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  #101  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:28 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, I didn't realize she was his spiritual advisor, and one of the most important persons in his life and in the lives of his family members.

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  #102  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:40 PM
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Posted By: sagard

I wish people would quit trying to buy into the character assassination of either of these men. After the election we have a far more honorable leader than we've seen since Bush I.

Evaluate how each of these men are making decisions. Measure whose approach to foreign policy you believe in. Evaluate each man's energy proposals. Study whether you believe in the supply side economics or if you believe more tax cuts to the middle class would help the country.

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  #103  
Old 10-10-2008, 01:25 AM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

Back to the original question, I never thought purchasing very expensive items was superior financially to a plethora of less expensive but quality items. This includes during good economic times. I'm not aware that the returns on the very expensive are better, and it's much easier to sell the cheaper items. Plus, a plethora is a mini-diversification, which you'll appreciate when one item sells less than you expect but the next sells more. If the one that sells less is the only one you got, you won't like that.

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  #104  
Old 10-10-2008, 04:13 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Jim VB,

"God forbid. President"--exactly what I feal about Obama. She has more executive experience4 and would certainly come at the problems facing the country without the radical left mindset that Obama does.

Jay,

I too judge McCain and Obama by their picks as vp. Obama picks the most liberal guy in the senate next to he and the socialist senator from Massachusetts. McCain picks a movement conservative.

I am not wild about McCain but with Palin on board against two people I think represent everything about the exact opposite direction America should go, it is an easy decision who to vote for.

I think the election is over. Its the radical left by 8 points or so and maybe 60 Dems in the Senate. As was said earlier though, ex the current economic news it would be a horserace.

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  #105  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:18 AM
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Posted By: Jay

See Jeff, you learn something new every day.

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  #106  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:01 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Like sarcasm and irony, Jay? I know, it's just a fact -- why let it get in the way of a good argument.

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  #107  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:23 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Wait a minute, Obama sat in a Christian church for 20 years????

I thought he wuz a scaaaarrrrryyyyyy moooooslim?????

I'm so confused now.

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  #108  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:35 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dan,

No--not a scary Muslim.

He just had a "spiritual mentor" and a "moral compass" a pastor who is racist, blames the U.S. for the 9/11 attacks and repeatedly has said "GD America".

Great mentor and moral compass for Obama.

And he is not nearly as dangerous as Ayers.

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  #109  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:38 AM
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Posted By: peter ullman

I look forward to low-mid grade card prices declining so that I may purchase more...especially those that have become way overpriced the last few years...and out of my sensible reach.

Both candidates have blood on their hands...both are imperfect...neither one is awe inspiring...as I wish one were. And, yes...once again we are voting for the lesser of 2 evils...and what has already been said...evil will win.

So let's rebel against the 2 party system...vote for Ralph Nader...or a write in for Peter Chao!!

pete ullman

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  #110  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:55 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

To those who slam Obama's affiliation with Rev. Wright and who are in love with Palin--she has some pretty scary religious affiliations herself. There are many many videos on Youtube with her giving talks at her evangelical church about the Iraq war being a mandate from God, and even getting a blessing from a travelling pastor to protect her from witchcraft. Unlike Sen. Obama, Palin actually takes an active role in these videos. Some of the things that Palin's pastor(s) say are on par, or even worse to that what Rev. Wright said. One difference though, Palin takes an active role in it.

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  #111  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:01 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

James,

Thats right out of the Daily Kos/moveon.org playbook--nice going.

Difference is a lifelong spiritual mentor versus one grainy video.

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  #112  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:03 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

Ha Ha! Explain it all you want. It's more of a lifelong pattern than Obama's association. Whatever gets you through the day though.

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  #113  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:06 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Ha Ha yourself--jokes on you--

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  #114  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:13 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

The ship is sinking Jim!

On to the topic though. I used to be able to find oodles of R305 Tattoo Orbit on ebay or at shows. It just doesn't happen anymore. I've also gone to BST and no one can help. I wish I could afford to drop $6000 for a near set....but that's not working either. Just have to scour the major auctions and hope for the best.

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  #115  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:14 AM
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

We might see Bruce's DOW6300 this morning before NOON! Still a long ways to go though..................

