auction fees and the damage done

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

In case anyone is wondering, HA does provide details on how shipping and handling costs are calculated and offers an estimated shipping button that you can click near the bottom of every item listing.

It would be nice to take this further and have a button that showed total cost, including tax, shipping, and BP at the bottom of each lot description. I know taxes vary, but once you are logged in the auction site knows who you are and can be programmed to individualize the quote.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

When attending an auction keep in mind that the buyer's premium is used to enhance the customer experience. The buyer's premium is charged so buyers are comfortable during the time of auctions and so the auction can operate efficiently. The extra charge is always put to good use.

This is some of the more comical corporate bull!@#$ I've read in awhile.

My only objection to a BP is when A) it's used to try and mask what you're really paying and B) when the auction house lies that it is about anything except jacking their profit margin. There is nothing wrong with making more money if you can get people to pay it, but don't straight up lie that it's for my "comfort" during an online auction.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

It would be nice to take this further and have a button that showed total cost, including tax, shipping, and BP at the bottom of each lot description. I know taxes vary, but once you are logged in the auction site knows who you are and can be programmed to individualize the quote.

The grand total would be nice to see in one place and I like the idea of calculating the tax. The only issue I could see is winning multiple lots combining shipping in that case, but if you gave the total for that one lot knowing combined shipping would cost less, that would be a great start.

I really don't care to defend HA, when bidding on an item on the item page they do show you the amount with buyers premium, they give you the option to calculate shipping, and you should know your tax rate. Nothing on the cost for them should come as a surprise. That said, I wish all auction houses at least provided that all that info.

[Peter_Spaeth]

For at least the 1000th time on this site, the premium and what you call it are meaningless. I am willing to spend, say, $120 for a card, plus tax and shipping. If it's ebay, where ebay makes its cut from charging the seller a portion of the hammer price, I'll bid $120. If it's an auction house with a 20 percent "buyer's premium," I'll bid $100 and pay $120. It's the same thing. Rob has been fighting this for years, but never explains why, just rants and raves about buyer's premiums as if the buyer is being forced to pay more by the greedy auction house. He isn't. It's purely a matter of allocation between the auction house and the consignor.

The premium could be 30 percent, or 50 percent, or 90 percent. I don't care at all. The consignor is the one who should care, because they're only getting the hammer price.

If someone bidding in an auction in this day and age is so out of it that they don't realize a BP is going to be added to their bid, well, that's their funeral.

[Eric72]

Does Heritage charge a minimum BP of $29 per item…or…if a bidder wins multiple lots, is the total BP a minimum of $29?

[GeoPoto]

It is per lot. If you don't want to pay more than $30, don't bid more than $1. No combined BP.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[dmats33312]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

So how much should the OP have bid for the card in the first post if he was willing to shell out $3X to have the card added to his collection??

It’s in the terms of the auctions rules at any you go, it isn’t complicated

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For at least the 1000th time on this site, the premium and what you call it are meaningless. I am willing to spend, say, $120 for a card, plus tax and shipping. If it's ebay, where ebay makes its cut from charging the seller a portion of the hammer price, I'll bid $120. If it's an auction house with a 20 percent "buyer's premium," I'll bid $100 and pay $120. It's the same thing. Rob has been fighting this for years, but never explains why, just rants and raves about buyer's premiums as if the buyer is being forced to pay more by the greedy auction house. He isn't. It's purely a matter of allocation between the auction house and the consignor.

The premium could be 30 percent, or 50 percent, or 90 percent. I don't care at all. The consignor is the one who should care, because they're only getting the hammer price.

If someone bidding in an auction in this day and age is so out of it that they don't realize a BP is going to be added to their bid, well, that's their funeral.

Peter, you know the definition of insanity…. Just let it go, life is too short!!

[Casey2296]

Same economics is the reason you pay more per ounce for 8 oz of peanut butter compared to 32 oz of peanut butter.

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For at least the 1000th time on this site, the premium and what you call it are meaningless. I am willing to spend, say, $120 for a card, plus tax and shipping. If it's ebay, where ebay makes its cut from charging the seller a portion of the hammer price, I'll bid $120. If it's an auction house with a 20 percent "buyer's premium," I'll bid $100 and pay $120. It's the same thing. Rob has been fighting this for years, but never explains why, just rants and raves about buyer's premiums as if the buyer is being forced to pay more by the greedy auction house. He isn't. It's purely a matter of allocation between the auction house and the consignor.

The premium could be 30 percent, or 50 percent, or 90 percent. I don't care at all. The consignor is the one who should care, because they're only getting the hammer price.

If someone bidding in an auction in this day and age is so out of it that they don't realize a BP is going to be added to their bid, well, that's their funeral.

I do not understand why so many people have a hard time figuring out all of the fees. Unless the fees are not disclosed, then I have no idea why anyone complains. If you do not like their rules, then do not use that company. Simple as that.

[jefferyepayne]

Get in the habit of reading the rules each auction house publishes. It will tell you all you need to know about BPs, whether the auction house can bid on items themselves (many can!), minimum BP amounts, extra shipping costs for large items, etc.

