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  #101  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:16 PM
Ricky Ricky is offline
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"In my opinion, the steal of the auction was the E107 Plank for under $10k."

That Plank was mine, so this consigner isn't thrilled...
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  #102  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:17 PM
benjulmag benjulmag is offline
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Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
Corey, I thought that even the auctions that remain open well into the morning have a hard close time that is not dependent on the amount of time a last bid was placed on an item in the auction. But it’s an arbitrary time determined by the auction house themselves. Perhaps what I’m saying is incorrect and they do just continue until there is no bid for a certain amount of time. If that’s the case then you will always have time to bid on something else but perhaps someone else can chime in whether even in that circumstance does the auction continue for as long as there is a bid being placed on any item?
In the auction this happened to me at, the AH basically said that at 4 AM the auction would close without notice. At that hour very few lots were still active, and for those (high ticket) ones that were, the AH would upon request email/call you that they were about to close and to immediately make any final bids. So that is how that AH handled it. By the time it ended, I at least knew that I had my full shot on everything I had an interest in, and that I had full control over everything that happened. The flip side is I got to bed shortly before dawn and was not particularly productive that day. I would have very much preferred all this to have played out hours earlier, which I believe is what would have happened with steadily reduced bidding intervals (coupled with an earlier start time for extended bidding).

Last edited by benjulmag; 08-19-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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  #103  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:20 PM
JackW JackW is offline
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"almost everyone has put in their best bid and gone to bed"

If you know an auction is going to end at midnight and you are the current high bidder, why not put in your best bid at 11:58 or 11:59? Then if you get "sniped" you will know the sniper beat your best bid? It seems like people who got beat late last night are lamenting they didn't place their highest bid but are blaming how the auction ended. I would much rather place my absolute best bid when I know it's going to be "out there" only for 1 or 2 minutes as opposed to some unknown or unstated auction closing time.
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  #104  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:20 PM
JoeRand JoeRand is offline
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Agree. I was on it and then bailed at the very end because I already have several autos from the Great Pittsburgh Find. The legit ones out there are still undervalued but real pieces of history.
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  #105  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:24 PM
benjulmag benjulmag is offline
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Originally Posted by JackW View Post
"almost everyone has put in their best bid and gone to bed"

If you know an auction is going to end at midnight and you are the current high bidder, why not put in your best bid at 11:58 or 11:59? Then if you get "sniped" you will know the sniper beat your best bid? It seems like people who got beat late last night are lamenting they didn't place their highest bid but are blaming how the auction ended. I would much rather place my absolute best bid when I know it's going to be "out there" only for 1 or 2 minutes as opposed to some unknown or unstated auction closing time.
Fair, but I would argue that being human some of us don't know what their absolute best bid is until we know that unless we make it, we will be outbid. To say it another way, and this often happens to me, I cannot answer in the hypothetical (which is what a top bid is when it is the high bid when made) how high am I willing to go.
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  #106  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:27 PM
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CuriousGeorge CuriousGeorge is offline
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Because if I have say 10 items Iím looking at and put high ceiling bids on each of them, whatís to say I donít get run up on all of them and then I have 10 items at the max I was willing to spend on each, not thinking I could end up with all of them? I wouldnít call not doing that lazy, but actually financially prudent.

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Originally Posted by bounce View Post
You have the option of setting a higher bid so you don't get sniped. If you didn't do that, isn't it on you? Why aren't we just calling that "lazy" instead of a problem? The snipe WAS the highest bid at closing time.

I don't necessarily love the hard stop the way it happened, but I knew it was possible and even likely. As a matter of fact, I was about to bid on two other items because I'd gotten outbid on the most expensive item I was chasing around 11:40P. But I got lazy, hit bid about 8 seconds too late. Oh well.

