Insurance Appraisals

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Posted By: Mark C.

I know that there have been threads before about insuring vintage card collections and about appraisals prior to sales. My question is about appraisals for insurance purposes (perhaps there has been a thread about this too and I missed it...if so, please point me in the right direction). My insurance company will insure my collection, but needs a signed appraisal for the top 20 or so most valuable cards. There are only a couple of card shops in the Memphis area, and none have been willing to sign off on an appraisal. Should I be looking for a different insurance company, or should I be looking for a different way to get them appraised? (And sending them off in the mail isn't really a very palatable option.) Thanks for your help.

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Posted By: Matt

What sort of qualifications must the appraiser have? I'm not aware of any program of certification of baseball card appraisers. If they just need anyone to sign off on a value, use your brother-in-law.

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Posted By: Mark C.

Good question. The only guidance that I got from the agent was that they have credentials / experience that would give the underwriter confidence that the appraiser knew what they were talking about. Since there isn't an appraiser certification (like there is for jewelry and stuff like that) I would argue that someone who runs a card shop or auctions or a dealer or someone like that would work.

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Posted By: Anthony

Are the cards graded or raw? If they are graded, couldn't you just use realized prices? VCP will run out a spreadsheet once you input them in your collection.
If they are raw and it's only a few dozen, why not have them slabbed for appraisal purposes?

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Posted By: Matt

Mark - I don't disagree with your assertion that someone who runs a card shop might know better, but as far as needing to meet the requirement of the insurance company, since there is no such certification, it's arbitrary that they would require "someone who works in a card shop." Who says that card shop even sells vintage cards?

I'm assuming you have a good idea of what they're worth and you're just asking how to fulfill the insurance companies requirement. If you wanted a real appraisal for yourself, that's a different story.

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Posted By: JK

Mark,

I would recommend that you not use your insurance company for your cards and instead look at a agency (CIA) like collectibles insurance company. They are in the business of insuring cards and do so without the need for an appraisal or an inventory (which is helpful if you buy and/or sell a lot). All you need to do to prove a loss is provide proof of ownership (I keep scans and sales receipts) and then provide a reasonable estimate of replacement cost (this can be done via Vintage Card Pricer, ebay, your own purchase records, etc). The only cards that need to be specifically scheduled are those valued at over 5,000. I cant recall who they use to underwrite the policy, but its a AAA rated company (or whatever signifies the highest rating in the insurance industry).

Disclosure - I have my cards insured via CIA and have no stake in the company.

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Posted By: andy becker

CIA is the way to go. josh is correct, only need to list 5k plus cards and an overall value of your collection.
i think they use hartford or travlers to underwrite.

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Posted By: leon

They are in our links section.....though I don't think they have one to our site .....

http://www.network54.com/Index/36815

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I believe to be a professional appraiser, the ones an insurance company uses, you need to be certified or or be members of specific groups, sort of like being a member of the AMA. I'm not sure of the acceptable groups, but you can find them out. The certification in part means the insurance company will know they aren't just making up prices. You can likely contact many certified appraisers in your area. You can also bring them the opinion of a card dealer or auctioneer as to the values, and they may go along with the info you bring. The appraiser may not be an expert in cards but, as is normal with appraising, uses their own knowledge along with outside info (price guides, other opinions, etc). In other words, it may be a formality of the appraiser okaying the prices you show.

Other than an appraiser, you might be able to use the opnion of a reputable auctioneer. Not only will it be obvious to the insurer than an auction house is familiar with prices, but I believe that most auction houses have to have a license with their state, so are 'certified' in a way. Even if their opinion isn't considered 'official,' this info could be what you bring to the appraiser to be okayed.

You can also use info from SMR, price guides, those price guide websites as data to back up the opinion for the insurer.

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Posted By: J Levine

I too use CIA and am very happy with the service.

I have also done appraisals for people including a couple for insurance purposes. I had to provide proof that I was a collector of some knowledge including two written affadavits from store front dealers. I had to include a sort of bio. about myself and my collection and my area of expertise in baseball cards. This was many years ago and not sure if even that would pass today. Not all insurance companies will even accept these and require a certification (like art dealers get).

Joshua

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Posted By: Mark C.

Thanks for the recommendations. Is there some benefit to CIA over a "regular" insurance company besides not requiring appraisals? Looking through the rate schedule, it appears that CIA is about 4x the quote I got from State Farm for the same amount of coverage.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

This thread says someone on this board should get an appraiser's license so he can appraise others' collections for insurance purposes. Perhaps someone at one of those price guide sites. Rich Klein, with a resume that would include former Beckett Price Guide Editor, would be a natural. I know to get a license you have to have a certain amount of working experience in your field, ala working at a jewelry store to be a diamond appraiser. If having been a price guide editor at Beckett isn't suitable experience, I don't know what would be.

Mark, you should contact the auction houses and see if they can appraise your cards for you. I bet you'll be able to find someone who can do it for you officially. For example, I believe Mike Gutierrez at Heritage has done appraisals of famous collections. I know James Spence does appraisals for insurance purposes, though he obviously specializes in autographs. As mentioned before, the auction houses at the least would be state licensed as auction houses.

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Posted By: JK

Mark,

I'd be shocked if insurance via a regular insurance company was cheaper than cia. Usually its just the opposite. Are you sure the quote you rec'd was not a 6 mo. premium (I know my auto insurance is always quoted for 6 months). Some advantages that I can think of off the top of my head - no inventory is required by cia (in other words, you dont have to send a letter to cia every time you buy or sell a card). CIA covers cards being shipped(state farm may as well, but many only cover losses at your home). CIA specializes in cards and other collectibles and, IMO, is more likely to payout without a hassle if you experience a loss. CIA also covers full replacement cost up to your policy limits - you may want to make sure that the regular agency does the same. Finally, I still consider cia a "regular" insurance agency since they use hartford or some other big insurer to underwrite their policies.

You may want to search some prior threads that discuss insurance on this board - some good info.

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Posted By: Josh Evans

Hi:
As a member of the Appraiser’s Association of America since the late 1980s, I have appraised many collections of note including that of Steve Carlton, Jackie Robinson (for his wife Rachel Robinson) and many for private collectors. I have given several talks at the Appraiser’s conferences since my early days there including one this year. My rates start at $1,500 a day for collections with individual pieces being less. My appraisals can be used for insurance, IRS and other purposes and they have always passed the test for these organizations. Actually I enjoy doing them and you can email if you are interested.

Joshua Leland Evans
Chairman
Lelands.com
jevans@optonline.net

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Posted By: JK

No offense Josh, but at 1500 per day, there is perhaps the best reason to go with CIA.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

When we first began to add significant pieces to our collection, we contacted
our insurance broker. The broker looked at four companies and decided
that Chubb was the appropriate insurance company for our collection.

Chubb asked us to list all items with a value in excess of $1000 separately
and that we obtain two appraisals which commented on the overall value
of the collection.

We worked with Rob Lifson and Bill Mastro. Since we were preferred customers
of both of these fellows (long before they had their businesses) at the time,
they did not charge an appraisal fee.

We have now worked with Chubb for more than 25 years. Whilst we have only
filed two claims during that period of time (cards stolen- one at a show and
one at home), we have found the Chubb people to be particularly knowledgeable
with regard to high value rare items.

Chubb insures many of the world's leading private art and coin collections
and is very comfortable in working with ultra rare and valuable material.

Whilst their rates are higher than some smaller dedicated firms, their ratings,
service and attention to detail are without parallel.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List