Exercise Caution dealing w/Shawn Martin

[ullmandds]

I won this one day auction from Shawn Martin of the BST side a few weeks ago.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180900

In a nutshell, here is what happened:

-Auction ended on 12/31 at 9 pm $70
-After numerous inquiries on my part, On Jan2, I received this email:

Pete,
That card was part of a group of cards I won at auction and wanted to flip. I did not receive this card with the lot that came yesterday. I am in contact with the seller and will let you know what I find out, if you are still interested.
Shawn

-After a handful of emails inquiring as to the whereabouts of this card I received this email:

From what I was told, the Rose card is supposed to be in the mail however I was not provided with a tracking #.. If I do in fact receive it you will be notified first since you won the auction. Please don't report this to Leon, I have had nothing but positive transactions on the site. I apologize for this mess up.
Shawn

-And after my last inquiry, I received this:

No Rose card. I suspect its not coming. Will let you know if it shows up

Personally I think Shawn has sellers remorse...and is conveniently renegging on this deal. I'd exercise caution in dealing with him in the future!

[peterose4hof]

I saw that auction after it was over and thought it sold for much lower than expected. If it's not seller's remorse then at the least it is certainly bad form to sell a card that one does not actually have in hand.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I feel for ya Pete......some of these card deals are like going to a bad dentist.

[christopher.herman]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

... it is certainly bad form to sell a card that one does not actually have in hand.

Especially in an auction format whereby you are making a COMMITMENT to sell an item. Best case scenario is this was poor planning/ crossed fingers on the seller's part. Worst case scenario is not "seller's remorse" but outright reneging on a commitment.

Happy Frick-in New Year Pete! ... Sorry, man.

[ullmandds]

I have a feeling the Karma police are taking note!

[pgellis]

It's funny, that exact card sold on eBay on Dec. 17. It was a single listing, not part of a "lot".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Kahns-P...p2047675.l2557

Assuming that he was the winner on eBay, he's still making a few bucks.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by pgellis

It's funny, that exact card sold on eBay on Dec. 17. It was a single listing, not part of a "lot".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Kahns-P...p2047675.l2557

Assuming that he was the winner on eBay, he's still making a few bucks.

Why do people lie on Net54? This place is full of detectives....They always get caught.

[gregr2]

The buyer left positive feedback on January 1st.

[VistaViper]

You beat me to it.

[Cobra Kai]

Nice looking Rose. Hope it works out.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by VistaViper

You beat me to it.

[daves_resale_shop]

That's horse poop!

It's the risk you take when you put an item up for auction...

[vintagetoppsguy]

If he didn't have possession of the card yet, why would he only do a one day auction? Sounds like a lie to me.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If he didn't have possession of the card yet, why would he only do a one day auction? Sounds like a lie to me.

+1! Seems like sellers remorse.

[chaddurbin]

that oughtta teach you to buy an autograph card petey...

[KCRfan1]

That's too bad. Sorry it did not work out for you.

[ullmandds]

right Quan...what was I thinking?

[ullmandds]

To complete the story...here is my response to Shawn after he cavalierly wrote off the card that he supposedly never received:

personally, I think this whole thing stinks. so what I'm hearing is that you sold a card at auction that you didn't even have....that you supposedly won at auction with a group of things...but somehow this one card never arrived and now you're just cavalierly writing it off as a loss.

i think you weren't happy with the sale price...and are now renegging on your deal.


pete ullman

and his response to me:

Thanks for your opinion and it does stink
Yeah that seems to be the case that I'm dealing with from the person I won the auction. I had a pic of the card and wanted to flip it to fund another card that was being auctioned off, that's why I did a 1 day auction with an affordable starting price, or else I would have done a longer auction.

Hey at least you didnt send $ and would have to deal with a refund, no sweat off your back

Yeah, no sweat off my back...I just don't get a card that I won fairly at auction, that I wanted...and you(the crook) gets off scott free, as usual. Gotta love the hobby!

[ullmandds]

David...wherever did u find that pic of me doing charitable dentistry in Pakistan?!?!

Nice detective work, Phil...this whole thing definitely stinks of deception and lies!

Agreed Dan...crooks can be so stupid...this place is full of eyes and ears!

[Leon]

As moderator I don't like the way this deal went down. That being said Shawn has been a good member and added value to the board. For now he is not allowed back on the Live Auction forum......

If members don't want to sell for a low price in that area then they need to start their auction off at the minimum they will accept or set a transparent reserve. Members should NEVER auction something they don't have in their possession. I am in the camp of finding the story very hard to believe......

[smrtn240]

I shouldn't have auctioned off a card I did not have yet. I messed up. Lesson learned

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by smrtn240

I shouldn't have auctioned off a card I did not have yet. I messed up. Lesson learned

Why did you leave positive feedback for the seller on eBay if you hadn't received the card yet? That doesn't make any sense.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by smrtn240

I shouldn't have auctioned off a card I did not have yet. I messed up. Lesson learned

This is not credible at all...it was on ebay, we've all seen the auction. It did not come from a grouping.