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  #116  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:21 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

The ship is sinking--I agree.

Voters blaming Repubs and by association McCain for economic situation. He can't come back. Hopefully a strong Reagan conservative will emerge by 2012 and not a middle of the roader like McCain

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  #117  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:23 AM
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Posted By: Richard Simon

I think we need Obama to win so Sarah Palin can go back to Alaska and keep that eye of hers on Russia that she always has done, ya boys know what I mean? (wink,wink). Hope she does that 18 hours a day and gets her hubby to pick up those other 6 hours. I think it is much more important for those 2 to guard our Northern borders than for her to be VP.
==

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  #118  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:25 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

I've always contended and still contend that McCain was a superior candidate to Bush in 2000. We would be so much better off than the current occupant. Unfortunately, one cannot reverse time, and it seems day-by-day the election is passing McCain by. It's a shame too, if it weren't for right-wing talk radio like Limbaugh sabotaging McCain's candidacy in 2000, the world could be a lot better off.

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  #119  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:28 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

OOOh James.

Rush is one of my heroes and a great American...how dare you.

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  #120  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:29 AM
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Posted By: Anonymous

Couple of things:

1. Someone posted that McCain hired Karl Rove - I don't think that is true. He hired someone that used to work for Karl Rove.

2. A lot of the comments expressed show just why we end up with elected officials that are basically not the best we should hope for. Obama isn't a Muslim. Did he attend the church he did for some non-religious (ie political)reasons? Perhaps, but does his pastor saying some controversial things make him unqualified....I don't think so. To me the whole story that should be reported is Obama's start in politics - the choices that he's made to further his political career, and what exactly took place when he won his first election by keeping some oppontents off the ballot - that would tell us much more about the man.

3. The USA sure as heck should be hoping for better days ahead!! I love our country, but we are kidding ourselves if we don't think that we've lost ground over the past 8 years.

4. The attacks on Sarah Palin are just as bad as those on Obama. She has a short record, fair enough - so does Obama. She comes from a small rural state - fair enough. Then attack her positions and look at her judgement. From what I know, she has shown some decent judgement in Alaska - she went against her party on a bill that basically discriminated against gays. She is balancing the budget. She stood up for her state against oil companies AND reached a reasonable settlement that benefited both sides. I agree she gave a poor interview. But I wouldn't want to be judged by one or two bad days.

5, It amazes me that no one is running for office on some kind of common sense platform. Balance the budget. Yes some rich and upper income people will pay more taxes. And Yes, everyone must pay some taxes - no matter how little. Yes social spending will be cut. Yes government employees will have pay freezes and cuts. Yes the military will have cuts. Yes no one will be happy with all the decisions that go along with this. yes social security will be addressed and modified. And yes some tough choices will be made in government provided medical care, especially at the end of life.

Don't want to be negative, but it seems to a certain extent that we've gone from being a country where when a man found himself "down and out" it was expected that he'd pick himself back up.....to a country that elects whomever promises the most to that down and out guy for free (along with anyone within 3 income brackets).

Along with that, the fact that 1/2 people pay no taxes is a terrible thing IMO. My father made very little money. He paid Federal income taxes his entire working life....He never expected anything from the government. We had a roof over our heads and food on the table (but not always in the refrigerator as my dad liked to say - ie we scraped by sometimes). I just don't understand the way that some people think that if you don't have everything you might want, that the government should be providing.

It is time for a change - I just wish we had Colin Powell running to be the first African American president - as he is a self proclaimed fiscal conservative. And I trust him. Personally I think that McCain will be just as ineffective as Bush. Obama has a chance to be a really good president, but we really know very little about his judgement and core values. But I think the majority of American's will chance it and go for Obama. And lets all hope that he does a good job (which is different than he achieves all his idealogical objectives).

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  #121  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:32 AM
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Posted By: sagard

It seems like many who post so inteligently and rationally about cards, have an unnatural hatred of an Obama presidency. The guy may be liberal but he is undeniably intelligent and the guy is willing to flip/flop when he is wrong about an issue without looking like that dufus Kerry. See the drilling issue and his taxation policy if we are in recession for examples.

