What am I missing on Moe Berg?

[SMPEP]

Is it just me ... or are the prices asked (and sometimes received?) for Moe Berg cards WAY out of whack with other cards?

I mean the guy was an average player and a spy. Okay. Big deal.

Why do the prices for his cards rival/exceed the prices for Lou Gerhig and Jimmy Foxx?

I just don't get it.

Seems to me Berg cards should be more in line with Al Schracht cards. A common player, with an interesting back story, that makes him more than a common and less than a super star.

Am I missing something???? Why do you have to mortgage the house to get a bad condition Berg card in the 33 Goudey of 36 Fine Pens?

Patrick

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

Is it just me ... or are the prices asked (and sometimes received?) for Moe Berg cards WAY out of whack with other cards?

I mean the guy was an average player and a spy. Okay. Big deal.

Why do the prices for his cards rival/exceed the prices for Lou Gerhig and Jimmy Foxx?

I just don't get it.

Seems to me Berg cards should be more in line with Al Schracht cards. A common player, with an interesting back story, that makes him more than a common and less than a super star.

Am I missing something???? Why do you have to mortgage the house to get a bad condition Berg card in the 33 Goudey of 36 Fine Pens?

Patrick

Lots of people collect Jewish players as well. His story is one of the most interesting and oft repeated in the history of the sport...at least for a non-all star type player. You will also notice that there isn't much of a difference between, say, a PSA 3 and PSA 6 for the 33 Goudey. Only around $100 or so on average. This tells me that people are more interested in getting an example of the card than they are getting a better condition one. Thus, the popularity of the player due to his Jewish heritae and his uber-interesting story lead to a demand for the card.

Tom C

[Exhibitman]

Besides being a Jewish ballplayer, he has a popular culture place far above Schact. Berg's story is quite compelling: Ivy League educated lawyer who would rather spend time as a bullpen catcher than working at a far more lucrative profession [he said "I'd rather be a ballplayer than a justice on the U.S. Supreme Court."], early recruit to the OSS, an actual overseas spy. At one point he was tasked with attending a conference in Switzerland to evaluate Werner Heisenberg's progress on the A bomb, with instructions to assassinate him if Heisenberg seemed to be close to building a bomb]. He parachuted into occupied Yugoslavia to work with and evaluate the various resistance groups. His wartime services resulted in the Medal of Freedom [2nd highest civilian honor at the time]. He was the subject of a best-selling book, The Catcher Was A Spy. Also a very popular character of the day who seemed to know everyone from the President on down. Here he is with Joe Louis.

[Runscott]

Bullpen catcher stuff is HUGE. I own a complete uniform worn by Astros bullpen catcher Javier Bracamonte.

I wish he was also a spy

[SMPEP]

I guess I still just don't get it.

Hank Greenberg was Jewish. His cards go for less, and he was a much better baseball player.

Jimmy Doolittle did a lot more in the war ... and his cards (in the 1934 Sky Birds series for example) barely go for more than a common.

I mean I understand there would be a premium for Berg versus a common. He was an interesting guy (but so was Schact).

But when his cards are priced at the level of Gerhig and Dimaggio (and he carries a premium versus regular HOFers of the era)... well, that just seems silly to me.

But to each his own I suppose.
Patrick

[thecatspajamas]

That's Schacht to you, buddy

[vthobby]

Sorry but could not resist:

And that is Gehrig to you also.

Peace, Mike

PS oh.....and it's DiMaggio.

[Wildfireschulte]

A few years back I heard there was a Moe Berg movie in the works. Did it ever get made?

[1963Topps Set]

That is like Bob Uecker, a common who has far more value then he should have.

[FrankWakefield]

SMPEP, read The Catcher was a Spy. Then consider that Berg touched a broad spectrum of very diverse people. A few of those folks, here and there, probably wanted a Berg card back in the late '40s to late '50s. Kinda like how Shag Shaughnessy's white border southern league card had increased demand in the teens, 20's and 30's, because of his position in minor league baseball. Lots of folks who didn't really collect baseball cards did want one of Shag's in those days.

I think that's what pulled some of Berg's cards out of the hands of normal collectors ("normal, thought that was a setting on a clothes dryer") and into the hands of folks who'd only get one card, Moe's. Those singletons are now most likely lost to our hobby.

Based on the way you asked your question and your first response, it sounded like you'd already made up your mind.

Somewhere, I have one of his business cards from long ago. If I can find the right box I'll get an image posted.

[RichardSimon]

I am not a card person but I find it hard to believe that his cards are selling for as much as Gehrig.
Is that correct?

[btcarfagno]

Wonderful signed large format Who's Who page.

Tom C

[glynparson]

Answer is Demand.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I am not a card person but I find it hard to believe that his cards are selling for as much as Gehrig.
Is that correct?

Berg cards usually sell for a fraction of Gehrig cards.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by SMPEP

I guess I still just don't get it.

Hank Greenberg was Jewish. His cards go for less, and he was a much better baseball player.

