M101-2 Sporting News Supplements: Gaining more attention, discuss

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by raulus

If they reject it and refuse to grade it, they often won't charge you. There's probably some exceptions to this rule, but it has been my experience. For example, from time to time my pack-pulled 1987T are ruled to not meet the minimum size requirement, and they don't charge me.

So you might not actually be out $100 if they won't slab it.

That’s right, you should not be charged, however you’ll be out the cost to ship.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

PSA has rejected (No Grade result) cards which have evidence of scrapbook remanence affixed to even what seems a clean back.

Rejected or no grade? Those are different results. Scrapbook residue can result in no numerical grade, the fee charged and an Auth designation.

[GregMitch34]

I guess "altered" is only for adding tape to close up tears (common with this issue)?

[GregMitch34]

One might say that this issue is so "hot" now we have a new sepia reprint listing at eBay....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145313370455

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

One might say that this issue is so "hot" now we have a new sepia reprint listing at eBay....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145313370455

Those are some pretty awesome looking reprints! Worth considering…

[GregMitch34]

The seller of those reprints tells me they are indeed accurate size (about 8 x 10) and the images are off real ones that have been for sale--so they have the usual nicks and tears and creasing (at least in appearance). So they look more real if far from pristine. From the backs, though, you can tell for sure they are not real.

[GregZakwin]

Absolutely love 'em

[GregMitch34]

If this isn't the best image it is at least tied for first.... Clark Griffith....and 8 x10 size....why I got into these, though belatedly...

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1695471630

[KCRfan1]

Is there a preference for the tab at the top to be attached?

Would this be a " value added " feature or is this a non issue in collecting?

[GregMitch34]

there is no tab

the first few produced in 1909 (Cobb, LaJoie, Bresnahan etc.) have a slightly different design with date and Sporting News at very top but it is not a "tab"

[todeen]

My one and only. Net54 member sold me his double a few years ago after he upgraded. Wish it was signed though. that's a cool piece above. 20230923_104316.jpg

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[KCRfan1]

Thank you Greg!

I appreciate the clarification!

[TheBig6]

My one and only, probally would just grade a 1.

[robertsmithnocure]

Thanks for sharing these images. These supplementals are pretty special. I know that they have recently risen in value, but I think that they still have some upside, especially on the top shelf players like Cobb, Jackson and Wagner. They are pretty rare to find in decent condition.

[Rhotchkiss]

Question for you supplements guys- how much, if any, does the recent rise in M101-2 values, which I think is almost exclusively due to PSA slabbing (legitimizing) them, impact the value and desirability of their rarer M101–1 predecessors?

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Question for you supplements guys- how much, if any, does the recent rise in M101-2 values, which I think is almost exclusively due to PSA slabbing (legitimizing) them, impact the value and desirability of their rarer M101–1 predecessors?

I feel like M101-1 and M101-2 Sporting News are for completely different collectors. Prices vary significantly for each, as do the images. Both are amazing sets IMHO.

An 1899 Nap Lajoie M101-1 went for over $2K in August and was a BEAUTIFUL card. That same $2K has much more buying power of the M101-2 set. I personally love M101-2 because of the action images, which for their release between 1909 and 1913 made you feel like you were on the field watching a moment from a game, when games were much more difficult to get to in that time period.

That said, I foresee rising prices of M101-1 just like M101-2, if more could actually come to market like has been the case with M101-2 in recent years, and thus create more demand and buyers.

[puckpaul]

I agree that both will continue to be more appreciated and appreciate, and the M101-1 will garner more attention due to the rise and acceptance of M101-2. Personally I have been stunned by the beautiful imagery of some of the M101-2 set, many of which have been in rough condition due to size and paper stock, like the M101-1s have. In fact, i purchased the recent Grover Alexander “rookie” from that set and paid for it.

The majesty of the M101-1s in nice condition remains very underappreciated. The portraits are stunning in person. I had both of these Wagners in my collection for years. Never gave two thoughts about the M101-2 until the recent price realizations. There is still no comparison, not just because of the significance of Wagner’s first ML “card” appearance and biography, but because the image is so beautiful in person.

I have come to like the M101-2 much more lately than i had! (Mine does have some pencil notation on the back but the supplement is very well preserved).

Hoping the M101-2 success causes PSA to grade the M101-1s someday.

[GregMitch34]

Very nice. Yes, I imagine the M101-1s are next...of course, players in suits and not in uniforms may dissuade some...although one favorite M101-2s that I have is the Tigers team all in suits...including Ty with bow-tie... Bow-Ty?

The Alexander "rookie card" remains debated but since I have one I firmly back the idea....prices certainly have weighed in on that.....some claim the same for the Speaker........

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Question for you supplements guys- how much, if any, does the recent rise in M101-2 values, which I think is almost exclusively due to PSA slabbing (legitimizing) them, impact the value and desirability of their rarer M101–1 predecessors?