And, NO I do not think the auction house has responsibility to get the highest price for every item - that's a totally false premise that they can't control. The "market" is much larger than the bidder IDs at REA - frequently the person willing to pay the most isn't even bidding in some of these auctions. Time, resources, awareness, all of those things factor in. REA got good exposure, they normally do solid but not overly flowerly write-ups and they run a fair auction process. I think they did their job.
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  #107  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
"In my opinion, the steal of the auction was the E107 Plank for under $10k."

That Plank was mine, so this consigner isn't thrilled...
I'm sorry Ricky. That is a great looking card. I have had my bad luck on consignments too. It happens. I am sorry it happened to you. On the flip side, your buyer is likely thrilled....
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  #108  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:32 PM
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So maybe the best solution is for any item that gets bid on in the last 60 seconds gets reset to a 60 second clock so that the item wonít close until there are no bids for 60 seconds. This might actually meet everyoneís needs.
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  #109  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
Because if I have say 10 items Iím looking at and put high ceiling bids on each of them, whatís to say I donít get run up on all of them and then I have 10 items at the max I was willing to spend on each, not thinking I could end up with all of them? I wouldnít call not doing that lazy, but actually financially prudent.
+100. This is the point. Not that you get outbid, or outbid at the last minute. Rather, its you are afraid to put your best in on numerous things (say 10) bc you may stuck holding the bag on all of them for an aggregate amount far in excess of what you wanted/expected to spend.
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  #110  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:35 PM
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And to be honest Ricky, if I wasnít dealing with a few items closing at the same time on REA plus the same time at Heritage, Iím sure I would have bid on it again. Itís too much for an old guy like me to be doing at midnight on a Sunday in the summer.

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"In my opinion, the steal of the auction was the E107 Plank for under $10k."

That Plank was mine, so this consigner isn't thrilled...
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  #111  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:57 PM
Ricky Ricky is offline
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Thanks guys. It happens. I can't cry about what it sold for but I also can't honestly say that I'm not disappointed. Whoever got it will be able to flip it for a nice profit in a year or two, if they want. On the bright side, I bought it for only $30 back in the late '80s, so how much can I complain?

Can't believe what that E107 Lajoie went for, though!
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  #112  
Old 08-19-2019, 03:59 PM
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Where the hell was I in the 80s???

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Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
Thanks guys. It happens. I can't cry about what it sold for but I also can't honestly say that I'm not disappointed. Whoever got it will be able to flip it for a nice profit in a year or two, if they want. On the bright side, I bought it for only $30 back in the late '80s, so how much can I complain?

Can't believe what that E107 Lajoie went for, though!
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  #113  
Old 08-19-2019, 04:58 PM
bounce bounce is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Last night.... a number of them were.
Ryan - not really.

Peter - here's your answer.

Sort the auctions results by recent bids, pretty sure I did it correctly.
# of items with bids AFTER 11:58PM - 93 = 3.2% (2907 total lots)
# of items with bids AFTER 11:59PM - 72 = 2.5%

Of those 93 lots, 14 were top 100 items in prices, at $473k. The rest of the 93 were $212k. I'm sure some would get reallocated, but not all as the majority of that money was chasing very specific cards/lots. If you were after an E107 Lajoie, you weren't about to just pivot into eight T206 Ty Cobbs. Maybe another 5% of the auction would have been exposed to reallocation of funds? It's doubtful it's even that high, meaning well more than 90% of this auction was DONE well before "snipe" time.

There is no best way to end, otherwise everyone would do it like that and it would just be called "the way". "This way" works just fine.
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  #114  
Old 08-19-2019, 04:58 PM
TMKenKen TMKenKen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
Because if I have say 10 items I’m looking at and put high ceiling bids on each of them, what’s to say I don’t get run up on all of them and then I have 10 items at the max I was willing to spend on each, not thinking I could end up with all of them? I wouldn’t call not doing that lazy, but actually financially prudent.
I agree. Putting my best foot forward on several items means that I could get "run up" on each. Taken on an individual basis not so bad, but on an aggregate basis potentially financially imprudent. I have an order of priority on certain items that involves both a qualitative and quantitative analysis, much of which is dependent on relative pricing. That means that I have to stay involved over the entire auction in some instances. My wife already thinks I am nuts, but if I did what you is suggested, she would go ballistic. And I wouldn't blame her.

