1952 TOPPS Hi #'s mixed in with 1953 TOPPS 1st Series cards.....True or False ?

[tedzan]

In a current Net54 thread post, I noted that TOPPS intermixed 1952 High numbers with 1953 (1st series) cards in their initial release in the Spring of 1953 (Quote below).

I received an email from a Net54 member telling me this never happened. I chose not to argue with him. So, my question to you all (particularly you old dudes....like me)
Do you recall opening the blue TOPPS wax-packs in the Spring of 1953, and finding 1952 Hi #'s, or a combination of these 1952 cards with 1953 (Lo #) cards ?



. .

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi John

An old friend of mine grew up in the Great Smoky Mountain region of North Carolina, and he collected 1952 and 1953 TOPPS cards when he was a youngster.

Furthermore, he remembers opening up 1953 TOPPS wax-packs which also had 1952 TOPPS Hi #'s mixed in with 1953 TOPPS cards.

Apparently, the TOPPS Co. had lots of left over 1952 Hi #'s which they stuffed into the 1953 wax-packs in the Spring of 1953.

So, it is possible that the Mantle card you alluded to could have been a 1952 card.

TED Z

T206 Reference
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[savedfrommyspokes]

A collection from a family friend in GA I viewed a few years ago was heavy with 1st series, lower numbered 1953 Topps cards, including 2 Mantle cards. However, there were no high numbered 1952 Topps cards in his collection which had remained untouched since the mid-50s until I viewed the cards.

[JRumierz]

I have a 1952 Topps carrying Buck Barker's notation that it was purchased in 1953 by him. Owen Ricker reported 50 years ago that he bought mixed '52 and '53 in packs in Western Canada. That's not to say that Topps did this routinely.
Local wholesalers to "Dime Stores" would take warehouse clearances and repackaged them for sale locally. I bought 3rd Series '52 25 in a cellophane "pack" for a 10C in '61. The '54-'55 Topps Hockey was sold again in cellophane packaging 25 for a dime in 1957-8. Jay Barry reported buying complete sets of '51 Red and Blue backs in Detroit Dime Stores much after 1951.
Much went on that isn't formally documented like Sivercup bread putting 1955 Topps in their loaves (Detroit). Even as a kid I was disappointed that the card inside was identical to the Bubble Gum card.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JRumierz

I have a 1952 Topps carrying Buck Barker's notation that it was purchased in 1953 by him. Owen Ricker reported 50 years ago that he bought mixed '52 and '53 in packs in Western Canada. That's not to say that Topps did this routinely.
Local wholesalers to "Dime Stores" would take warehouse clearances and repackaged them for sale locally. I bought 3rd Series '52 25 in a cellophane "pack" for a 10C in '61. The '54-'55 Topps Hockey was sold again in cellophane packaging 25 for a dime in 1957-8. Jay Barry reported buying complete sets of '51 Red and Blue backs in Detroit Dime Stores much after 1951.
Much went on that isn't formally documented like Sivercup bread putting 1955 Topps in their loaves (Detroit). Even as a kid I was disappointed that the card inside was identical to the Bubble Gum card.

Hey John
Good to see you posting and thanks for the info. You are a great reason to go to the national, for me, but my guess is I wait till next year in Chicago.

For anyone that doesn't know, John, imo has more knowledge of baseball cards than almost anyone I know. And I know a few people. And if you want to chat with him he will be the first table when you walk in the National, always.
.
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by JRumierz

I have a 1952 Topps carrying Buck Barker's notation that it was purchased in 1953 by him. Owen Ricker reported 50 years ago that he bought mixed '52 and '53 in packs in Western Canada. That's not to say that Topps did this routinely.
Local wholesalers to "Dime Stores" would take warehouse clearances and repackaged them for sale locally. I bought 3rd Series '52 25 in a cellophane "pack" for a 10C in '61. The '54-'55 Topps Hockey was sold again in cellophane packaging 25 for a dime in 1957-8. Jay Barry reported buying complete sets of '51 Red and Blue backs in Detroit Dime Stores much after 1951.
Much went on that isn't formally documented like Sivercup bread putting 1955 Topps in their loaves (Detroit). Even as a kid I was disappointed that the card inside was identical to the Bubble Gum card.

Thanks John for chiming in with your extensive knowledge.

You have confirmed what my old time buddy, Ralph, from the Smoky Mountains (NC) told me many years ago regarding TOPPS intermixing '52T Hi #'s in wax-packs containing
their 1st series 1953 cards in the Spring of 1953.