However all McCain has to do to win is demonstrate that he is a fiscal conservative and will do a better job than Obama with the economy. In order to do that he needs to separate himself from the current admin's "borrow and spend" approach which as added literally trillions to our kid's debts. He could also create an energy policy that is far more realistic, yet still very aggressive in reducing our nation's dependence on oil.

He needs to get passionate and state how he is going to pay (not borrow from China) for his wars and ask the American public to contribute far more than Bush asked us to.

I think McCain from '00 would be the best candidate for our country, but he hasn't done enough to show me that man still exists. Right now he is coming off as a typical spend happy Republican.

Bottom line is if McCain wants to win he needs to focus on our country, not Obama. Then he will have a lot better chance at getting those in the middle to forgive him for his associations with the current admin.

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  #122  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:36 AM
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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

While I have tried to refrain from interjecting my political views on a baseball chat board, I can no longer restrain myself.

While there are a plethora of important issues that face our society, on one of particular importance, the economy, Obama is trying to rewrite economic theory. In what way? I am aware of no economist who will opine that a tax increase in terrible economic times will accomplish anything except make matters worse. All the more so when the tax increase is targeted at the sector of society that takes the majority of the risks and provides the majority of the capital. This is economic reality, period, and it runs head on into the conventional liberal wisdom that it is okay to sock it to the wealthy, because doing so will not impact their decisions on how much risk to take, new ventures to start or indeed whether to take their business offshore.

In regard to Joe Biden's lament that it is unpatriotic for companies to take their business offshore, that remark in my view is the single most stupid comment I have heard on the campaign trail in my lifetime. So Joe, what do you propose, we solve our economic problems by mass mailing of American flags to corporate America? Capitalism works through economic incentive. Take it away, and you depress economic activity. It has been reported that the USA has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. So what does Obama want to do to solve our economic problems -- increase it!! His election, coupled with Democratic control of the House and Senate, can be described as nothing less than economic armageddon. And as to Joe Biden, well Joe, the last system that premised its economic principles on patriotism was something called communism.

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  #123  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:40 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

Jim,

I also find Rush to be an entertaining, sometimes informative, opinion shaper. With that said, during the 2000 election Limbaugh spent month after month mocking and parodying a true hero in McCain. I'm voting for Obama, but I really like what McCain is about. McCain has gotten a lot of bad advice from his selection of a VP, to sticking to a bad Iraq policy (he would have handled it better than Bush) and the economy. Palin on the other hand is a lightweight...people are tuning her out.

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  #124  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:42 AM
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Posted By: Jim VB

First,

<<She has more executive experience4 and would certainly come at the problems facing the country without the radical left mindset that Obama does.>>

She is a mental lightweight. She could not list one newspaper or magazine she reads. She could not name one initiative McCain had taken in his years in Congress. She couldn't specify one Supreme Court decision she had ever disagreed with (except, of course, Roe v. Wade). These aren't "gotcha" questions. They are a window into her intellect and inquisitiveness. She basically refused to answer any debate questions, opting instead, to run through her talking points.

I would not hire her as my administrative assistant, and I bet you wouldn't either. There were plenty of other candidates for this job who were much more qualified.




Second, and most importantly, your use of Obama's middle name is pejorative, and you know it. There is plenty to attack him on without using fear mongering racism. His health care plan IS unworkable. His experience IS limited. Attack his plan. Attack his proposals. Attack his voting record. But don't try to scare people by using his middle name. You're smarter than that.

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  #125  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:48 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

Hussein means "good, small handsome one" in Arabic. While I don't find Obama handsome, it's not a bad middle name to have

James

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  #126  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:48 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Corey, Obama has said that the tax increase on the wealthiest Americans may have to be put off until the ship is righted. IMO when it comes to the economy Obama will handle that much better...I fear that John McCain will appoint Phil Gramm as treasury secretary which will just mean more of the same that got us into this trouble...you know it's all in our heads and we're just a bunch of whiners.

And there's still this myth that persists that Ronald Reagan never raised taxes -he did so on more than one occasion and it was always in the interest of keeping the economy running smoothly..these neo-cons running the country now have run it into the ground with their economic and foreign policy decisions. Why anyone would want to give them another 4 years in office is beyond me.

