Help with T207 - Newbie collector - enter at your own risk!

[ghooper33]

Hello all - I have been a lurker for some time now and I would like to be taken to school on the T207 set. Searching these forums have been a wealth of information but I have a few "101" questions about this set.

They say there are no dumb questions - time to put this theory to the test!

• Do the horizontal cards command more of a premium?
• How many different backs are there other than the Recruit, Cycle, Broadleaf, and Red Cross?
• Were these distributed regionally (other than the Red Cross backs)
• I read that the Irving Lewis cards and the Louis Lowdermilk are expensive "commons" but are there other commons that are difficult to find?
• Any other comments for a beginner collector of this set?

[HRBAKER]

This may help.
Good luck.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=T207

[ghooper33]

Of course this is a great opportunity to show off some T207 scans!

I have only a dozen cards, but here are a few I have found. I know it is economically better to buy in lots, but I am buying one at a time because I am finding great value in enjoying each card as it arrives and researching the player.

[ghooper33]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

This may help.
Good luck.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=T207

Thanks Jeff - I missed this thread in searching the forums!

[kmac32]

You left out anonymous backs. Also the expensive Ward Miller and Vic Saier cards are really tough. Those two cards alone can break the bank.

[marcdelpercio]

The T207's are one of the least understood and most challenging of all major tobacco issues. It tends to inspire a "love it or hate it" response out of most collectors. I'm guessing that by your post, you fall more towards the former (as do I). There are a few hardcore T207 fans on the board so I'm sure they will weigh in as well.

To try to answer your questions:

Within the T207 set, there are 150 cards that appear with only Recruit, Napoleon, or Anonymous Factory 3 backs. There are many levels of scarcity within this group and some of these cards are quite difficult (although none are in probably the top 20 toughest overall in the set).

There are another 50 cards that appear with only Broadleaf, Cycle, Red Cross, and Anonymous (Factory 3 or 25) backs. These are generally referred to as the "Broadleaf/Cycle class" cards. ALL of these cards are very difficult although a few such as O. Miller, Herzog and Gregg appear slightly more often, which is still rarely. The Broadleaf/Cycle group contains all of the very toughest cards in the set such as Donlin, Donnelly, Downey, Pelty, and Mogridge (as well as Lewis, Saier and W. Miller that were mentioned) and many of these almost never appear for sale. Ironically, the Lowdermilk, population-wise, is one of the (relatively) most common of this group although remains one of the most expensive cards in the set.

There is only one horizontal card in the set, Jack Barry, and this card generally commands a very slight premium although it is quite common.

There is an excellent previous thread that discusses possible distribution of the set, so definitely search that one out if you haven't already. Also, Tim Newcomb wrote and published an outstanding article on the set that originally appeared in the February 2004 #37 and June 2004 #38 issues of VCBC magazine.

Overall, completion of this set would be an impressive feat and a challenge that would likely take years as many of these cards very rarely appear for sale individually. There are a good 75-80 difficult cards in the set. That said, the set is surely one of my favorites and is truly like no other, for better or worse.

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Also, Tim Newcomb wrote and published an outstanding article on the set that originally appeared in the February 2004 #37 and June 2004 #38 issues of VCBC magazine.

I second these article's by Tim. Very informative!

[DaveW]

I can't add much that hasn't been said above, but if you want to see pictures of all the cards and get a checklist (without back info) you can check out:
http://www.vintagecardtraders.org/vi...t207/t207.html

I love this set.

[kmac32]

Hey Ghooper,

How many cards do you have from this set? Which players do you have?

[caramelcard]

I started collecting T207 by accident about 10 years ago. I bought a small lot of t206 cards that had 3 or 4 t207 in there. As time went by I started to appreciate the poses more and more. Hard to describe, but for me the set really represents the roughness of the time period and the brown backgrounds with small hints of color are actually really ornate when you handle the cards in person. The fact that so many of the cards are tough to find has allowed me to enjoy the set even more. Most of the hall of fame players are plentiful, but lots of folks probably tossed some of the really common players not to mention the broadleaf class of cards which were less plentiful even during the period. I'm down to two cards to complete it and would love to upgrade a few as well.

There seems to be a lot less of them for sale lately. I'm guessing that's due to the economy, but I would imagine as more tobacco collectors begin this set the demand for the tougher cards will increase even more.

Rob

[tbob]

I think the best judges of which T207 cards are extremely tough and hard to find are the T207 set collectors who have struggled patiently to put the set together. Marc did a really good job (above) of detailing some of the highlights and answering the questions, I'd just add that some of the toughest "commons" (Recruit, Napoleon and Anon. backs) include Block, Ellis, Graham, and the variation cards which include wrong backs, only a few of which have ever been documented but several "couplings" exist.
It's a great set and even though several stars of the day were left out, it is a classic, full of mystery and "what ifs."

[Bridwell]

I'm another fan of T207. I had collected T206 and 1909-11 cards for over 20 years before getting hooked on T207. It's interesting that most of the T207 players were not on a T206 card, even though T207's were issued in 1912. Collecting the 200 different cards in the basic set is really a challenge. Some poses will show up in auctions 20 times in a year while other poses you get maybe one shot a year at.

