When was the end of Junk era?

[Exhibitman]

The initial overproduction started in 1974 when topps moved to a single series set. Until 1980 there are tons of cards but topps' poor QC makes it challenging to find certain cards in 'mint' condition, e.g., 1976 George Brett without print haze or 1975 Garvey without the white dot on his nose or a 1976 Reggie without a white streak on the bottom yellow stripe.

True junk wax started in 1981 and reached its apex in the early 1990s after the insanity of the 1991 Anaheim national.

The irony of it is that 20-30 years out there are some really nice cards of HOFers that are obtainable on the most modest budget even in a PSA 9 holder, if that floats your boat. I've started buying junk era cards of players I like and in designs I find impressive because I am a collector. I picked up one of my favorite junk era cards, 1988 Score Nolan Ryan for a few bucks in PSA 9. I really get a kick out of the more creative parallel issues like the Topps Stadium Club matrix from 1997 or the 1996 Pinnacle Starburst. There are also some incredibly interesting inserts like the intricate die cut cards or the cards make with non-paper materials like acetate or metallic foil. The TSC Midsummer Matchup set is a favorite; the flocked iridescent foil makes for a really striking look.

I completely agree with the criticism of the throwback designs. At least the junk wax manufacturers were trying with new materials and interesting graphics. The revisited designs are just lazy IMO.

The pop art reference is spot on too. Art even met cards when Peter Max did sets for topps. Another issue I now collect.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The initial overproduction started in 1974 when topps moved to a single series set. Until 1980 there are tons of cards but topps' poor QC makes it challenging to find certain cards in 'mint' condition, e.g., 1976 George Brett without print haze or 1975 Garvey without the white dot on his nose or a 1976 Reggie without a white streak on the bottom yellow stripe.

True junk wax started in 1981 and reached its apex in the early 1990s after the insanity of the 1991 Anaheim national.

The irony of it is that 20-30 years out there are some really nice cards of HOFers that are obtainable on the most modest budget even in a PSA 9 holder, if that floats your boat. I've started buying junk era cards of players I like and in designs I find impressive because I am a collector. I picked up one of my favorite junk era cards, 1988 Score Nolan Ryan for a few bucks in PSA 9. I really get a kick out of the more creative parallel issues like the Topps Stadium Club matrix from 1997 or the 1996 Pinnacle Starburst. There are also some incredibly interesting inserts like the intricate die cut cards or the cards make with non-paper materials like acetate or metallic foil. The TSC Midsummer Matchup set is a favorite; the flocked iridescent foil makes for a really striking look.

I completely agree with the criticism of the throwback designs. At least the junk wax manufacturers were trying with new materials and interesting graphics. The revisited designs are just lazy IMO.

The pop art reference is spot on too. Art even met cards when Peter Max did sets for topps. Another issue I now collect.

88 Score is one of the sets I collect, but sort of passively. They were actually die cut, which was interesting at the time. It also led to there being at least three versions. The first batch had gaps at the corners of the die cutting die so there were tufts of torn cardboard on all the corners. But usually only for part of the set. Naturally people complained, and they redid the dies. But all they did was make the gaps smaller and move them in about a quarter inch from the corner. More complaints, and they finally got it right. Most of the cards have the good looking cuts. The ones with the first die cuts are pretty easy to find, but the second are actually fairly tough since they weren't around for long, maybe a month? Maybe less? Fairly tough being relative - they're still 88 Score

Until I bought a big batch of them I'd only found a few.

Going through the batch I found some with color differences, and a closer look showed that they were screened differently. So there may be six different of some cards if not all of them.

Steve B

[revlis]

Thanks for the info on the dates for refractors and autos. Helps put things in perspective. I happened to get into collecting right at the height of it as a kid.

I'm currently starting to build a few vintage sets as well as buy individual vintage cards I like. However, I will definitely not be building any sets of modern cards. Its just not for me, its far to easy and they are kinda worthless (both to me and monetarily). So it seems there is some kind of problem with the product that is being produced. People like the refractor autos (myself included) and will pay a lot of money to collect them but throw away the base stuff which leaves little value to set builders.