Looking forward to seeing you at the National next month.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jbsports33]

Ted - not to my knowledge have I ever seen that happen, but maybe no one knows now - anyways hope you are well!

and see you are in Maine as well - have you thought about doing the Boston Show

Jimmy

[GasHouseGang]

I feel like John and Ted Z should write down a lot of this hobby lore and what they personally experienced before it's all forgotten and lost to the ages. I appreciate how many things Ted has posted about as someone that was there when many of the early Topps, Bowman, Bond Bread, etc. were issued. John needs to chime in on these things too when he has the chance. I see he's only posted 9 times. I think we need to hear more from these hobby veterans.

[ksfarmboy]

That would have been cool to get both Mathew’s cards in one pack if he was your hero.

[parkerj33]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks John for chiming in with your extensive knowledge.

You have confirmed what my old time buddy, Ralph, from the Smoky Mountains (NC) told me many years ago regarding TOPPS intermixing '52T Hi #'s in wax-packs containing
their 1st series 1953 cards in the Spring of 1953.

Looking forward to seeing you at the National next month.



TED Z

T206 Reference
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Ted, it wasn't clear to me in John's post whether his friend that bought 53s with 52s in western canada actually had them in blue 53 was packs or if they were a repacked cellophane deal done by some distributor. Its a subtle nuance, and I am understanding your contention that your friend ralph DID find blue 53 waxers with the 52 hi# in them.

- jp

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by parkerj33

Ted, it wasn't clear to me in John's post whether his friend that bought 53s with 52s in western canada actually had them in blue 53 was packs or if they were a repacked cellophane deal done by some distributor. Its a subtle nuance, and I am understanding your contention that your friend ralph DID find blue 53 waxers with the 52 hi# in them.

- jp

Hi Jim

I just reviewed John's post, and I know what you are asking. I will email John for more information regarding this.

My conversation (52/53 TOPPS) with my friend Ralph was 40 years ago. Ralph passed away 8 years ago, otherwise
I would have contacted him regarding whether he was pulling cards from wax-packs or the cellophane packs.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Lorewalker]

Hi Ted,

No personal experience of opening 53s and pulling 52s but I did find this post below very interesting as well as the two comments.

Seems like Topps used a blue and red wrapper for high numbers for 1952 and then made a few changes and used them for 1953 5 cent packs. Certainly would seem possible that 52 highs could have been included in the early series for 53 given the wrapper tie between the two years.

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2010...rapped-up.html

Chase

[tedzan]

Thanks to all who have participated with their inputs on this topic.

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Hi Ted,

No personal experience of opening 53s and pulling 52s but I did find this post below very interesting as well as the two comments.

Seems like Topps used a blue and red wrapper for high numbers for 1952 and then made a few changes and used them for 1953 5 cent packs. Certainly would seem possible that 52 highs could have been included in the early series for 53 given the wrapper tie between the two years.

Chase

Chase

It's my understanding that most areas in the Pacific coast and Northwest did not get 1952 Hi #'s in the Fall of 1952. In fact, some areas out your way in California
only got the 1st series (cards #1-80) in the Spring/Summer of 1952.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[toppcat]

Not definitive, but the 1953 wrappers greatly resembled the 1952 high number wrappers as both had red and blue color schemes. A possible source for the 52/53 mixed pack stories.

http://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2013...is-not-53.html

EDIT-I see this link was posted already.

[steve B]

It sounds like a very topps thing to do.

On the other hand, western Canada?
in 78 we took a trip across the country driving and mostly camping. In the Canadian part of Glacier park, they had cards! 1977 OPC... I commented on how it was cool to get the previous years cards, and the clerk was confused.
"Last years? But they just came in a couple days ago"

So I have no problem thinking that Topps sold mixed packs in 53 and /or that they were just getting around to sending the 52s to the western Canada distributor.

[Seven]

This thread has been a fascinating read so far. To my knowledge (which is amateur at best, compared to some of the minds in this thread) weren't there an overwhelming amount of 1952 Topps, left over? I could easily see the scenario that Ted outlined originally happening. Topps was in it's infancy, thye might have viewed it as a way to cut some of their inventory.

Eagerly waiting to see if any more stories trickle in. I agree with David, you gentlemen should definitely write a book!

- James

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey John
Good to see you posting and thanks for the info. You are a great reason to go to the national, for me, but my guess is I wait till next year in Chicago.

For anyone that doesn't know, John, imo has more knowledge of baseball cards than almost anyone I know. And I know a few people. And if you want to chat with him he will be the first table when you walk in the National, always.
.
.

I second Leon's words above about John's knowledge of of ALL sports cards. His memory is off the charts. I have known John since the early 70's and he can tell me trades we made in 1973 that I have no recollection of or if I even collected those sets then!

He is always willing to discuss any sets you have a question about. Also his collection is second to none! Just don't try to get anything out of his collection. It won't happen!

[Clutch-Hitter]

enigma1132 on EBay? If so, I’ve bought from him many times. I like browsing his and kryvintage’s stuff.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by steve B

It sounds like a very topps thing to do.