If PSA slabs it, it rises in value.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

I foresee rising prices of M101-1 just like M101-2, if more could actually come to market like has been the case with M101-2 in recent years, and thus create more demand and buyers.

I hope you are right, because I just cut a deal for this. I will post in pick-ups thread when in hand

[GregMitch34]

Looks like those Beckett jumbo holders are better than horrid earlier ones. One reason prices have spiked for PSA graded m101-2s is they look so much better in their holders than earlier Beckett ones. Although far harsher grading....

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I hope you are right, because I just cut a deal for this. I will post in pick-ups thread when in hand

Great card! Opinions are my own and do not constitute investment advice, nor should be taken as such. The risk of loss in buying and selling sports cards can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such activity is suitable for you, your circumstances, your risk appetite, and financial resources. I hereby absolve myself from all future claims of responsibility. So on and so forth…

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I hope you are right, because I just cut a deal for this. I will post in pick-ups thread when in hand

Great card...yeah I call it a card. If PSA graded these things they would be worth more but nice addition.

[Bobsbats]

Funny, I had a M101-1 Griffith with me at the show in Oaks this past weekend and the representative for Beckett told me they don't grade them...never have. When I showed him my M101-1 Billy Hamilton graded by Beckett, he then said...we can give it a shot, but if they don't do it, I still had to pay to have it shipped back.

I still have the Griffith.

[mouschi]

I have much to say about my journey with the M101-2s .... as someone who comes from the 1989 bowman generation, I used to loathe anything larger than 2.5x3.5" ...

then I learned of the M101-2s. Gahh, it was love at first sight, especially when a near set landed at an auction house. I watched like a hawk, and felt pretty good about my chances on landing it within a reasonable price so I could then break apart and sell the pieces I didn't want. (The Joe Jackson and Wagner/Cobb were my two favorites).

Then it kept going up & up & up.

I ended up not being the winner, and was about as heartbroken as you can be over losing an auction. Then, they started popping up on ebay - the buyer was breaking them up too! I snagged the 2 I wanted, along with the WaJo.


On the Jackson & Wagner/Cobb, they are graded as "authentic" and didn't get a numerical grading, because the auction house (REA I think?) was told they'd get a low number, and don't have any reason to believe they were altered.

Oh, and the Wagner/Cobb was the first one graded, and I believe the Jackson was second or third.





My gosh ... they are beautiful.

This one is altered, as it had sporting news cut out and placed in the top center ... I didn't even notice it until a while after I had it. To the 10 year old back in 1911 who probably did it - well done.



So naturally, after my eyes were opened to how amazing oversized pieces can be for display, I heard of a Nap Lajoie rookie from something called an M101-1 ... like I'll ever see one of those, heh.

Then someone posted a Wagner. Jaw. Dropped. A 19th century Wagner rookie? What on earth? I had no idea it existed. I was able to make a deal on one years ago, and it is one of my most prized pieces in my very small collection.



So yeah, PSA - get on the M101-1 ball!

[GregMitch34]

Ha, ha, PSA somehow missed the "altered" on that WaJo...

[DodgerMike22]

WOW! Those are AMAZING!!! I have the M101-2 Wagner by himself. I hope to someday get the Cobb/Wagner and Jackson

[GregMitch34]

Dodger Mike, they are both available on eBay....for a price......

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Dodger Mike, they are both available on eBay....for a price......

Well…those are certainly some aspirational prices!! Lol

[T206Collector]

More from the Doc Steen collection…

[mouschi]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

More from the Doc Steen collection…

incredible!!!

[GregMitch34]

Another beauty that I recently obtained, Chief Bender....


https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1695914883

[clydepepper]

1910 Sporting News Suppliment Joe Tinker.jpg

[GregMitch34]

Love the Tinker, as I noted earlier, one of most unusual images in all of "card" world--and nearly 8 x 10 to boot.

Here he is in front row, third from left. This hangs in my bedroom, BTW. Sepia never more thrilling.


https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1696000810

[GregMitch34]

Interesting test cases over at Heritage closing tonight.

There's a BGS 4.5 Addie Joss selling well above its estimate. As usual, PSA's grade (based on my experience) would be much lower due to corner wear. However, unlike most, it seems to have no tiny tears or nicks or creases so my guess would be (an unfairly harsh) PSA 2--if scan is accurate. Still, the current bids there are in line with that potential re-grading but we'll see where it ends up.

The Joe Jackson appears--to me--to be a rare case where the BGS grade would be pretty much in line with PSA. It's pretty clean and, in fact, looks superior to the Joss. It may be that BGS is tightening up its grading or, more likely, I am missing something in the scans. But this could get the same grade from PSA, almost a first on these...but again, will be interesting to see where price winds up...

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1696017338

[michael3322]

Clearly there is strong interest in M101-2's, regardless of the holder they are in.

The results speak for themselves.

1909-13 M101-2 Sporting News Supplement Joe Jackson BGS Fair 1.5
$9,900


1909-13 M101-2 Sporting News Supplement Addie Joss BGS VG-EX+ 4.5....