[JohnP0621]

What also does not make sense is that the card was not sold in a lot????
Something smells very stinky.

[JasonD08]

If you would just sell Pete the card for $70 as agreed and make your $22 profit I would assume you would save face here and everyone would move on. I would recommend just selling the card. You are money ahead to keep good faith here and do the right thing. Everyone knows you have the card and it is seller's remorse. Next time put a minimum.

Jason

[grainsley]

If there IS a next time, I suspect he won't be getting much business on this Board.

[ullmandds]

To sell me the card at this time would mean shawn Would have to admit that he's a liar... And I am guessing that he has taken this one too far and that will never happen.

[Ease]

Kinda ironic, lying and Pete Rose go together like peanut butter & jelly.

[campyfan39]

This made me laugh. Thanks

Originally Posted by Ease

Kinda ironic, lying and Pete Rose go together like peanut butter & jelly.

[Wildfireschulte]

[QUOTE=Leon;1226337]As moderator I don't like the way this deal went down. That being said Shawn has been a good member and added value to the board. For now he is not allowed back on the Live Auction forum......


Golly - it sure doesn't take much to get banned from BST auction around here. I sure hope that the Wagner tobacco card arrives before my auction ends Sunday.

Shameless plug alert.

[EvilKing00]

To take it a bit further, the card was bought Dec 17, in a 1 card auction on ebay from a guy with 77 feedback who then left positive feedback on Jan 1st. If you then search ebay for a seller (smrt240) who is the seller on the BST, his feedback is 77.

Explain that.......Just Not cool at all.

[npa589]

...

[batsballsbases]

Seems the last post in the win on that card says it best from TAXMAN
"If you get it.... I am intrested in purchasing " Seems to me he knew something others didnt know.
Shawn the only thing I can tell you is reputation is everything. All my life I have gone out of my way to try and do the right thing even if it meant taking a loss my friend. In your case the "lesson learned" is greed. You sold yourself for a few extra dollars and now everyone around here will probably never deal with you again. Now thats a real "lesson learned" Next time you look at that 50 or 100 dollar bill that you made remind yourself of this incident and ask yourself the question. WAS IT WORTH IT. Pete sorry for your loss.

[ullmandds]

Shawn has contacted me and is attempting to make this right.

[pclpads]

Seller's business model reminds me of Ralph Kramden and all his "get rich quick" schemes. For possibly forever losing one's cred and rep on this board, how could you value that at only $22?

[baztacula]

Will this deal finally get sorted out to everyone's satisfaction? Will Shawn rise from the ashes? I have to take a shower, get a haircut and run some other errands. When I get home, I may have my answer.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Shawn has contacted me and is attempting to make this right.

That's good news.

[itjclarke]

Don't want to hijack Pete's thread, but I have a question related to board selling that's probably not worthy of it's own thread, but thought I'd ask since we're on that topic. I prefer to keep the sale/seller anonymous, especially since I'd prefer a consensus as to whether what happened was wrong or not.

My main question is- does the 1st offer on BST (via email/PM) win?? I know this isn't eBay and there's no BIN tab to formalize this transaction.. but I always felt there was a bit of a code here... first full offer gets it... if the offer is serious (like in my instance), or similar to a situation where a buyer is showing interest in individual items before a seller actually opts to break a grouping and price individually, I'd think this would at least informally put the buyer in queue if and when the seller does offer individually. Or conversely, is it generally accepted that a seller can ignore some offers, respond to others days later and more or less sell, or not sell based whatever other factors he may be considering. Basically, how firm or loose do members consider BST "rules" and buying etiquette?

If you care to see the details I've written a description/chronology below-

Day 1- member posts 3 cards for sale on BST (no scans). He offers package pricing on cards A and B, and a package for A, B and C... but does not offer individual pricing or package price for AC or BC combo. I send a PM, asking for scans and after seeing them immediately respond to see if he'd consider an offer for A and C. Using his AB and ABC package prices, my offer is what I calculated as being equivalent to his full asking price. I get no response (me- no problems.. they aren't marked as "sold" so I'll follow up in a few days).

Days 3-10- I send 2-3 follow up emails, indicating continued interest, and also expressing willingness to purchase either cards A or C individually in the event one had sold.. I just needed his asking price. I'm also pretty sure I said I'd consider buying all 3 if he was insistent on packaging them all. I got no response to any of my messages (me- no problems.. he's probably busy).

Day 11- I send one last email, asking if my prior offers had been received and if the cards were still available. He finally responds and says he did not respond to any of my earlier messages because card A sold early on. (no problem I guess??) I tell him that's OK and that as my earlier messages would indicate I was still interested in card C by itself. He responds saying he just posted individual pricing for B and C on BST. I check the board and seeing the price immediately offer to buy C at full price, sending my offer by email, and for good measure posting to the board.