If you don't do this, buyer beware. And it's your own fault if you mess up. Telling Heritage how to run their business is a joke.

jeff

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

I do not understand why so many people have a hard time figuring out all of the fees. Unless the fees are not disclosed, then I have no idea why anyone complains. If you do not like their rules, then do not use that company. Simple as that.

I'm impressed by all the collectors here who have never spent one penny over their "Max" due to the Buyer's Premium....and their very tiny collections.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Get in the habit of reading the rules each auction house publishes. It will tell you all you need to know about BPs, whether the auction house can bid on items themselves (many can!), minimum BP amounts, extra shipping costs for large items, etc.

If you don't do this, buyer beware. And it's your own fault if you mess up. Telling Heritage how to run their business is a joke.

jeff

It's America...Everyone has the right to defend the people that take their money.

I'm sure those people also defend Jeff Bezos, Donald Trump, Stan Kroenke, Comcast, ExxonMobil and stadium beer prices, etc, etc, etc.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I hear buyer's premiums are much lower in Venezuela.

[RCMcKenzie]

Buy Canadian, the exchange rate is about the same as the vig.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Here's a humorous explanation of why Buyer's Premiums exist...From an auction house of course. One I've never used and likely never will...

When attending an auction keep in mind that the buyer's premium is used to enhance the customer experience. The buyer's premium is charged so buyers are comfortable during the time of auctions and so the auction can operate efficiently. The extra charge is always put to good use.

I own an auction house and that's the weirdest, lamest explanation of BP I've ever heard.

BP was implemented by Christies and Sotheby's in the art world (some debate about who was first) to give them a competitive advantage in securing consignments by offering lower seller commissions. It's literally a shell game the same money is coming from somewhere, and ultimately should make no difference in what a consignor is paid or what a buyer pays. That being said, since it's become the industry norm it would be tough to just put the entire percentage you collect back on the seller as it had been previously, hence the proliferation.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Is the buyer's premiums for the auction stated in the consignment contract for any AH?

We state the BP in our consignor contracts.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by casey2296

nobody's getting rich at 20% gross margin before expenses.

thank you!

[Snapolit1]

It would be nice next time I ordered a steak at a fancy restaurant if there was a button I could push that told me how much it REALLY costs. Price on the menu is bullshit. There is a tip and tax. Sometimes even a tip for the valet parking guy. How these guy get away with such highway robbery is beyond me. Price on the menu don't mean anything.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I should have prefaced my comment to not include the big AH's like Heritage that auctions everything under the sun. My comment was more for the medium to smaller auction houses. I see how hard these guys work every auction, I also know that 20% margin before expenses in any business is pretty skinny, and they don't always make 20% on the premier offerings. There are AH owners on this sub smarter than me so maybe they can comment on the economics.

Our average Gross margin is 28% that's BP and commission (which isn't fixed) combined. I'm not starving, but I'm not driving a Ferrari either.

That 28% -

has to cover rent and utilities, salaries, advertising, the auction software costs, travel and show fees, etc.

Yes if your average sale is making millions 28% is killing it. In another thread someone mentioned Real Estate Agents and Car Dealers as companies that operate on thinner margins, but what is their average transaction? Our average transaction is a little over $100 and that $30 we get out of that has to go a long way in a lot of directions!

[Orioles1954]

If you think BPs are high in the states then try doing business overseas. The record auctions I participate in commonly run anywhere from 27-30%!

[conor912]

A good friend of mine works in the high end art business. He says if there is one AH to steer clear of, it’s Heritage.

Personally, I wouldn’t pay out of principal alone.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by vthobby

REA and........ REA !

REA, as much as I love them, quoted me a seller's consignment fee. Therefore, I took my almost $10,000 card elsewhere.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by conor912

Personally, I wouldn’t pay out of principal alone.

What principal? That you didn't read the terms or observe what the fees would be when they are shown or easily figured out? The OP in this case isn't making any excuses and realizes he got complacent in the way he estimated the costs.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

What principal? That you didn't read the terms or observe what the fees would be when they are shown or easily figured out? The OP in this case isn't making any excuses and realizes he got complacent in the way he estimated the costs.

The principal that an auction house shouldn't have policies that discourage bidding?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

The principal that an auction house shouldn't have policies that discourage bidding?

Then simply don't bid in the first place. If your placing a bid than you are agreeing to the terms even if you don't like them. Don't wait until you win to say you disagree with what you are going to be charged.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I hear buyer's premiums are much lower in Venezuela.

And the price is still higher when it ships than when you bid... gotta love that crazy inflation.

[jamest206]

I paid, and await. No biggie to me, just a reminder why I should not be bidding half asleep in bed. Greg Morris on Ebay is doing a fine job with their auctions, and REA has been 100 percent professional since I started purchasing from them as well.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by jamest206

I paid, and await. No biggie to me, just a reminder why I should not be bidding half asleep in bed. Greg Morris on Ebay is doing a fine job with their auctions, and REA has been 100 percent professional since I started purchasing from them as well.

But Heritage no longer gets your business, correct?

[Exhibitman]

The simplest thing would be to take the % out of the overall sale price, like eBay, but then that % of people who either miss the BP or cannot do the math to factor it into their bids would not overbid. Multiply that by thousands of bidders a year and the advantage to the house is apparent.

FWIW, I bid on some cheap HA lots tonight and the system noted the $29 BP on the bidding page, so no mystery there.