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  #1  
Old 07-26-2005, 12:36 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Don't know how many of you say the retarded poll on ESPN about the greatest athlete of all-time. It is in the sports nation section. You have to vote for a minimum of 10 people, I think. I couldn't find 10 worthy of voting. The main reason for this is that they left off some of the greatest atheletes ever. The only people on list I found worthy of votes were Jim Thorpe, Wilt Chamberlain, Jackie Robinson and Jackie Joyner-Kerse. Everyone else was a one sport wonder, but didn't accel at more than one sport. Notably absent were Babe Diedrickson, Bob Mathiason, Bo Jackson, Dieon Sanders and Duke Kahanamoku.

I have no clue how you can include Anika Sorenstam on their list not Diedrickson. Just goes to prove just how really stupid and uneducated the hacks at ESPN are. I'd expect more from an organization that is supposed to focus on sports.

Next thing you know they are put poker players on the greatest athlete list because they are good at hearts and 52 pick up

Jay

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  #2  
Old 07-26-2005, 12:53 PM
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Posted By: Mark

Here's a Collectors Universe article ranking the Top 100 athletes of the 20th Century:

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article1743.chtml

Interestingly, the author's introduction criticizes an older ESPN ranking of the Top 50 athletes in which three of the named athletes were not human.

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  #3  
Old 07-26-2005, 12:55 PM
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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

Bo Jackson & Jim Thorpe are alone atop my list.

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  #4  
Old 07-26-2005, 12:57 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

These ESPN polls really are a form of entertainment-- a way to waste some time on a web page.

I read a comic strip on the comics page and thought, "That is stupid." It then dawned on me that likely not all the comic strips in the newspapers were intended for someone in his 30s. Some comic strips were made to entertain five and six years old. And there's nothing wrong that. Once a person realizes that certain things in this world, like Britany Spears, Lindsey Lohan, ESPN Poll picks and 30 percent of cable news (for example when cable news reports on Britany Spears, Lindsey Lohan and ESPN Poll picks), were intended to intellectualy stimulate the minds of 10 and 11 year olds, things make more sense.

Probably not the best athlete of all time, I like Gertrude Ederle who in 1926 and at the age of 19 was the first woman to swim the English Channel-- breaking them men's record by almost 2 hours! Due to prevailing currents she had to swim a significantly longer route than normal. Before she swam, many newspapers didn't think a woman had the natural abilities to perform such athletic feats.

When I ran track, I had two coaches tell me me that the top pole vaulter was the best athlete in track and field.

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:59 PM
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Posted By: DJ

First off, why is everyone picking on poker of late on the VBC? How about Bass anglers or professional bowling?

Lists like this are subjective and it's intent is to get us talking about the list and I think they purposely emit people to "get our juices going". Wasn't there a "Greatest Americans" list and wasn't hack doctor Phil McGraw on that list?

For my money, I think "Greatest Athlete" should be a person who excels in two sports and Jay is correct in what he writes. How can you not include Babe Diedrickson?

I rode my bike to the store yesterday and found myself half passed out. Based on that, Lance Armstrong should be at the top of the list to be honest with you. Riding a bike after cancer and dominating the sport as he has should out shadow athletes that change balls around a field.

In a year or so, ESPN will have another stupid list and we'll talk about that as well. (yawn).

DJ

edited:

Ok, I saw the PSA list and I would like to know which "knobs" assisted in that train wreck. Ali was great and did a lot for the sport but was more of a marketer and loud mouth than a fighter. Those last three fights may have tarnished his legacy in my mind. Why not Rocky Marciano then? How can you include Ernie Davis on a list? I think when SGC comes out with a list, I'll probably have more respect for their opinions.

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  #6  
Old 07-26-2005, 01:00 PM
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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

on what your definition includes...........
JUST what they did in their sport or what they did in their lifetimes, how they used their fame, who knows. 1000's of different ways to parse the data and the people. For someone just in their sport (multiple sports), I'd go with Didrickson or Jim Thorpe. For just in their sport(single sport), I'd go with Jordan. For all time (life inclusive) I'd have to go with Ali. In my viewpoint, what he's done since his sport days is far more important than the sporting days themselves.

Also don't forget that someone who chose to concentrate on a single sport may have been hugely successful in another had they chosen to go that route.

As Dennis Miller used to say, just my opionion.....I could be wrong........

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  #7  
Old 07-26-2005, 01:22 PM
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Posted By: Howard W. Rosenberg

I'll bet few participants in the ESPN push poll were aware that in 1893, Al Spalding said this about Cap Anson (let alone know who either of them is):

"Anson is the most remarkable athlete that America has ever produced. I played ball with him in 1866, and he was playing before that time. He is now over 41 years of age, and still ranks among the greatest players of the country."





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  #8  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:01 PM
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Posted By: DJ

What would Al Spalding say about:

Barry Bonds: "This guy gets 200 at bats a year and manages to hit home runs in half of them?" (the home run leader in 1893 had like seven, not counting the Ned Williamson year and that scam).

Lance Armstrong: "This guy has ridden his bike ten's of thousand's of miles for sport? I think we have our new mail carrier! Remarkable!"

Wilt Chamberlain: "He scored 100 points in an indoor basketball game? Was anyone guarding him?"

Roy Halladay: "Hold on, most of the pitcher's today don't even get 20 wins? They don't even pitch 80 complete games?"

Love you Al, but that was the 1800's.

DJ



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  #9  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:27 PM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

either was ESPN or anyone else living today, which is why a lot of the great athletes of prior generations are omitted from modern lists. I was reading some posts on another forum about the greatest black baseball players at each position - few of the posters were even alive at the time that these players played, but they were editing their posts, changing their minds, etc., about their lists. In actuality, only the people who saw these athletes perform really know how good they were, and then, only in comparison to others they have seen or based on what other eye-witnesses have said - the best we can do is read the accounts written about these players and make our decisions based on that. Stats alone aren't going to do it.

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  #10  
Old 07-26-2005, 02:38 PM
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Posted By: Glenn

I'm not really qualified to comment on the greatest athletes of all-time, but I think Lygdamus, the pankration champion at the original Olympic games would have to be up there. In the past 100 years I'd say Thorpe was the best male athlete and Didrickson the best female athlete. After that it's tough, but in my lifetime I'd go with Bo Jackson, Lance Armstrong, Jackie Joyner-Kersey; maybe Dan O'Brien, Michael Vick, Magnus ver Magnusson, whoever holds the record in the Badlands ultra-marathon, and possibly this young man from the village of Petite Soufriere on the island of Dominica (that's me at the top of the photo):

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  #11  
Old 07-26-2005, 03:00 PM
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Posted By: leon

All around athlete- Jim Thorpe

Best Athlete at one sport (who dominated): Babe Ruth- He WAS baseball and Baseball is our American pastime....

just my 2 cents.....

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  #12  
Old 07-26-2005, 03:16 PM
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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

My opinion, with all due respect to Leon's opinion. Cobb WAS/IS baseball. also, in speaking of greatest athletes' what about Jesse Owens?

Best regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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  #13  
Old 07-26-2005, 03:25 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Adam, the problem with your choice of Cobb is that even though in basebal circles everyone knows him, outside of it, Ruth has much more name recognition Cobb. To America in general, Ruth is baseball.

I didn't vote for Jessie Owens because he, like Carl Lewis was sprinter. There is nothing special about a sprinter excelling at the long jump. Most great sprinters are outstanding long jumpers and vice versa. It's all a matter of what they want to concentrate on.


Jay


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  #14  
Old 07-26-2005, 03:57 PM
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Posted By: David Vargha

Thorpe, Bo Jackson and Dave Winfield. Wasn't Winfield drafted by something like 4 professional leagues?

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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  #15  
Old 07-26-2005, 04:24 PM
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Posted By: dennis

bo jackson & jim brown

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  #16  
Old 07-26-2005, 04:33 PM
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Posted By: Jerry

I agree with Leon about Babe Ruth. NO ONE is even close to him in terms of what he accomplished as both a hitter and a pitcher, in combination.

I might now have to give the greatest athlete of all time to Lance Armstrong. His feat is not only unprecedented, but astonishing.

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  #17  
Old 07-26-2005, 04:38 PM
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Posted By: DJ

Yeah, I was going to say Lygdamus as well! (what?)

You can't put a sprinter on the list. Sorry Jesse. Sorry Carl. Running fast for a hundred meters doesn't make you an athlete in my opinion. Might as well put Johnny Chan or Marshall Holman on that list then.

I do agree that some of the greatest athletes were some of the Negro League Baseball players like Josh Gibson but isn't it difficult to compare that era to today and especially the 1800's?

Sure Cap Anson was great but would he be Mark Lemke today? How would Barry Bonds fare in 1888? How would Cy Young fare today against these bigger, stronger athletes?

The thing is you never know and WILL never know therefore a debate will always continue. None of us on the Board has ever seen any of these legends in person but what we know is what others tell us and what the stats say.

I think we are much stronger and faster today than we were back then. We trumped Roger Bannister many times over.

Who knows.

DJ

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  #18  
Old 07-26-2005, 04:49 PM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I was at many of the Olympic events in 1996 and Carl Lewis did a bit more than 100 meter sprints. