Vintage Tickets - 1895 Omahogs Baseball - Value & Grading Advice Requested...

[meatloaf]

A friend of mine bought a bounded pack of 22 season tickets for the 1895 Omaha, NE Omahogs (see the pics below) recently from an estate sale for $400. The tickets are binded in a leather-like casing and appear to be a excellent condition. My friend does not know what he has here and is seeking information & advice from the message board in order to determine his next move.

Note: We are not a ticket collectors and know next to nothing about ticket grading, collecting, and market pricing. I think he has made out here, but I want to give him the best advice to move forward. His goal is to maximize resale value. His questions are...

1. Are these old baseball tickets rare? If so, in raw condition, what are they worth as single tickets or as a binded bunch?

2. Would you recommend he get these tickets graded by PSA? If so, should he detach each of the 22 tickets and submit as singles or leave everything together in the binding to submit as a pack of tickets? He wants to maximize resale value here.

3. Is there a real market for vintage tickets? If he wants to trade or resell, where should he go (other than Ebay)?

Thank you for your support. We look forward to getting your advice.

Meatloaf

Here is a link for information on the baseball club from 1895:
Link

[pgellis]

First of all, I am not a ticket expert, maybe someone who is on here will chime in with regard to value.

But I can answer some other questions.

1. First of all, I would leave the booklet alone. I would not detach the tickets. It will hold more value as a complete booklet. If a buyer wants to detach the tickets themselves, let them make that decision.

2. I would not submit the booklet (or individual tickets) to a grading service. I don't think that there is a need for that at all and would not add to any re-sale value.

3. I don't know how rare they are, but I assume this is quite rare in this non-detached state.

4. I would consign them to a major auction house where they can confirm the items authenticity on their own.

You will get potential buyers from several different genres. First from baseball ticket collectors, second from Omaha Omahogs collectors, and also from minor league baseball collectors, etc., etc.

[nebboy]

WOW

Being from Omaha I havn't seen any these before on the market. Any OmaHog baseball items a very hard to come across.

I will ask some of my friends in town and try to get you as much info as I can.

I would think the true value wuld be NOT parting something like that out and selling in a major sports auction. I'm sure you will get a lot of info and feedback on these from this board.

[slidekellyslide]

Ed (the owner of this booklet) called me yesterday...I told him NOT to tear those tickets out and I don't believe he will...that is one awesome ticket booklet.

[barrysloate]

Do not- repeat- do not tear this book apart and send the individual tickets to PSA. You're destroying a piece of history, and PSA knows nothing about them. What's the point of having them graded? It's a very nice piece, there are many advanced regional collectors who would love to have them, and they would keep them intact. Please don't destroy the book.

[meatloaf]

Thanks to all the advice so far. Ed listed them on Ebay as a booklet. PSA will only accept the tickets for grading as singles. So he has decided not to detach them. We will see where this goes. Ed is a great American and I hope he makes out on this. I really no zilch about tickets. I hope he finds the right market for them...I don't think ebay may be the answer. Meatloaf

[thecatspajamas]

"The first ticket in the booklet shows a little discoloration from being next to the cover for 116 years, but is still gradable. Many local and national authorities have looked at these tickets and mostly all of them suggest leaving them in the book, but that they could all be removed and graded."

Meatloaf, your buddy sure is fixated on the idea of having these graded. Better watch him!

Incidentally, I think the other guys on the board were right in advising him to go with a major auction house over listing the book on eBay. For one thing, you've got competition now:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...All-Categories

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

"The first ticket in the booklet shows a little discoloration from being next to the cover for 116 years, but is still gradable. Many local and national authorities have looked at these tickets and mostly all of them suggest leaving them in the book, but that they could all be removed and graded."

Meatloaf, your buddy sure is fixated on the idea of having these graded. Better watch him!

Incidentally, I think the other guys on the board were right in advising him to go with a major auction house over listing the book on eBay. For one thing, you've got competition now:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...All-Categories

Yes, you are 100% right! I think this is a test to see if anyone bites. However, it may cost him if they are worth more than $5k. Great advice here, TYVM. Meatloaf

[slidekellyslide]

Well, this is interesting..I wonder how many were found in this estate?

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Well, this is interesting..I wonder how many were found in this estate?

I wish I new! I wish it was me! Meatloaf

[drc]

I can promise you that each ticket is worth more than the $3-whatever that was paid for them.

Really great graphics on the tickets too. Many old tickets are plain. Those are beauts.

[Scott Garner]

I am late to the game contributing to this thread, but I just returned from a long business trip.