How should they address this? Are there not alternative producers that cater for the set builder? Or is it simply that things have evolved?

Completely agree with the pop art of the older cards, its certainly what draws me to them. Not sure how that could be resurrected bc any time i see a modern card going for a vintage look it always looks unauthentic or a copy of an older set rather that updating that look and feel for today.

[Tripredacus]

I think the junk era is still going on, but that the entire feel has changed. The fact is now that base cards are seen as being about as worthless today as cards from 1990. Less so in some cases for regional markup. But the problem remains that today the insert card rules the roost, and the base cards are the junk. In the early 90s, all the cards were junk, with few exceptions.

[Rich Klein]

I think in 20 years or so, when many of us are long gone from the hobby, you will be surprised as to the scarcity of some modern base cards. With everyone moving them out, they won't be around like you think they are today.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I think in 20 years or so, when many of us are long gone from the hobby, you will be surprised as to the scarcity of some modern base cards. With everyone moving them out, they won't be around like you think they are today.

I think you are already starting to see this with some of the unopened boxes from the early part of the junk wax era (i.e. '80-84). No that they are scarce yet, but certainly not popping up as often.


Z

[Jayworld]

Originally Posted by Tripredacus

I think the junk era is still going on, but that the entire feel has changed. The fact is now that base cards are seen as being about as worthless today as cards from 1990. Less so in some cases for regional markup. But the problem remains that today the insert card rules the roost, and the base cards are the junk. In the early 90s, all the cards were junk, with few exceptions.

I would tend to agree with this.

When visiting the local card shop, I regularly speak with the owner, and always ask, "so what's your best seller," or "what's moving for you right now," etc., and I find the answers enlightening. Basically, (from the owner's prospective), competition is good, and the fact that Topps is the only MLB licensee is not so good, and the fact that card packs, boxes, cases are increasing in price and the value that they contain are not increasing. Everything is based upon "hits" or "pulls," both terms that were foreign to me when I got back into the hobby in 2000 after leaving in 1985. So much had changed in those 15 years; cards no longer had gum in the packs, there were now insert cards with autographs, jersey swatches, bat pieces, baseball bits, shiny parallels, etc.

Seems that to keep the interest of "collectors," manufacturers have had to place random "hits" into packs to keep those that collect baseball cards buying the cards. I have tried on several occasions to try to get back into collecting modern cards, as I was a set builder from 1975-84, but I've found the cost too prohibitive to build sets, with the only exception being Topps Opening Day product, and even that product does not interest me; partly due to the design of the cards. I'm a graphic designer (of 26+ years) but all the Photoshopping, gradient effects, background texture patterns, etc. just really turn me off. The Topps Archives cards, as far as "modern" cards go, interest me the most because they mimic past sets that either were appealing visually or that I collected. The nice, clean designs of several sets of the 1970s (and 50s and 60s) speak for themselves; unfortunately, most collectors (according to the owner) don't buy modern cards for the cards themselves; they buy them for the "hits." Borrowing from a statement in another part of the forum I found appropriate, it's legalized lotto in a way.

I also find it interesting that the biggest sellers are the Bowmans and Bowman Chromes and the "throwback" modern cards, such as Allen & Ginter, Topps Heritage, etc. That suggests that those that are spending the money on new product still prefer the older cards, so if they buy new stuff, they gravitate to card designs that are vintage.

I, too, think the junk wax era continues, albeit in a modified form... Wasn't it nice to go to the local convenient store or 7-11 and purchase a few packs for under a dollar, open the wax (yes, wax) pack and thumb through the cards, and seeing what you needed while struggling with the extra sugary stick of bubble gum in your mouth?

Do I buy modern cards? Really, no. I've found that for the value of 2-3 new packs, I can certainly pick up something I really want, such as a Goudey or vintage Bowman card. If I really want the "thrill" of opening new packs, I buy Japanese baseball cards (the only modern cards I collect), as that is fun to me...

