T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by gregr2

Hi Ted, thanks for always providing such top notch T206 information. I notice you say you “speculate” about such things as players next to each other on a sheet and other things. My question is, did the printers not keep records or have they all been destroyed? Sorry if this has been answered before.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks Greg, and, you ask a great question. Apparently, nothing was saved from American Litho's printing days of their various sets of tobacco cards (1909 - 1919).
Millions and millions of cards were produced, and not even a single sheet of cards has been discovered. This is really very strange. The only example which I know of
players horizontally adjacent to each other on a sheet is Chance (yellow portrait) and Cobb (red portrait), because I have seen a mis-cut T206 indicating this.

Years ago I was in downtown Manhattan, so I ventured over to Park Ave. and E 19th Street where the American Lithographic building still stands. I entered it, hoping
to find a showroom (or some kind of museum) displaying all the great stuff this great printing Company produced in the early 20th Century. What I found were many
professional offices, but no showrooms and no displays of any kind. The only thing I got out that visit was this photo I took of the building's entrance.





One of the competitors to American Lithographic (ALC) was Schmidt Lithography in San Francisco. They produced the OBAK cards. If you go to San Francisco,
visit the museum that Schmidt Lithography has on display. It's a real shame that ALC did not do the same.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks Greg, and, you ask a great question. Apparently, nothing was saved from American Litho's printing days of their various sets of tobacco cards (1909 - 1919).
Millions and millions of cards were produced, and not even a single sheet of cards has been discovered. This is really very strange. The only example which I know of
players horizontally adjacent to each other on a sheet is Chance (yellow portrait) and Cobb (red portrait), because I have seen a mis-cut T206 indicating this.

Years ago I was in downtown Manhattan, so I ventured over to Park Ave. and E 19th Street where the American Lithographic building still stands. I entered it, hoping
to find a showroom (or some kind of museum) displaying all the great stuff this great printing Company produced in the early 20th Century. What I found were many
professional offices, but no showrooms and no displays of any kind. The only thing I got out that visit was this photo I took of the building's entrance.





One of the competitors to American Lithographic (ALC) was Schmidt Lithography in San Francisco. They produced the OBAK cards. If you go to San Francisco,
visit the museum that Schmidt Lithography has on display. It's a real shame that ALC did not do the same.


TED Z
.

There are several horizontal miscut T206's

Here are the ones I have scans of...

Stephens with a part Of Rossman
Stephens - Rossman Miscut.jpg

Sheckard with Part of Goode, these two are also Neighbors on
a plate scratch sheet.

Sheckard-Goode - Copy.jpg
Sheckard - Goode Plate Scratch - Copy - Copy.jpg

Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national

Bergen - Herzog - Copy.jpg

horizontal sheet mates can also be found on many of the ghosts...

Wilson Ghost - Copy.jpg
Charles-Fletcher.jpg

on scraps such as the test print scrap....

Test Print Scrap - Copy.jpg

and on all of the plate scratch sheets

attachmentU8OPTOUU.jpg
Donlin-Mullin-Tannehill.jpg

[edhans]

[QUOTE=Pat R;1782169]

Bergen with part of Herzog (Boston) that Jantz picked up at last years national

Attachment 317938

I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again.

[Pat R]

I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again.[/QUOTE]

Hi Ed,

Yes I remember when he posted it that he said he had bought it off you.

Jantz was one of those few people that you never heard anyone
that had anything bad to say about him. I used to meet up with him at
all the nationals that I went to and I've lost interest in going
this year after hearing about his passing.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





Continuing on the "12 factor" theme. There are also some subtle examples of the "12 factor" regarding the printing of T206 backs in certain Series.
One example that comes to mind is the EPDG cards in the 350 Series. Exactly 108 subjects were printed with the EPDG back. Therefore, creating a
possible sheet which is formatted with 12 cards across by 9 rows down.

350 Series .................... 108 subjects printed with EPDG backs

Abbott
Anderson
Atz
Barbeau
Barger
Batch
Beck
Bender (trees)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Campbell
Casey
Chance (yellow portrait)

Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Collins (A's)
Collins (Minneapolis)
Congalton
Cravath
Cree
Davidson
Demmitt (New York)
Dineen
Joe Doyle (arms over head)
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)
Dunn (Brooklyn)
Easterly
Egan
Evans
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Fiene (portrait)

Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Freeman
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Gray
Groom
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Hoffman (Providence)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Kelley
Kisinger

Kleinow (catching-NY)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Kruger
Lattimore
Lavender
Livingstone
Lord
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Maddox
Mathewson (dark cap)
Mattern
McAleese
McCormick
McLean
Miller (Pittsburg)
Milligan
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Oakes

Oberlin
Pfeister (seated)
Phillippe
Purtell
Puttman
Quillen
Rhoades (arm extended)
Rhodes
Rudolph
Schlafly
Scott
Shannon
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Smith (Buffalo)
F. Smith (Chicago)
Stanage
Stephens
Sweeney (Boston)
Jesse Tannehill

Taylor
Thomas
Titus
White (Buffalo)
Willett
Wilson
Wright
Zimmerman






TED Z
.