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  #127  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:51 AM
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Posted By: Joe D.

Well now....

I have decided that I am not voting Republican and I am not voting Democratic

when I get in that voting booth - I am going to vote 'present'.


Thats okay right?
Faced with an important decision to make - and just, well, vote present?


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  #128  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:58 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Corey, of course you're right. When Barry was lectured during a Democratic debate that cutting capital gains taxes has actually raised revenue and raising the tax has lowered revenue in the past, he just prattled on about how the fat cats on Wall Street are not paying their share.

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  #129  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:58 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

As a religious man, if McCain wins, I will pray fervently everyday for his health. The prospect of a Palin presidency causes me to shutter.

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  #130  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:01 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I know you're taking a dig at Obama there Joe, but perhaps you could educate yourself on why Illinois lawmakers have the option to vote present on bills in their legislature.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18348437

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  #131  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:03 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Why are conservatives afraid to go back to the tax rates held in the Clinton years?

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  #132  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:03 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, good article about Tony Rezko's financial dealings with Barry while Rezko was under federal investigation. Now that's the kind of change I'm looking forward to.

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  #133  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:07 AM
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Posted By: Richard Simon

Amazing that people on this board can state that a drug addict is their hero.
He is a pompous hate mongering drug addict. And if you have been a drug addict in the past, you can easily slip and return to those habits.
==

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  #134  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:07 AM
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

I agree that Palin is probably unqualified for where she finds herself. I find it odd though that people are pushing her lack of meeting foreign dignitaries as something that makes her unqualified.

As a mayor of a small town and governor of Alaska, those were not her job. She wasn't in the position of having to meet them. As mayor & governor, she wasn't in the position of having to study Supreme Court decisions, unless, of course, they affected her job. I don't think everyone has fascination with the Supreme court and I'd bet most people here would be hard-pressed to name 5 of the Justices to begin with....

I think another problem she faces is that all the 'handlers' probably have her scared to death to say anything about anything. She absolutely sucked in the Katie Couric interview. Plain & simple. She was probably also calculating on what people would say if she said 'Newsweek', or 'Wall Street Journal' or etc. I can't believe she couldn't rattle off even some miniscule lie about some paper. If so, then she DOES need to go home.

She did a fantastic job in the debate. Even watching NBC, they had 3 female commentators on after the debate and all 3 said she won--2 of which were democrats.

McCain did a terrible disservice to himself in giving in to whomever picked Sara Palin. It wasn't him. With Tim Kane or Mitt Romney, he'd have had a much better chance.

I think the statement above about McCain focusing on issues, not Obama, is the best solution. That's the only way he can win. Although there are a myriad of issues in Obama's past like Wright, Flagler, Tony Resco, Ayers, the fact that NO ONE from his days in college will comment on him nor are any of his papers available, etc, McCain CANNOT win with that argument. People are starry-eyed when discussing Obama. They see past all the questions.

At this point, I don't see McCain with a chance to win. I can only hope that Obama flip flops like someone says on the tax issues.......whoever wins is going to have an incredibly tough job ahead of them..........

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  #135  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:13 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jeff, Tony Rezko is fair game and I'm a bit surprised that McCain hasn't been hitting harder on this issue than he has on Bill Ayers...nobody gives a crap about a 60's radical hippie. Far more to be found though in shady real estate deals. There probably isn't a Chicago politician alive that hasn't had some kind of shady business...going after Obama on a clear cut deal with a crook I think would stick more than some loose association with a 60's radical.

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  #136  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:14 AM
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Posted By: James Feagin

Tom,

I agree with so much of what you said, aside from Romney helping McCain to win. There is a simple dynamic there that would have kept the conservative south at home on election day---Romney's religion.

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  #137  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:15 AM
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Posted By: Jim VB

<<Amazing that people on this board can state that a drug addict is their hero.
He is a pompous hate mongering drug addict. And if you have been a drug addict in the past, you can easily slip and return to those habits.>>

Richard,

You should not ever, talk about President Bush in that manner... Oh... Did you mean Rush... Or Obama... or Cindy McCain.


