Another Probstein123 black eye

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by CW

To anyone surprised or amused by the REA/Probstein comparison:

Both companies are movers of high volumes of cards which are consigned to them by collectors. They may not react the same way, but they provide an identical service, albeit through different venues. They are counterparts. Comparisons will be made. Expectations will be set.

If one of those companies (REA) sets a standard of basic ethical practice in the business, it is not out of the ordinary to think that other auction houses should follow suit when an altered card is brought to their attention (ie. investigating and at least pulling the auction and returning the card to the consignor if the alteration is blatant).

Of course, other auction houses may not follow suit (Probstein, in this instance), but it is neither funny, sad, or an "absolute joke" to make the comparison and expect similar ethical business practices.

I am also not naive enough to think the above will happen, but as a consumer you can expect it. When it doesn't happen, then you complain or criticize which is why this thread was started.

And I just happened to use REA as an example. As another, when Goodwin was alerted about a possibly bad PSA graded '52 Mantle in one of their auctions, they sent it to PSA for review, found it to be a compromised slab, and they pulled the auction.

I hear ya Chuck, I just think there are two camps forming on this issue. Yes REA and Probstein offer the same service but so does McDonalds and Gibsons Steakhouse. I would love if everyone in the hobby had the same standards, but they just don't, who gets to set these "standards"?

AHs ALL operate differently. One major AH n particular provides nuclear scans that are obviously tweaked and played with. Another major AH has a history of paying consignors very late and I have personally called and challenged a couple AHs on the authenticity and questionable alterations of CJs...I was told "who made you an expert" and they were not pulled or examined. One AH had over 20 people contact them about a CJ which wasn't pulled, examined, sent back in or anything...it just sold. What in the hell makes me an expert? Owning 1000 CJs? Spending hours upon hours educating myself? Developing a network of 100 people in the CJ world? Writing an extensive article delving into facts never discussed on the set? None of that makes me an expert, but it does make me trusted my the community. I have no more pull than Joe Schmo.

What separates AHs IMO is what THEY decide to do and how to handle things. People are willing to bid more with REA b/c they have an immense level of integrity and knowledge. You'll see cards go for more there than anywhere else as they set REAL records all the time. This is b/c of their leadership and the fact that they ca do this. REAs knowledge and integrity are unsurpassed in the hobby, end of story.

On the other end people avoid Probstein and PWCC b/c they shill and pull bullshit. They will not stand behind their cards and have been involved in some very questionable ethics. It is their choice what standards they set and they reap the consequences of those standards just like REA.

IMO Probstein is McDonalds...you will get crap. If you want to gamble and you want to take that risk than go ahead and every once in awhile you'll get a cold burger. AT this point of collecting and life the transaction is arguably worth more than the card to me and REA is Gibsons, they will guarantee your satisfaction and Dwyer will take care of you no questions asked.

The argument comes down to this for me:
1. Is the flip a product - absolutely
2. Do all AHs have the same standards - absolutely not
3. Do I get to choose where my money is spent - every day

Its all capitalism baby. Ill take REA all day, every day. Hell, I wont even spend money at the moment as I await their APRIL auction as they have the best stuff and Dwyer will take of me...no questions asked.

I really do enjoy the debate, I am sorry if I offend anyone as it is unintended and I think conversations like this are crucial to evolve our hobby we all love. I respect all of you guys and hope everyone has a great 2018.

[oldjudge]

REA is the only auction house who I have ever seen say that a slabbed card was overgraded. That was Rob, before Brian ever came on board. Rob set the tone. I can recall no other auction house, major or smaller, that has ever done anything similar. Most auctions have minimal descriptions that throw out a few ungrammatical adjectives and say little more than what is on the slab. REA is the exception; Probstein is the rule.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

REA is the only auction house who I have ever seen say that a slabbed card was overgraded. That was Rob, before Brian ever came on board. Rob set the tone. I can recall no other auction house, major or smaller, that has ever done anything similar. Most auctions have minimal descriptions that throw out a few ungrammatical adjectives and say little more than what is on the slab. REA is the exception; Probstein is the rule.

Well said...Do you think Rick Probstein would ever announce a card being over graded?? Let me eat this bar of soap....

[oldjudge]

I think zero chance (or less)

[rp12367]

Auction closed at $6100 w/50 bids. Looks like the winner was willing to take the gamble.

[obcmac]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

AHs ALL operate differently. One major AH n particular provides nuclear scans that are obviously tweaked and played with. Another major AH has a history of paying consignors very late and I have personally called and challenged a couple AHs on the authenticity and questionable alterations of CJs...I was told "who made you an expert" and they were not pulled or examined. One AH had over 20 people contact them about a CJ which wasn't pulled, examined, sent back in or anything...it just sold. What in the hell makes me an expert? Owning 1000 CJs? Spending hours upon hours educating myself? Developing a network of 100 people in the CJ world? Writing an extensive article delving into facts never discussed on the set? None of that makes me an expert, but it does make me trusted my the community. I have no more pull than Joe Schmo.

I would be interested to hear the auction house that disregarded your opinion on the CJ's. Why not post it (again...if I missed it the first time)?