Last edited by TMKenKen; 08-20-2019 at 10:44 AM. Reason: To avoid Rules violations.
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  #115  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:01 PM
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David, I respectfully disagree with you and donít like ďthis wayĒ. It is what it is, and reasonable people can disagree.
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  #116  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:16 PM
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Somehow I donít know many people complaining about how Heritage ends theirs. But perhaps Iím mistaken. And for me if it doesnít change Iíll have to make a decision whether or not I choose to engage any longer. And I suspect I wonít be the only one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bounce View Post
Ryan - not really.

Peter - here's your answer.

Sort the auctions results by recent bids, pretty sure I did it correctly.
# of items with bids AFTER 11:58PM - 93 = 3.2% (2907 total lots)
# of items with bids AFTER 11:59PM - 72 = 2.5%

Of those 93 lots, 14 were top 100 items in prices, at $473k. The rest of the 93 were $212k. I'm sure some would get reallocated, but not all as the majority of that money was chasing very specific cards/lots. If you were after an E107 Lajoie, you weren't about to just pivot into eight T206 Ty Cobbs. Maybe another 5% of the auction would have been exposed to reallocation of funds? It's doubtful it's even that high, meaning well more than 90% of this auction was DONE well before "snipe" time.

There is no best way to end, otherwise everyone would do it like that and it would just be called "the way". "This way" works just fine.
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  #117  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:52 PM
bounce bounce is offline
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Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
Somehow I donít know many people complaining about how Heritage ends theirs.
not that many people are complaining about REA, and it's all basically "what if" scenarios. 97% is a pretty high bar. maybe i'll go back and look at some previous auctions and see how well that holds up.

I'm happy to complain about Heritage, but for a different reason. i live in texas, so sales tax makes them basically a non-event. i didn't even bother bidding this time, although i did create a watch list.
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  #118  
Old 08-19-2019, 05:54 PM
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I think Heritage's lot by lot works well for the higher end stuff (to get max value) but it's not great for the lower tier items.

Real example from yesterday... I was bidding on 5 photos and had them ranked in terms of desirability. My top one the early bidding was pretty strong so I decided to focus my entire budget to winning it and let the other ones close. By the time I realized I was clearly bidding against someone who seemed like they were going to win it at any price and my total budget had been surpassed, the other 4 photo lots were of course closed. I 100% would have bid on them if I knew I wasn't going to get my #1.

So again, great for the best items, not great for the secondary stuff.

I'm in the camp that there's no true best way and will adapt to each auction, with the exception of the 4am... 5am... 6am closes that are ridiculous.
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  #119  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Bicem View Post
I think Heritage's lot by lot works well for the higher end stuff (to get max value) but it's not great for the lower tier items.

Real example from yesterday... I was bidding on 5 photos and had them ranked in terms of desirability. My top one the early bidding was pretty strong so I decided to focus my entire budget to winning it and let the other ones close. By the time I realized I was clearly bidding against someone who seemed like they were going to win it at any price and my total budget had been surpassed, the other 4 photo lots were of course closed. I 100% would have bid on them if I knew I wasn't going to get my #1.

So again, great for the best items, not great for the secondary stuff.

I'm in the camp that there's no true best way and will adapt to each auction, with the exception of the 4am... 5am... 6am closes that are ridiculous.
Yes Jeff...

The scenario you laid out is exactly why I dislike the Heritage format. Nothing against Heritage, as many others are now using the "Lot by Lot" format as well. I just prefer the closing formats of Lelands, Grey Flannel, and especially LOTG, as they allow for more flexibility, as you so adeptly pointed out.