I'm a vintage baseball ticket guy of over 39 years, but I can't recall ever seeing any of these 1895 Omahog tickets or ticket books in my past. I whole-heartedly agree with some of the posts, i.e. to:

1) Leave the ticket booklet intact!!
2) Do not spend money to PSA grade tickets that are certainly self- explanatory given the context of the entire booklet
3) Graphics are both unusual, vintage and very cool!

That being said, placing a value on an item such as this is not easy given that is both scarce and may have a fairly narrow collector base. If this were a ticket book from the same vintage, but let's say a National League team, my gut is that this could possibly bring $2,000- $3,000 in an auction. If I were a collector of all things Omahogs, I could see paying perhaps $1,000- $1500 in a major auction. Like all things in an auction setting, you have to have multiple bidders participate in order to get top dollar. Most collectors would have difficulty trying to determine value.

I hope you find this helpful. No matter what, the booklet is a fantastic find and thanks for posting pictures!

[Jay Wolt]

After viewing Lance's link there is another ticket book available (#77), The OP's friend is #89.
Who knows, there could be multiples out there, so I'd wait to see what some have traded for.
Book #77 on eBay starts the bidding at $500 (w/ no bids as of now)
Book #89 had a Buy It Now at $5,000, and is no longer listed.

[slidekellyslide]

The guy who listed the $500 book says he has multiples...how many? Who knows? An entire box full of these things may have been found..Omaha had troubles that year and moved mid-season to Denver. I think they're extremely cool, but since Omaha is not my main focus I'll wait for the law of diminishing returns to set in.

[meatloaf]

Sent in the book to be graded. Below is a list of grades and scans of the pics. Probably going to sell some via ebay, others via a high end auction house, and keep the rest. PM if you want more info...

Submitted on 1/10/12 under the 20 day estimated service level. Popped moments ago (2/24/12). A bit overdue, but worth the wait. About what I expected. May be of interest for vintage ticket collectors. Great grades for 117 years old!!!!

Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type
1 1 19993032 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 2 19993033 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 3 19993034 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 4 19993035 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 5 19993036 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 6 19993037 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 7 19993038 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 8 19993039 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 9 19993040 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 10 19993041 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 11 19993042 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 12 19993043 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 13 19993044 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 14 19993045 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 15 19993046 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 16 19993047 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 17 19993048 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 18 19993049 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 19 19993050 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND Ticket
1 20 19993051 NEAR MINT 7 1895 OMAHA BASE BALL & ATHLETIC ASS'N-FULL FULL OMAHA OMAHOGS GRAND STAND ticket

[barrysloate]

So despite all the advice you received, you tore the book apart anyhow. What a shame.

[baseballart]

Very sad indeed.

[smotan_02]

You actually probably reduced the grade in the process of tearing them out of the book (small creases where you grabbed and where it tore). Also, now that there are 20 individual tickets versus 1 booklet makes them that much less rare and unappealing.

[Scott Garner]

He's has one ticket on eBay with a BIN of something like $5,000.
Give me a break! Good luck "Meatloaf"!

[Rob D.]

What a freaking waste.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

He's has one ticket on eBay with a BIN of something like $5,000.
Give me a break! Good luck "Meatloaf"!

actually it's a BIN at $9999.99 OBO......sad on multiple levels....


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1895-Basebal...-/320858311150



.
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[batsballsbases]

Looks like one word here GREED. But hay I guess we all have a little of that in all of us. But just a little.

[smotan_02]

"It comes encapsulated/sealed and has only seen one owner: Me."

How old are you?

[ibuysportsephemera]

The book as a whole was great, as individual tickets just another collectible. There might be a few regional collectors that would have interest, but IMO there is little historical value other than age to appeal to a broad group of collectors.

Jeff

[scooter729]

On the CU forum, I asked why the tickets were split up, and he said he kept one book together and split up the other.

So does that mean there were TWO books of these which were found??

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Looks like one word here GREED. But hay I guess we all have a little of that in all of us. But just a little.

Can you say Omahog?

[bobbvc]

Pathetic.

[meatloaf]

I own both books. Graded one; kept the other intact.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by scooter729

On the CU forum, I asked why the tickets were split up, and he said he kept one book together and split up the other.

So does that mean there were TWO books of these which were found??

Yes.

[smotan_02]

Ok, breaking up the booklet aside.
I think the tickets are great looking, Im just curious what you believe a reasonable offer is? I saw your ticket pop up in my ebay search list (before I saw these threads) and immediately moved on as it is way out of my realm for a single ticket.

I could see asking 3,4, even $500 for this ticket, but how did you come up with $10K (especially since you told us what you paid for all the tickets)?

d

[barrysloate]

Meatloaf- here's what troubles me:

I don't care that you are asking 10K for the ticket; that's between you and a potential buyer and it's not my business. But you describe it as super rare and that it would be the cornerstone of a collection. What you leave out is that you have a total of forty tickets, and that they originated from what can be considered a hoard found in 2011 (and there may have been more than two books found, I don't know).

Since any 19th century baseball ticket can be considered rare, the fact that there are forty or more of these now makes them rather common. Don't you feel an obligation to share this information in your description? Shouldn't a buyer make an educated decision based on the information known about it? Seems like calling it super rare is too much of an ethical stretch.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I agree with Scotty, they are nice tickets, but with 2 full booklets and many graded there is no scarcity. IMO, the price is at best a hundred to a few hundred each...spaced out over time so that they don't pop up on completed eBay searches.

Jeff

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Meatloaf- here's what troubles me:

I don't care that you are asking 10K for the ticket; that's between you and a potential buyer and it's not my business. But you describe it as super rare and that it would be the cornerstone of a collection. What you leave out is that you have a total of forty tickets, and that they originated from what can be considered a hoard found in 2011 (and there may have been more than two books found, I don't know).

Since any 19th century baseball ticket can be considered rare, the fact that there are forty or more of these now makes them rather common. Don't you feel an obligation to share this information in your description? Shouldn't a buyer make an educated decision based on the information known about it? Seems like calling it super rare is too much of an ethical stretch.

Sure, will do. I have it on ebay only to find out what people are willing to pay. The beauty of BIN/OBO is that I can set the price super high and see where the mean offers fall. More than likely I am going to send some of the tickets off to a high end auction house and let them take care of it. So they will provide the details on how they were obtained, total #, etc. I really don't care if it fails to sell on ebay. My game is gauging a price before choosing an auction house. I will hold onto the rest. So 40 exist...but only a hand full shall come up for sale. I read there are a lot of people judging me. That is fine. I love America and freedom of speech. I am not a scam artist and I don't collect for a living. It is a side hobby and also a side business, in which I have done well with my model. If others are critical of it, no problem.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Meatloaf- here's what troubles me:

I don't care that you are asking 10K for the ticket; that's between you and a potential buyer and it's not my business. But you describe it as super rare and that it would be the cornerstone of a collection. What you leave out is that you have a total of forty tickets, and that they originated from what can be considered a hoard found in 2011 (and there may have been more than two books found, I don't know).

Since any 19th century baseball ticket can be considered rare, the fact that there are forty or more of these now makes them rather common. Don't you feel an obligation to share this information in your description? Shouldn't a buyer make an educated decision based on the information known about it? Seems like calling it super rare is too much of an ethical stretch.

From your feedback, auction content updated. Like I said before, not my game to sell it via Fee-bay. Gauging the price. Thanks.

[barrysloate]

Thanks.

[RichardSimon]

Don't ya just love a guy who has made 20 or so posts, most offering sale items, none of which really gave advice, who comes on the board, asks for advice and then totally ignores the advice and destroys a true rarity.
Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

[smotan_02]

If you had the ticket for $750 BIN OBO, you may get a better sense of the true value. I would maybe offer you $200 with that BIN, but would not offer you $200 with a $10K bin. Of course, you may get lucky and find the one person willing to pay $750 or more.

Now the real question...are you lucky enough to find two people willing to pay?

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

If you had the ticket for $750 BIN OBO, you may get a better sense of the true value. I would maybe offer you $200 with that BIN, but would not offer you $200 with a $10K bin. Of course, you may get lucky and find the one person willing to pay $750 or more.

Now the real question...are you lucky enough to find two people willing to pay?

I guess that is the $10k question.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

Maybe he is friends with himself?


.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by richardsimon

don't ya just love a guy who has made 20 or so posts, most offering sale items, none of which really gave advice, who comes on the board, asks for advice and then totally ignores the advice and destroys a true rarity.
Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

+1000

[batsballsbases]

Meatloaf,
As a business man I can totally understand what you are trying to do. I guess we have to look at it as if we were in your shoes. Taking away the collector part of the equation(that is in most of us on this board) and looking at it more as a monitary model. But I guess the difference with me is what would be a fair price for the tickets. I dont believe 10,000 is that number. As most of the members have stated with your grading costs 250-600 at the max end? You said yourself your friend paid 400 for the book of 22 tickets. That comes to 18.18 each. Regardless of the fact of breaking up the book (you could have come on and told us that you found 22 loose tickets really doesnt matter) As a business man if you sold all 22 at lets say 300 each thats 6600 dollars. 500 would be 11,000. In this economy that would be a excellent return on your money. And also knowing that you have another book. Maybe you should have kept that info to yourself for awhile. But bottom line is I think you are getting caught up in the moment and not looking at it in real terms. either way once you pass you lets say 1000 (cost of the book and grading costs) you still stand to make a nice profit. Good luck with your endevor but dont be surprised if your lofty numbers are just that .

