Interesting Story

[gnaz01]

OK, just so everyone knows, I am not promoting any site here or any other agenda, I just thought this was an interesting read about the alphbet gang :

http://www.autographalert.com/psadnacritique.pdf

Thoughts??

[tcdyess]

Very interesting article, thanks for posting.

[sayhey24]

Very interesting and scary about the laser copies. But if the writer is so questioning of letters of authenticity, why does he so blindly believe the letters about the Kobe and Favre pieces being signed before eyewitnesses? How do we know that those letters are true?

Greg

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

Very interesting and scary about the laser copies. But if the writer is so questioning of letters of authenticity, why does he so blindly believe the letters about the Kobe and Favre pieces being signed before eyewitnesses? How do we know that those letters are true?

Greg

I may have missed something in all these years but except for Ted Williams' son, nobody has questioned authenticity when a player forms his own company to authenticate his autographs as Favre did and nobody has questioned UD about authenticity.
If I am wrong here, please post it.

[thenavarro]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I may have missed something in all these years but except for Ted Williams' son, nobody has questioned authenticity when a player forms his own company to authenticate his autographs as Favre did and nobody has questioned UD about authenticity.
If I am wrong here, please post it.

If I remember correctly, the same book that called into question Upper Deck's multlple press runs of earlier year cards (IE Ken Griffey Jr.'s rookie card), also called into question Upper Deck Authenticated. I don't know if it's just rumor or not, but I have also heard that Upper Deck had rolls of their UDA authentication holograms stolen in the 90's. Additionally, it wouldn't be hard at all to take a real UDA jersey such as that Kobe, remove the real signed "number" from the back to use on a different jersey or to use in a "sting" (I'm not implying that was what happened here but it definitely at least needs to be considered), and have a replacement bogus signed number put in it's place. Just because jerseys are purported to be UDA pieces, they might in fact not be, at least the signature portions. Additionally, at least a couple if not more of UD's custom cuts have been called into question for good reason,

Willie Mays' Say Hey foundation comes to mind as a player who's hologrammed autograph has often been called into question. Brett Bro's, who had legit George Brett signings for years, have now been called into question because of a batch of autographs, that look nothing like previous George Brett autos , that they purportedly sent back to fill customers paid requests in late 2011

Those are the ones that seem to quickly come to memory. I'm sure I have more in my memory bank but it's not coming to me right now. Trying to recover from playing in my first 5 on 5 basketball league in over 10 years tonight. My body is not what it used to be, although there is more of it, LOL

[thenavarro]

The creator of that pdf file has no clue regarding the Reagan autopen, or is ignoring the obvious. JSA is correct. It IS an autopen. Here's another one to show it:




The author makes some totally erroneous statements regarding the Reagan such as:

Erroneous statement : "An autopen signature is like a printed signature and is the same as printed text"

Fact: That is 100% incorrect. An autopen machine of that era holds a writing implement, IE, pen, marker, pencil, etc. and replicates the signature by using a matrix. The writing implement is held up and actually writes on the item that is receiving the autopen signature, it is NOT like printed text.

Erroneous statement "Autopens don't bleed through the paper"

Fact: Autopens quite frequently bleed through the paper because their is "ink", "marker", etc, being applied to an item. If the paper is porous enough for a human signature to bleed through, then an autopen signature done in the same type of ink, will bleed through as well.

Erroneous statement "Try printing with your printer, which is like the autopen process"

Fact: Printing with a printer is NOTHING like the autopen process

Erroneous statement "Things don't bleed through"

Fact: As indicated above, yes, autopens can bleed through, and frequently do.

Basically, the author's total analysis of the Reagan is wrong. I find it entertaining that he/she takes exception with the JSA rejection letter (which in a spirit of full disclosure does have several errors with it, but their conclusion is correct) when his/her analysis is full of similar type of inconsistencies . He/she let their bias against JSA, cloud their judgement on that item. Additionally, what proof does any of us have that every item that the writer claims was a copy, was in fact a copy?? I could take any item in my collection that I've had authenticated, post a story up on the web and say it was a copy and people would quote it as gospel. Autograph Alert has a very big axe to grind with PSA/DNA and JSA. You need to take EVERYTHING they say with a grain of salt.

I have no doubt that PSA/DNA and JSA frequently make mistakes. I've seen it with my own eyes and personally witnessed a lot of the politics of the autograph business, and it all involves around $$$, and Autograph Alert and it's contributors are not immune to their own questionable tactics when $$$ is involved.

If the author of the pdf can't even tell the difference between an autopen applied signature and a printed signature and/or believes they are the same as indicated with their erroneous statements, then how the heck are we to believe the rest of their analysis?? As mentioned in my post above, it's also possible the jersey number was switched out, but yet many believe the author. Does the author even know the difference between a laser copy and the originals. How do we know he/she actually didn't send the originals to get the certs? They would do themselves a big service if they would simply eliminate the portions of that pdf that apply to Reagan.

If someone blindly believes that story, then I can easily see how on the other hand there are those that blindly believe that PSA/DNA and JSA get it right every time (they don't and in my dealings with them, they've never claimed too).

Mike Navarro






Mike

[brownscollector78]

This is kind of why I try to stay away from autographed items, for the most part. With all the fakes and new technology...its just a crapshoot anymore

[RichardSimon]

It is not new technology here.
I would assume the alphabet guys were sent items, in plastic sheets, and did not even bother to remove them for a real examination. Since they were copy photos of real autographed photos they just slapped on a COA with no examination.
This was not new technology, this was just a copy photo made from an original autographed photo.
This story was originally posted on a now defunct website some time ago.
The site had the word gavel in it but I don't remember the full name of it.
There was much speculation at the time about the true ownership of the site but that has never been established.
The same test was applied to me. I received five photographs, each one in a plastic sheet. I removed the photos from the sheets and it was then apparent that two of them were copy photos of real autographed photos. I wrote out two letters of rejection for those and three COA's for the real ones. A few weeks later I received one more copy photo from the same person. I removed it from its plastic sheet and once again it was apparent that it was a copy photo. Once again I wrote out a rejection letter.
Some time later, I found the gavel website and read the story. I then posted my experience on my website, outlining the entire story. I had originally thought that the person who sent these to me had just been scammed.
Anytime these people want to pay me over $400 and run a test to see if I am doing my job, well feel free to go ahead and do it.
I feel I can make an educated guess as to who was behind this but since it is only a guess I won't post any names here.

[sycks22]

Just shows how little time they spend on authenticating the items. With all the technology they have wouldn't you think they'd know if it was a laser print?

[RichardSimon]

If they don't bother to take it out of the plastic sheet that it came in, then they won't know that it is a laser print. They are copy photos of authentically autographed photos, so just taking a quick glance will lead them to a conclusion that it is authentically signed. Taking it out of the sheet should make you immediately suspicious, then holding it under a light will clinch your suspicions.

[batsballsbases]

And the reason is as they say "Its All About The Benjamins"

[johnmh71]

PSA & JSA should pass on authenticating anything already in a frame. It appears that the desire to not tamper with the frame caused them to miss on the laser prints.

And they offered their opinion on the other two autos, which is what they were paid to do.