[Jobu]

Thanks for continuing to post all of this great information Ted. It is nice to have a thread at the top of the board that deals with something other than complaining.

[tedzan]

Hi Bryan

I appreciate the complimentary words, good buddy.


TED Z
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[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *





In post #25 here, I present the A-B-C-D connection. ALC printed these T206 backs during the Summer of 1910. Theoretically, 190 subjects in the 350 Series
were printed with each of these 4 backs. The AMERICAN BEAUTY and CYCLE backs have been confirmed with all 190 subjects. The tougher BROAD LEAF back
has (so far) been confirmed with 177 subjects. And, the rare DRUM back has (so far) been confirmed with 151 (350 Series) subjects.






Here's the current list of the 177 subjects which have been confirmed with the BROAD LEAF 350 back:

Abbott
Abstein
Adkins
Anderson
Arellanes
Armbruster
Arndt
Barbeau
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beck
Becker
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Bliss
Brain
Bresnahan (bat)

Burchell
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Campbell
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chappelle
Charles
Chase (portrait-blue)
Clancy
Clark
Clymer
Eddie Collins
Congalton
Cravath
Cree

Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Dessau
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Dorner
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Dubuc
Jack Dunn (Baltimore)
Joe Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Egan
Engle
Evers (yellow sky)
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Fletcher

Freeman
Fromme
Ganzel
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Graham (St Louis)
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hayden
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hoffman (St Louis)
Hofman
Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)

Huggins (hands at mouth)
Hulswitt
Hunter
Jackson
Jones (Detroit)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
Kruger
LaPorte
Lattimore
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone

Lord
Maddox
Malarkey
Maloney
Marquard (portrait)
Marshall
McAleese
McBride
McCormick
McElveen
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
McIntyre (Detroit)
Merritt
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Milligan
Mitchell (Cinci)
Mitchell (Toronto)

Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Providence)
Moriarty
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Myers (fielding)
Nattress
Oakes
Oberlin
O'Brien
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelan
Phelps
Phillippe
Poland

Purtell
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (hands at chest)
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schreck
Scott
Sharpe
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle
Smith (Buffalo)
Snodgrass (bat)
Speaker
Stanage
Starr

Strang
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thielman
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
White (Buffalo)
Willett (bat)
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young
Zimmerman


Hey guys,
Let's see some BROAD LEAF 350 cards. Especially, if you have one that does not appear on this list. I expect that eventually we'll find the 13 missing BL 350 guys.


TED Z
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[Rhotchkiss]

Hi Ted, I hope all is well.

Totally off-topic, so please forgive me. I notice lately on ebay there are many Brown Hindus and Black Lenox (what is plural of Lenox??), that have paper loss on the back from where it seems the cards we glued to an album. My gut is that many of these cards must have come from the same collection, because its just too coincidental that this many of these backs are around at the same time, all with back damage. So, two questions:

1. Was there ever a large find of Broen Hindus or Black Lenox that all had back damage?

2. Were Brown Hindus and Black Lenox only released in certain parts of the country (like I think Drum and Nadja (in e cards) was St. Louis?

[jerrys]

Hi Ted,

Well worth reading is an article written by Andy Broome - Printing The Monster.

The article explores the logistics of assembling the player permission and images needed to produce such an enormous checklist anticipated and the clever way it was done. The connection between Joseph P. Knapp, the founder and head of the American Lithographic Company, and James B. Duke, head of the American Tobacco Company, for the printing of nearly all T-cards inserted into ATC products.

Explains the chromolithography process where T206 card sheets are passed through the printer six times for the six different layers of colors and the accuracy needed to keep perfect alignment. Blurry and ghost images as a result of any misalignment. Included in the engineering is the necessary ink color sequence of the layers in the printing.

Beside the image of the entrance to the ALC building there are pictures of a 10 ton lithopress and cutters that cut finished cardsheets of the T206 cards.

Published by Beckett Vintage Collector April, 2018.

[tedzan]

Thanks Jerry,

I will check out Andy Broome's article.


TED Z
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[RedsFan1941]

i always enjoy seeing the latest research uncovered by the plate scratches. awesome groundbreaking work patrick

[tedzan]

Hi Pat

Thanks for posting those horizontal mis-cut T206's.

Many years ago I saw a horizontal mis-cut T206 with the Chance (yellow portrait) adjacent to the red Cobb.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Thanks Ronnie.

I've heard of the Chance/Cobb Ted but I have never seen the card
or a scan. I think Brian W still has the Sheckard/Goode which I think
is one of the coolest T206 cards.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Pat

Thanks for posting those horizontal mis-cut T206's.

Many years ago I saw a horizontal mis-cut T206 with the Chance (yellow portrait) adjacent to the red Cobb.


TED Z
.

Only copy I have ever seen of this Ted.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Only copy I have ever seen of this Ted.

That is exactly the mis-cut Chance/Cobb I referred to in Post #398.

Thanks Chris for posting it.

Will we see you at the National in Cleveland ?



TED Z
.