$2,200

[brunswickreeves]

Incredible, nearly $10K for Joe Jackson’s M101-2 grail card, remaining the undisputed key to the set. There’s one on eBay (for now) for less than half that price:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276060931395

[mrreality68]

Just curious does the salad affect the value or what? This PSA 1.5 on HA sold in May of this year and it went for $16,200 or was this a spike in price? Or what?
and even a PSA 1 in 2021 that sold for almost 13K from Memory Lane

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../50062-50168.s

https://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/...e?itemid=60723

[GregMitch34]

As I've noted, BGS prices nowadays are always much lower than PSA for comparable gradings. So not surprising the BGS Jackson went for far less than recent PSA 1.5 last night. And the Joss BGS 4.5 went for 2200 -- vs. recent 3000 for a PSA 2. I had written above that I'd judge that BGS Joss as maybe a PSA 2 so the price last night not bad, probably. But, yes, BGS prices have also soared. Just figure on lower grades if you ask PSA to re-grade......

[mouschi]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Just curious does the salad affect the value or what? This PSA 1.5 on HA sold in May of this year and it went for $16,200 or was this a spike in price? Or what?
and even a PSA 1 in 2021 that sold for almost 13K from Memory Lane

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../50062-50168.s

https://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/...e?itemid=60723

Iirc the 16k one was nicer condition. The 13k was also psa.

[mrreality68]

Appreciate the insight and I am biased as I was the winner of this one and I was very happy with the price and love the eye appeal

[mouschi]

Congratulations, Jeff - that is a STUNNER!

[calvindog]

Jeff, will you try to cross it? It looks pristine on all the edges.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Jeff, will you try to cross it? It looks pristine on all the edges.

In the short term no. But long term I might consider it since the values are higher thru PSA just not sure how they would grade it the same or lower

[GregMitch34]

Jeff: After gaining a lot of experience in past year, I noted earlier that I thought this might be a rare case where the PSA grade might match the BGS grade. But can't tell without seeing card in hand....Some look great and then you notice, as I'm sure you know, when held to light and and put at angle, a back crease shows up which, unfairly, PSA then knocks these down to a "1." Absurd but true...But this even as a PSA 1 worth what you paid for it, in my view....

[calvindog]

I suppose when trying to cross to PSA one can ask for a number grade as a minimum. And in the case of the Jackson, a cross from a 1.5 Beckett to a PSA 1 is a solid result. The bigger issues are when Beckett has graded the cards a 3 or higher. At that point I’m not sure if a cross to a PSA 1 or 1.5 is worth it.

[mrreality68]

Thanks Greg and Jeff for your knowledge and insights.
I will definitely consider at some point.
But I agree I have to get it in hand to take a better look. The photos do not always show everything.
Regardless I am excited to get this and this copy

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Thanks Greg and Jeff for your knowledge and insights.
I will definitely consider at some point.
But I agree I have to get it in hand to take a better look. The photos do not always show everything.
Regardless I am excited to get this and this copy

Again congrats as I stated on IG. Beautiful eye appeal I love it.

[GregMitch34]

Happy to have this--we share an alma mater....Hughie Jennings, same...

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1696303377

[GregMitch34]

Just an update: M101-2 cards continue to arrive regularly on ebay, in auctions or buy now, mainly raw but probably due to recent surge in prices, mainly for graded HOFers. As usual with these fragile issues, condition is usually quite flawed, but of course, still great images and large size. I had raised issue earlier of whether it was true, as some claim, that now we will see a great number of them in terrific condition, raw or graded, and at high price emerge as longtime collectors break them out in response to spike in value.

However, in contrast, I guessed that we might not see this sudden (or even eventual) appearance of high-condition versions because:

1) most of the collectors, from comments and evidence, have been happy to collect these over the years in often not great condition--or what appears to be great condition but by PSA's current too-tough standard for these (any tiny nick or crease knocks them down to a "2" or less) not likely to earn top dollar.

2) there aren't that many collectors anyway--and probably most are generally not interested in ever getting them graded (or even selling them).

3) a number of large collections (from 67/100 to 99/100) have been sold at auction houses in past year. But with one buyer's exception, versions that have emerged from them so far have, again, gotten very low PSA grades--or mainly been sold raw via ebay in very poor or so-so condition. Again, it's a case of cards that look great but even the tiniest flaw knocks down PSA grade--and people have mainly only paid high price for HOFers with decent grade.

4) It's possible that some with BGS versions with good grades (4 and above) will now break them out for PSA grades and it will be interesting to see what grades they get. I am guessing--in most cases, disappointing. And I have not heard yet of anyone doing this but it will be fascinating to learn the results. And, of course, PSA may even find a few were trimmed etc.

5) Raw cards with obvious flaws are selling at very good prices (compared to past) right now anyway.

6) Of course, all of this is just my opinion based on close study of past year and would be curious to read any responses.