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  #138  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:15 AM
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Posted By: sagard

Obama already has mentioned he won't be recinding the Bush tax cuts if the economy is in recesssion or trouble. He has mentioned that he will go forward with his tax cuts for the middle class either way. He has also mentioned that his unrealistic (my word) spending programs are very likely going to have to wait if he is elected.

The guys thinks about his decisions and is willing to adjust his stance. I realize it may be flip/flopping to some, but to me it shows a far better decision making process than we have seen from our leadership in YEARS.

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  #139  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:18 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't get it? Who is the former drug addict?

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  #140  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:21 AM
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Posted By: Joe D.

"I know you're taking a dig at Obama there Joe, but perhaps you could educate yourself on why Illinois lawmakers have the option to vote present on bills in their legislature."


I'd love to educate myself - but I don't think I am smart enough to know how to click on the link.

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  #141  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:22 AM
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

the article on voting 'present'. That's a bunch of crap if I ever heard it. Take a stance. Someone needs to disconnect all those little yellow 'present' buttons. Do we pay people to sit on their hands? Don't dilly dally around so you don't have a voting record for anyone to criticize. Same crap as saying when life begins is above your 'pay grade'. Have an opinion. Grow a pair. If you believe it's at birth or at conception or somewhere in between, spit it out.....

I agree the Tony Resko(sp?) think is far stickier than the Ayers thing.....

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  #142  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:27 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- Rush Limbaugh was a drug addict. He was hooked on painkillers.

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  #143  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:27 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Fine then Joe, don't educate yourself.

And Tom, I agree the present vote should be done away with, but that's for Illinois voters to worry about, but to disparage someone for using a political tool that's been given to them is disingenuous to say the least. It's like using someone's vote in congress against them without knowing what's attached to that bill that made them want to vote against it.

If we want real reform in this country then we'll demand that bills don't have anything attached to them....a bill has to stand on its own. A lot of bad crap gets passed through congress because someone attaches their pet project to it in order to get enough votes to pass. You want federal money for your bridge to nowhwere? Put it in an appropriations bill.

edited to add: The outright bribery that took place in congress last week to pass the bailout bill should be criminal. Someone sold their vote on that bill for 6 million dollars worth of wooden arrows. Makes me want to puke.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:31 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, I'm sure you'd also agree that Obama's constant championing of disenfranchised voters -- but then to have won his first election by doing the very same thing to his opponents -- is also disingenuous.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:33 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Ahhh...got it Barry. I thought we were talking about politicians, but now I recall Jim saying Rush was his hero.

I don't see why a former drug addict can't be someone's hero - especially if that person has overcome that addiction.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:35 AM
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Disingenuous then. 'Present' is B.S. The article you posted said that he voted 'present' even on things he supported????? Ever hear of 'YES' Barry (green one.........). Let's stick the 'Present' button in the Supreme Court. 3 for, 3 against, 3 present.

Both candidates have MAJOR blood on their hands on this banking/finacial bailout crap. Take a look at the top 10 campaign contributors to both candidates and it's a who's who of Wall Street. Not $5 and $10K either.
BIG coin..........

And I agree completely that SOMEONE should have the balls to be able to scrap all this crap that gets tacked on to these bills. That's one of the reasons why we've hocked our country to the Asians & Europeans. Pretty soon we're gonna get a margin call.

(disclaimer: I am happy, however, the AMT is getting the boot)

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:36 AM
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Nice one on the Rush=Drug addict. I like Rush but lost a lot of respect through that ordeal...........

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:38 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Yes I would Jeff....like I said you're not going to find a clean Chicago politician. I still think he will be better for America than John McCain who also has a lot of moral failings in his life...this campaign being one of them. I sorely miss the John McCain of 2000 and to have surrounded himself with the same people who put out the racist smears against him in South Carolina - those same people who he said should have their own place in Hell is sad. If he'd just picked someone other than Palin as his running mate he may have gotten my vote...although his current plan for buying up bad mortgages is not my cup of tea.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:42 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Tom, I agree on the present button...Illinois should dispense with it, but since I don't live there I really don't give a crap. Nebraska's so called non-partisan unicameral is enough to drive a person crazy as it is.

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Old 10-10-2008, 09:44 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yeah, with all respect to the medium, I'd have a hard time counting as a hero any radio host.

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