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

+1000

+1 Yikes!

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe he is friends with himself?


.

A local collector and I are in on them together.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Don't ya just love a guy who has made 20 or so posts, most offering sale items, none of which really gave advice, who comes on the board, asks for advice and then totally ignores the advice and destroys a true rarity.
Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

Richard,
In all fairness dont autograph guys take documents and autograph pages and cut them up? (and Im not saying thats right) Isnt that destroying little pieces of history also?
Food for thought also here is he has stated that he had 2 books of tickets wouldnt that now make the other booklet more valuable?

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Meatloaf,
As a business man I can totally understand what you are trying to do. I guess we have to look at it as if we were in your shoes. Taking away the collector part of the equation(that is in most of us on this board) and looking at it more as a monitary model. But I guess the difference with me is what would be a fair price for the tickets. I dont believe 10,000 is that number. As most of the members have stated with your grading costs 250-600 at the max end? You said yourself your friend paid 400 for the book of 22 tickets. That comes to 18.18 each. Regardless of the fact of breaking up the book (you could have come on and told us that you found 22 loose tickets really doesnt matter) As a business man if you sold all 22 at lets say 300 each thats 6600 dollars. 500 would be 11,000. In this economy that would be a excellent return on your money. And also knowing that you have another book. Maybe you should have kept that info to yourself for awhile. But bottom line is I think you are getting caught up in the moment and not looking at it in real terms. either way once you pass you lets say 1000 (cost of the book and grading costs) you still stand to make a nice profit. Good luck with your endevor but dont be surprised if your lofty numbers are just that .

Thanks for the solid advice. I got nothing to hide. I paid what I paid. many good points here. Thank you.

It appears I have offended the crowd on these boards. I shall just step away and move on. Thank you for your words. Semper Fi

[batsballsbases]

Alex,
Stick around and dont worry about offending anyone here. Believe me when it comes to questions like yours around here you must have a thick skin . When there is blood in the water sharks tend to bite a little around here!

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Alex,
Stick around and dont worry about offending anyone here. Believe me when it comes to questions like yours around here you must have a thick skin . When there is blood in the water sharks tend to bite a little around here!

Thanks, Al. I just don't like stirring the pot. I love the words. Very insightful. I am not a vintage collector. I do mostly modern autos. I actually don't collect much anymore. I am in the military and focus on my work. I am selling off my collection in order to reinvest into my home (NE) and cabin (NC). However, I go in on investment opportunities with buddies from time to time, such as this.

Alex

[batsballsbases]

Alex,
No problem. You came on and asked for advice. (I guess thats where some people have a problem) You deceided not to take it and break up the book. (Thats fine its yours to do what you wish with) Who are we to judge. If you make 20,000 or 2000 you made the choice and now stick with it. You might want to try an auction house with a few and see where it goes,might get lucky but to me as a business model put a fair price on them sell 20 keep 2 and take the profit and do another deal.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Alex,
No problem. You came on and asked for advice. (I guess thats where some people have a problem) You deceided not to take it and break up the book. (Thats fine its yours to do what you wish with) Who are we to judge. If you make 20,000 or 2000 you made the choice and now stick with it. You might want to try an auction house with a few and see where it goes,might get lucky but to me as a business model put a fair price on them sell 20 keep 2 and take the profit and do another deal.

Yeah, I am looking at Probstein123, Memory Lane, REA, Heritage, etc. I want to make sure it is worth it before committing. I need to do more investigation.

Any recommendations for vintage auctions houses that have a combination of the following: high hammer prices, low consignment % or fees, and quick/painless payment?

Alex

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by meatloaf

Yeah, I am looking at Probstein123, Memory Lane, REA, Heritage, etc. I want to make sure it is worth it before committing. I need to do more investigation.

Any recommendations for vintage auctions houses that have a combination of the following: high hammer prices, low consignment % or fees, and quick/painless payment?

Alex

Hi Devildog, thanks for your service. Im in the Army and work the same way, keep the collection low and make money when you can.

Ive never sold with any of those auctions, but as a ticket collector I will tell you that my favorite auctions to buy from are: Legendary and Lelands. They have a wide array of "non-cards" items that draws a wide viewership from people that buy those items. Others may disagree with me, but Ive spent more money at Leland on items than I would on eBay due to the rarity and the fact that I was buying quality. If Lelands or Legendary tells me something is rare, it goes further than if someone on eBay tells me the same thing.