[Rich Klein]

Since Jay and myself frequent the same store --- I can add some more depth to his comments

In Al's defense -- he does have a TON of singles from 1981-present available for collectors and those boxes get visited on a regular basis. It's not his biggest seller but he does very well with them. And there are many collectors who do base cards and frequent those boxes

However, the bulk of his money and his collector interest comes from the newest packs and boxes. If there is a decent product, go into his store on Wednesday evening about 6 PM and ask him how many cases/boxes he blew through of the new product.

Jay: I think you would have just as much fun opening "retail blaster" boxes of a product you like.

Just MOO

Rich

[Jayworld]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Since Jay and myself frequent the same store --- I can add some more depth to his comments

In Al's defense -- he does have a TON of singles from 1981-present available for collectors and those boxes get visited on a regular basis. It's not his biggest seller but he does very well with them. And there are many collectors who do base cards and frequent those boxes

However, the bulk of his money and his collector interest comes from the newest packs and boxes. If there is a decent product, go into his store on Wednesday evening about 6 PM and ask him how many cases/boxes he blew through of the new product.

Jay: I think you would have just as much fun opening "retail blaster" boxes of a product you like.

Just MOO

Rich

Rich: Nice post. Al does have singles (mostly commons) from about 1965-1981, along with a smattering of 1950s Bowman and 1960s Fleer. His setup has expanded within the past 1-2 years from nil to approximately 3-4 thousand cards, which I think nice. Honestly, the only reason I go into the store now is to either buy supplies (Ultra Pro pages, albums, etc.) or peruse from the singles table. I have not found any modern product that I have liked, at least enough to collect and try to build a set, since I returned to the hobby in 2000. I have bought a few packs here and there of various product, trying them out, to try to "spur" my interest again in modern product, and it just doesn't "take." I end up selling or trading the new stuff for vintage.

Seriously, the only modern products I collect are Japanese baseball, Calbee, BBM, and Owner's League. The Japanese cards are WELL done, nice designs, and when you open a pack, you get...drum roll....cards. Not cut signatures, parallels, etc. It's been a refreshment to the hobby for me.

Still think that "Junk wax" (wax a misnomer) is still here, and hopefully, as echoed earlier in the post, perhaps Panini and Topps will put more effort in design and thought into their products rather than high prices and the emphasis on "hits."

[Manny Trillo]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The initial overproduction started in 1974 when topps moved to a single series set. Until 1980 there are tons of cards but topps' poor QC makes it challenging to find certain cards in 'mint' condition, e.g., 1976 George Brett without print haze or 1975 Garvey without the white dot on his nose or a 1976 Reggie without a white streak on the bottom yellow stripe.

True junk wax started in 1981 and reached its apex in the early 1990s after the insanity of the 1991 Anaheim national.

The irony of it is that 20-30 years out there are some really nice cards of HOFers that are obtainable on the most modest budget even in a PSA 9 holder, if that floats your boat. I've started buying junk era cards of players I like and in designs I find impressive because I am a collector. I picked up one of my favorite junk era cards, 1988 Score Nolan Ryan for a few bucks in PSA 9. I really get a kick out of the more creative parallel issues like the Topps Stadium Club matrix from 1997 or the 1996 Pinnacle Starburst. There are also some incredibly interesting inserts like the intricate die cut cards or the cards make with non-paper materials like acetate or metallic foil. The TSC Midsummer Matchup set is a favorite; the flocked iridescent foil makes for a really striking look.

I completely agree with the criticism of the throwback designs. At least the junk wax manufacturers were trying with new materials and interesting graphics. The revisited designs are just lazy IMO.

The pop art reference is spot on too. Art even met cards when Peter Max did sets for topps. Another issue I now collect.

1988 score was a beautiful sight I love the Brett

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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

1988 score was a beautiful sight I love the Brett

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Score had a plant in the little town I lived in for a very short time and some of the 88's got produced here.

Also noticed your Manny Trillo username. Manny, Greg Luzinski, and Larry cox played minor league ball here in 1968 for the Phillies.