[ullmandds]

The T207 set is quite interesting for many of the reasons already stated...the unusual array of players...many of whom don't appear in other sets of the era...the rarities...of which there are many compared to t205/t206. And while the brown backgrounds are kinda drab...many of the images are quite beautiful and striking...combined with back variations...this is quite an interesting set...which in the past has not enjoyed the popularity of other T sets...but someday...maybe it will.

This is one of my favorite cards from the set!

[ghooper33]

I know it is probably anecdotal, but during my small timeframe of collecting these cards I have been able to pick up 1-2 a week. I am collecting the T205 set with a buddy of mine, and we expect to complete this in a couple of years but I hope this set will keep me busy for the next ten years. I have four friends now who are all in our mid-30s who have began to collect pre-war cards – I wonder how many new collectors it takes to influence the market for a set like the T207’s?

Thanks again for all of the information / comments. Since I am new I am taking in information as if it was coming out of a fire hose. To be honest we are all a little intimidated by the knowledge on this board, so I really appreciate the warm comments and help. It is communities like this that help usher in the new generation of collectors.

[ghooper33]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Hey Ghooper,

How many cards do you have from this set? Which players do you have?

Hi Ken - I can check the players when I get home from work, but I only have around 15 cards so far.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ghooper33

I know it is probably anecdotal, but during my small timeframe of collecting these cards I have been able to pick up 1-2 a week. I am collecting the T205 set with a buddy of mine, and we expect to complete this in a couple of years but I hope this set will keep me busy for the next ten years. I have four friends now who are all in our mid-30s who have began to collect pre-war cards – I wonder how many new collectors it takes to influence the market for a set like the T207’s?

Thanks again for all of the information / comments. Since I am new I am taking in information as if it was coming out of a fire hose. To be honest we are all a little intimidated by the knowledge on this board, so I really appreciate the warm comments and help. It is communities like this that help usher in the new generation of collectors.

Hi Greg
First of all I too would like to extend a warm welcome to you. We all understand the "drinking from a fire hose" analogy. When I first started, around 15 yrs ago, I couldn't believe every one I met knew all of the ACC#'s and players to each set. It was absolutely overwhelming. Think of it a little bit like starting a new job (only more fun). When you first start you get really tired at first as there is information overload. Then as time goes by, and you learn more about what you are doing, it becomes second nature. The fun thing about this hobby is that you don't ever have to stop learning if you don't want to. There is an infinite amount of things to learn and ways to collect. As you have more time in, you will meet some really awesome people too. I would safely say that over 99% of collectors are good people. I am sure you aren't naive though and any time there is considerable money involved there will be bad people too. This board has a way of ferreting out a lot of them. Lastly, and I think you have already mentioned it, this is a marathon race and not a sprint. Take your time and try to be patient. Good luck, glad to have you here and happy collecting!!

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

I started collecting T207 by accident about 10 years ago. I bought a small lot of t206 cards that had 3 or 4 t207 in there. As time went by I started to appreciate the poses more and more. Hard to describe, but for me the set really represents the roughness of the time period and the brown backgrounds with small hints of color are actually really ornate when you handle the cards in person. The fact that so many of the cards are tough to find has allowed me to enjoy the set even more. Most of the hall of fame players are plentiful, but lots of folks probably tossed some of the really common players not to mention the broadleaf class of cards which were less plentiful even during the period. I'm down to two cards to complete it and would love to upgrade a few as well.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Of course everything you say is true .

Just wanted to point out to the OP in terms of HOFers that the Speaker and the Hooper are tougher cards, and pretty expensive when they pop up.

Cheers,
Blair

[caramelcard]

Good call Blair.

Hooper, Speaker, and Wallace are harder to find in that recruit hof class.

Speaker is easier then the other two in my opinion, but is well sought after because people like the Red Sox for some reason.

Rob

[frohme]

Welcome to Net54, Greg!

I think the other hard-core T207 collectors (you all know who you are ) have covered things pretty well. Learn as much as you can from all the sources you can find - Tim (and Bob's) VCBC articles and previous Net54 threads are great resources. Leon's description to your "drinking from a firehose" analogy is sound advice - take your time and enjoy the learning... but it sounds like you're already doing that.

Its one of those sets that someone - I think it was tbob - described as a "labor of love" trying to assemble. There are a good number of folks on the board that have completed it - some multiple times, I believe. I suspect each has his/her own story of the joy(?) of getting there, and can tell you precisely which cards tormented them to the end... many/most(?) have been mentioned in the thread already. If it wasn't obvious already, T207 remains my favorite set - my avatar was my tormentor. I believe it took me about 5 years to complete.

As for your question about how many new collectors it takes to influence the market, it really depends. One or two is sufficient in most cases, but for some specific cards, none... the need is still great among existing collectors. You'll come to know which cards those are over time...

Looking forward to hearing of your progress.
--
Mike

[William Todd]

Greg, My best to you in your quest. I am a T207 addict and am trying to recover as it can totally encompass you. It is a great set, and having almost completed the t206 set and then moved on, I have trouble leaving T207. I have most of the Broadleaf class variations and was lucky to get many of Lionel Carters cards to improve my set that I feel that may be somewhat unique. When you find cards in good condition in this set it is truly rare. Good luck as they are probably out there.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

people like the Red Sox for some reason.

Rob