Greatest of all time

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by rats60

If he was any good, he wouldn't have needed to dope. He was ok with Pitt, but he went to SF and felt he needed to start doping in 1993 to be better. Clean it was questionable if he would have even made the HOF, like Roger Maris or Dale Murphy.

He'd won two straight MVPs in Pittsburgh and led the league in OPS three straight years and was considered perhaps the best defensive LF ever. He was quite a bit more than OK.

Also, I thought the allegations are that he used steroids after the 1998 season.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

He'd won two straight MVPs in Pittsburgh and led the league in OPS three straight years and was considered perhaps the best defensive LF ever. He was quite a bit more than OK.

Also, I thought the allegations are that he used steroids after the 1998 season.

My information is that he began using after 1998 also. He was the only hitter I ever saw who made major league pitching look like slow-pitch softball--one broadcaster recently commented that he could never remember Barry even swinging and missing at a pitch! Too bad he was such an incredible jerk, though--he was the very last guy who could even hope to get away with using. I still don't know how to mentally compartmentalize these guys: Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc.--they were the very best of their era, with tons of guys doing the same thing--do you put them in the HOF???

What I'd like to see done will never happen: polygraph testing re whether or not they used PED's, which would be a prerequisite for getting on the HOF ballot. PED use would neither disqualify them from the ballot or admission, but if voted in, they would go in with the appropriate asterisk/notation on their plaques.

Just my two cents,

Larry

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

He'd won two straight MVPs in Pittsburgh and led the league in OPS three straight years and was considered perhaps the best defensive LF ever. He was quite a bit more than OK.

Best defensive LF means nothing. LF is where you put outfielders not good enough to play center or right. And Barry's noodle arm keeps him out of any "best defensive" anything discussion.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

He'd won two straight MVPs in Pittsburgh and led the league in OPS three straight years and was considered perhaps the best defensive LF ever. He was quite a bit more than OK.

Also, I thought the allegations are that he used steroids after the 1998 season.

Maris and Murphy won two straight MVPs, Bonds didn't. Leading in OPS is worth less when you stink in the post season .191/.329/.390 3rbi in 20 games. Bonds is probably the worst post season player ever. 6 of 7 times in the post season, his team lost the first series and Bonds was terrible. Even in 2002 doped up, he had a good postseason at the plate, but misplayed a Troy Glaus fly ball into a game winning double in game 7 of the WS.

As far as defense, no he wasn't that good. He is remembered for his poor throw that allowed Sid Bream to score the winning run in the 92 playoffs and his misplay in the 2002 WS. Like Derek Jeter, he won gold gloves because of his name.

Bonds claim is that he started using in 98, but it is obvious he started in 93. He hooked up with Greg Anderson and Balco after 98 season.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by rats60

Maris and Murphy won two straight MVPs, Bonds didn't. Leading in OPS is worth less when you stink in the post season .191/.329/.390 3rbi in 20 games. Bonds is probably the worst post season player ever. 6 of 7 times in the post season, his team lost the first series and Bonds was terrible. Even in 2002 doped up, he had a good postseason at the plate, but misplayed a Troy Glaus fly ball into a game winning double in game 7 of the WS.

As far as defense, no he wasn't that good. He is remembered for his poor throw that allowed Sid Bream to score the winning run in the 92 playoffs and his misplay in the 2002 WS. Like Derek Jeter, he won gold gloves because of his name.

Bonds claim is that he started using in 98, but it is obvious he started in 93. He hooked up with Greg Anderson and Balco after 98 season.

Is there evidence that he was on steroids in 93? Or even any allegations? If so that would change my perception of him. But as much as I may not of liked him, I have to admit he was a great player - before steroids (1998).