If I lived on the East Coast... then perhaps not as much. Perhaps this is our small compensation for never having the National nearby.
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  #120  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:16 PM
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The one thing that Heritage offers is certainty. If you really want an item or items you can bid till you win or are tapped out. In REA, you can be sniped at the end. That uncertainty bothers me a little, but the uncertainty also forces more up to bids, which is good for consignors.
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  #121  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:28 PM
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I like the 6pm EST extended bidding time and I like the 5 minutes limit. But I think it should be 5 minutes for each individual item, no bids in 5 minutes then that item closes and the rest remain open until no bids for 5 minutes. This would keep me at the computer for hours and leave probably early when all the items I was interested in ended.
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  #122  
Old 08-19-2019, 06:33 PM
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But Jeff, if they all closed at once and you realized at 11:59 you werenít going to get your first choice how would it be any different? I think all sides can make feasible arguments as to why a certain way works better and then the other side can show otherwise. So as not to change the basics of how REA ends their auction, why not just add a 1-2 minute extension for every item with bids after say 11:58 and more than likely it will all be ending shortly thereafter anyway. This way the format stays the same and the best and highest bid wins the item and not the best sniper. I understand why eBay with their thousands of auctions needs to end that way but for the 92 lots or whatever someone said that would still be going they will then end more fairly. More money to the consignor and fairer to the bidders as well I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicem View Post
I think Heritage's lot by lot works well for the higher end stuff (to get max value) but it's not great for the lower tier items.

Real example from yesterday... I was bidding on 5 photos and had them ranked in terms of desirability. My top one the early bidding was pretty strong so I decided to focus my entire budget to winning it and let the other ones close. By the time I realized I was clearly bidding against someone who seemed like they were going to win it at any price and my total budget had been surpassed, the other 4 photo lots were of course closed. I 100% would have bid on them if I knew I wasn't going to get my #1.

So again, great for the best items, not great for the secondary stuff.

I'm in the camp that there's no true best way and will adapt to each auction, with the exception of the 4am... 5am... 6am closes that are ridiculous.
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  #123  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
But Jeff, if they all closed at once and you realized at 11:59 you werenít going to get your first choice how would it be any different? I think all sides can make feasible arguments as to why a certain way works better and then the other side can show otherwise. So as not to change the basics of how REA ends their auction, why not just add a 1-2 minute extension for every item with bids after say 11:58 and more than likely it will all be ending shortly thereafter anyway. This way the format stays the same and the best and highest bid wins the item and not the best sniper. I understand why eBay with their thousands of auctions needs to end that way but for the 92 lots or whatever someone said that would still be going they will then end more fairly. More money to the consignor and fairer to the bidders as well I think.
In a funny way it would also eliminate the need for sniping since if you will be forced to fight it out, why not do it before midnight.
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  #124  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
But Jeff, if they all closed at once and you realized at 11:59 you werenít going to get your first choice how would it be any different? I think all sides can make feasible arguments as to why a certain way works better and then the other side can show otherwise. So as not to change the basics of how REA ends their auction, why not just add a 1-2 minute extension for every item with bids after say 11:58 and more than likely it will all be ending shortly thereafter anyway. This way the format stays the same and the best and highest bid wins the item and not the best sniper. I understand why eBay with their thousands of auctions needs to end that way but for the 92 lots or whatever someone said that would still be going they will then end more fairly. More money to the consignor and fairer to the bidders as well I think.
Oh I wasn't saying a midnight hard close was any better, just wanted to illustrate Heritage's lot by lot isn't perfect either.

Your hard close with a 2 min add-on for lots receiving a late bid sounds interesting, but agreed it should start earlier than midnight Eastern time.
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  #125  
Old 08-19-2019, 07:36 PM
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I also like the "Christie's" format the best. Saco River and I believe Hunt's uses it sometimes. I want to be pitted with my rival. Hit me with your best shot, then on to the next lot. REA should not announce a deadline. It should close at a random time after a set time. just my .02. Rob
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