Jimmy Doolittle did a lot more in the war ... and his cards (in the 1934 Sky Birds series for example) barely go for more than a common.

I mean I understand there would be a premium for Berg versus a common. He was an interesting guy (but so was Schact).

But when his cards are priced at the level of Gerhig and Dimaggio (and he carries a premium versus regular HOFers of the era)... well, that just seems silly to me.

But to each his own I suppose.
Patrick

If anyone wants to trade a 1933 goudey Gehrig or a 1939 play ball DiMaggio for my Berg cards of those issues please email me.

[RGold]

I just sold this one in September for $2,200. Gehrig in the same grade would easily sell for 5 times that.

image.jpg

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by RGold

I just sold this one in September for $2,200. Gehrig in the same grade would easily sell for 5 times that.

Attachment 176476

Ron,

To answer the OP's original question, I thought your answer would be

"Gold"

[RGold]

Goot

[ullmandds]

After I read the catcher was a spy...I Wanted a Moe Berg card!!!!!!!

To say Berg's cards sell higher than gehrig's just is not true...this may only be the occasional case in a set where gehrigs cards go very very cheap...definitely not the main issues like goudey.

[Wildfireschulte]

A teammate Once said of Berg, "he can speak seven languages, but can't hit in any of them".

[Orioles1954]

Demand is based on story and lore. I actually find Berg's story more compelling that the Black Sox Scandal.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

After I read the catcher was a spy...I Wanted a Moe Berg card!!!!!!!.

This, +1.

I first heard about Moe 7 years ago or so (when I heavily got into collecting my hof cards etc.) and heard he was a spy, and quite an interesting man (too bad he's not around today, he surely would have been the "World's Most Interesting Man" for Dos Equis). I immediately went home to search for any signed cards/cards/and plain auto's of him.

[jerseygary]

Moe is a big part of Rob Fitts' book "Banzai Babe Ruth" which came out a few years ago. It focuses on the 1934 tour of Japan (where Berg took the movies of the Tokyo skyline later used by the USAAF in identifying targets). Besides the Berg parts, Fitts' book is a great glimpse of 1934 baseball, a must have if you collect Goudey and Diamond Stars and love the story behind the players - Lefty Gomes, Ruth, Gehrig, Mack, Foxx - they're all in there and the author brings them all to life. There's a great look into the Ruth-Gehrig relationship and I really enjoyed how The Babe was portrayed in the book. Plus there's an additional sub-plot of a military coup and how the US baseball tour played a part in it. Reads like fiction, but it's all true - but anyway, its a contemporary book about Berg besides the usual "Catcher was a Spy" that's often read.

[FrankWakefield]

Berg's brother and sister each had different perspectives on their baseball playing brother, and each supported separate books about him. The sister's had limited printing, it took me a while to get a copy. Berg was a very interesting fellow. It isn't just baseball and spy... it's how he could walk in and out of places, drop in on people, disappear for periods of time. One tiny insight, he liked reading all of a newspaper; unread, he considered it "alive", and once he had read it, it was "dead". He didn't like folks messing with his newspapers.

[dabigyankeeman]

I collect Jewish cards as a sub-collection, and Berg is one of the major Jewish players I want, and people like me I am sure drive the prices up. Perhaps too not as many Moe Berg cards survived as at the time it wasnt known that he was a spy and all the other stuff, and while Greenberg cards were being kept, perhaps many people got rid of Berg cards.

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

Moe is a big part of Rob Fitts' book "Banzai Babe Ruth" which came out a few years ago. It focuses on the 1934 tour of Japan (where Berg took the movies of the Tokyo skyline later used by the USAAF in identifying targets). Besides the Berg parts, Fitts' book is a great glimpse of 1934 baseball, a must have if you collect Goudey and Diamond Stars and love the story behind the players - Lefty Gomes, Ruth, Gehrig, Mack, Foxx - they're all in there and the author brings them all to life. There's a great look into the Ruth-Gehrig relationship and I really enjoyed how The Babe was portrayed in the book. Plus there's an additional sub-plot of a military coup and how the US baseball tour played a part in it. Reads like fiction, but it's all true - but anyway, its a contemporary book about Berg besides the usual "Catcher was a Spy" that's often read.

I was unaware of this book, after reading your post I got on Amazon and ordered it. Thanks!!!

[jerseygary]

Hope you like it as much as I did!

[GehrigFan]

If I remember right, Berg was also basically tossed aside by the Secret Service/CIA after his spy work in Japan. He was rehired later in a lesser capacity. But he was essentially homeless for awhile and would wander around, living with friends and relatives. He was one of the smartest and most educated (and most fluent) men in America, and the government just used him and tossed him away.

One of the pieces I really loved in our last Heritage auction was Berg's actual Europe Eurail train pass from one of his spy trips.

[pbspelly]

Here's a shot of my grandfather Billy Sullivan with Moe Berg. I always thought it was an interesting picture because I would think it has to be the only photo of two major league catchers who both had law degrees. Perhaps even the only photo of two major league players who both had law degrees at the time they were playing.