His response is basically- "sorry, someone PM'd me before you and is buying B and C". (me- now I have issue... I guess 10 days of interest got me a spot at the back of the line). By this point, several others had posted to the board wanting to buy it.. to which he responded, sorry "you're all late". That's what annoyed me.. I'd been making offers for 10 days starting on day 1! I sent a few snide emails (generally NOT my style) and asked the seller if he'd be willing to tell me actual time this other "PM" came in, etc.. all in all, it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but this exchange probably bugged me more than any buy/sell exchange since joining N54.

Was I justified in being annoyed? or in your opinion does a BST seller have prerogative to sell whenever and to whomever he feels, regardless of who makes first offer?

[thehoodedcoder]

Seems like more tha enough for a new thead.

Kevin

[Big Six]

Hey I@n. Probably not against rules of the b/s/t, but pretty lazy on seller's part. Sucks when you find yourself basically throwing good money at someone - full asking price in this case - and it still isn't good enough...Matt


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Shawn has contacted me and is attempting to make this right.

Good to hear, Pete...hope this works out in the end. Just sucks it had to come to this. Leon said he was a good guy, but it sounds like he just made a poor decision and will pay for it through his reputation for a while

Ian- when it comes to the BST, I think there is a code, but in reality, does anyone really have to abide strictly to it? I mean, there are several people that follow the same guidelines, but they do a few things different as far as first respondents and such. In your case, the seller did horrible by not at least contacting you when he first saw your email and giving you an update. When I list things on the BST, I feel like I have an obligation to each and every customer...this is not a game, but rather a type of temporary business you are running and we know how important customers are to businesses. Let's be honest here...there are more than a couple of people on here that don't sell much or haven't been in that position before and don't know the ethics of it...this is where your guy failed pretty miserably. I have been in a few transactions like that before and it blows pretty hard...nothing worse on here than being messed around with.

In the end, you have every right to be aggravated with this guy.

[bobbyw8469]

The one thing that confuses me is that the seller/reneger won the card on Ebay for only $45 dollars or so. He STILL made a profit on the card, and with the card now having two sales under the $100 mark, maybe that is the actual going rate for the card?? Everybody gets so hung up on VCP and past sales (me included sometimes). Maybe we should all step back and take a breather. In my opinion, the seller is a POS and should have shipped the card. He obviously thinks his card is worth more than it actually is. He states book value is $500, although I would never pay nowhere close to that for a Pete Rose autograph. He has signed SOOOOOO much stuff, he is right up there with Bob Feller for never turning down an autograph request! Ban him from selling on here. I don't know what he was thinking, first of all, selling the card ON HERE via auction (no offense Leon), and running it for only ONE DAY!!!! GET THE EYEBALLS ON THE AUCTION!!! How many people do you think acutally saw this auction?? 10-20? If you want to find out the true value, and you think it is undervalued, put it on Ebay for 99 cents and run a 10 day auction with the item ending on Sunday. Use all the important keywords to get the eyeballs on it. That is all I have to say on this.

[smrtn240]

hey bobby boy, maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself before you start labeling others. You wanted confrentation, you got it. I don't need to justify myself to the entire board on what happened on this deal, and I still don't. Pete is getting this card for what I paid for it. No profit needed. Keep your opinions to yourself and guys please stop blowing things out of proportion when it's not necessary

[ElCabron]

Not really making a strong case that you're deserving of the "good guy" title Leon generously bestowed upon you with posts like that, Shawn. If you're trying to make it worse, well done.

-Ryan

[HRBAKER]

Just curious, is what you paid for it more than he "won" it for at auction?

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by smrtn240

hey bobby boy, maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself before you start labeling others. You wanted confrentation, you got it. I don't need to justify myself to the entire board on what happened on this deal, and I still don't. Pete is getting this card for what I paid for it. No profit needed. Keep your opinions to yourself and guys please stop blowing things out of proportion when it's not necessary

I would think you should be stepping back and calming down. People should be judged by how they react AND resolve situations, not one or the other.

A member of this board once told me, "it is better to be thought a fool than to be proven one."

Admit what you did, apologize, move on, and watch as this thread dies...

[earlywynnfan]

What about the lie that he got this in a group lot? Are we just ignoring that?

Ken

[npa589]

Originally Posted by NoizeBringer

Not really making a strong case that you're deserving of the "good guy" title Leon generously bestowed upon you with posts like that, Shawn. If you're trying to make it worse, well done.

-Ryan

We need an "Applause" emoticon on here.

+1

[smrtn240]

Point taken. Just getting frustrated as to where this thread has gone. Pete is in fact getting the card for less than what he had bid on it... not that it matters.
Just didn't think it would have been publicized like this.
And I still don't agree that it should succumb to name-calling