On the other hand, western Canada?
in 78 we took a trip across the country driving and mostly camping. In the Canadian part of Glacier park, they had cards! 1977 OPC... I commented on how it was cool to get the previous years cards, and the clerk was confused.
"Last years? But they just came in a couple days ago"

So I have no problem thinking that Topps sold mixed packs in 53 and /or that they were just getting around to sending the 52s to the western Canada distributor.

There's definite Northern US/Southern Canadian bleed through with early Topps sets, even back to 1949's X-Ray Roundup. Some legit, some probably "black market" sales.

I lean against mixed packs simply for marketing and contractual concerns but as I have learned with Topps, you never know, and even if you do, you don't.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

I second Leon's words above about John's knowledge of of ALL sports cards. His memory is off the charts. I have known John since the early 70's and he can tell me trades we made in 1973 that I have no recollection of or if I even collected those sets then!

He is always willing to discuss any sets you have a question about. Also his collection is second to none! Just don't try to get anything out of his collection. It won't happen!

Knowing John (hi John) a little bit, that has never even crossed my mind (seriously).
.

[Steve_NY]

While I don't respond 100% of the time, it's always a pleasure to see such postings that include responses from long-time collectors. You guys really rock.

To remember opening packs in the 50s is just so amazing. I am getting on in years too (just 73) and remember opening packs in the early 60s, so I always appreciate your input.

Here's one of my questions that I have not answered yet: I have a pack of 1948 Leaf that is in a generic wrapper. My theory is that it is a football pack but I saw an auction a while back that called it a baseball pack, obviously to sell it for a higher price and it was graded I think. I have also heard from someone that when they opened such generic packs, some were baseball and some were football. Can anyone confirm or deny such information?

Stop by to say hi at the National, as I am easy to remember where I set up: 6 booths in the main entrance at Booth 1100.

Lastly, Thanks again for all of the great information over the years. Leon, you also deserve alot of the credit too!!

Steve_NY
DynamicTwo@aol.com

[tedzan]

Hi Steve

Regarding your question.....
"Here's one of my questions that I have not answered yet: I have a pack of 1948 Leaf that is in a generic wrapper. My theory is that it is a football pack but I saw an auction a while back that called it a baseball pack, obviously to sell it for a higher price and it was graded I think. I have also heard from someone that when they opened such generic packs, some were baseball and some were football. Can anyone confirm or deny such information?"


Post a scan of this LEAF wrapper, and perhaps I can answer your question.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[gnuche]

I had similar situation as John. A local mom and pop store was taking cards from somewhere(maybe one of his own kids?) and was putting them in any wrapper he could find. I was buying packs of baseball cards that had World on wheels and Davy Crockett cards in them. Obviously they didn't come from Topps that way.

[T205 GB]

Think of all the packs through the years that have had errors, wrong backs/fronts for series, wrong backs/fronts for sport, wrong issues, wrong series, and so on inserted into the pack. It happens a lot today so I am sure it happened in the past as well. I believe there was some Topps issues in the mid 70's that had wrong cards issued in the packs with the correct ones. I want to say 76-77? May be another isolated incident like the 50's cards. Maybe a person at Topps said the hell with it and loaded up their last 52's in the packaging machine with the new 53's and let it rip. Probably thought they were helping Topps make money instead of disposing of them. Add now that they may have went to Canada to be distributed and someone is not going to care about a case or two of cards. You can figure the average American sentiment in the early 50's was FU to every country other than America. Very plausible scenario but without real proof we only have a guess.

Anyone ever think the store owners would open and then reseal the packs with other cards so they could keep the best ones?

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Think of all the packs through the years that have had errors, wrong backs/fronts for series, wrong backs/fronts for sport, wrong issues, wrong series, and so on inserted into the pack. It happens a lot today so I am sure it happened in the past as well. I believe there was some Topps issues in the mid 70's that had wrong cards issued in the packs with the correct ones. I want to say 76-77? May be another isolated incident like the 50's cards. Maybe a person at Topps said the hell with it and loaded up their last 52's in the packaging machine with the new 53's and let it rip. Probably thought they were helping Topps make money instead of disposing of them. Add now that they may have went to Canada to be distributed and someone is not going to care about a case or two of cards. You can figure the average American sentiment in the early 50's was FU to every country other than America. Very plausible scenario but without real proof we only have a guess.

Anyone ever think the store owners would open and then reseal the packs with other cards so they could keep the best ones?

I don’t think store owners were interested in the baseball cards. They were just trying to make a living. So, no,to open &resealing packs to get the best cards.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

enigma1132 on EBay? If so, I’ve bought from him many times. I like browsing his and kryvintage’s stuff.

I enjoy looking at John’s stuff on ebay as well! He has great stuff most other sellers just don’t offer!

Coincidentally I am kryvintage in ebay. Thanks for checking out my stuff as well!