1913 National Game: Borders white, cream, tan?

[GregMitch34]

I've seen this (playing) card with varying shades on the large borders--from off-white to dark cream, even in high grades. In fact, I just saw a Gem that was cream-to-almost light tan. Do they vary that much and if so why? If suppose to be white should that Gem not be a Gem? Or perhaps these cards started out with slightly darker borders that go white over years of exposure?

[Leon]

They don't vary a whole lot in my experience. There are a ton of fakes that fool experienced collectors and dealers. I remember a few years ago at the National, I saw a fake one being sold...I was 100% sure, no doubt. I never could convince the dealer it wasn't real. It wasn't. Just imagine a deck of playing cards that is 100 yrs old. They start out fairly white and turn a bit cream colored over time, with age. But they don't turn "grainy" looking like the reprints and they don't turn brown'ish like some reprints. The course grainy look is the dead giveaway to them being reprints....some are better than others though. .Check out this link to see the grainy look I speak of.....This is what they should look like.....(my 2 types)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1913-TOM-BAR...item2eb6ad68d5

[drcy]

There may be some variation to aging, toning, but I'd be suspect of darker cream. I've seen fakes that were brown/dark sepia. Other than dirt/crime/toning, the front borders should be close to white.

The real versus fake cards are easy to identify, because of the rounded corners that were uniformly factory cut across the issues. The fakes and reprints will usually to almost always have different corners-- hand cut, different size/angle etc. in short, compare the corners to real cards. Also, if the sides are trimmed on a real one, this can be revealed on the smaller corners. And, of course, it would be near impossible to trim the corners deceptively.

This is the same with other factory cut round corner issues.

Realize, most baseball card forgers want quick money, an hourly wage. They don't want to spend time exactly duplicating rounded corners on a lesser value issue, when they can cut square corners on their paper cutter in 5 seconds. Even if, for whatever reason, they really wanted to exactly duplicate the corners, it would still be hard because the real cards were die cut in a factory 100 years ago.

And the up-and-up Frisch-esque National Game/Polo Grounds reprints I've seen also clearly have different corners when compared to authentic cards.

[GregMitch34]

Leon, the two cards you posted look pretty "creamy" and not "off-white." I wonder if they didn't even start at what I'd call "off-white."

The "Gem" card I have does not appear fake in any way. I just found a bit odd that it got "Gem" with very creamy borders...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Leon, the two cards you posted look pretty "creamy" and not "off-white." I wonder if they didn't even start at what I'd call "off-white."

The "Gem" card I have does not appear fake in any way. I just found a bit odd that it got "Gem" with very creamy borders...

I think creamy borders and off white borders are kind of similar (semantics). I could easily see a creamy bordered card still being Gem. This one (in link) is mint and looks to have sort of creamy, off white borders. I think time will do that to cards (paper) even when they are pristine otherwise.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1913-Tom-Bar...item35c7c9697d

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[Bocabirdman]

Bo Derek was still deemed a TEN even though her coloration was affected by exposure to the sun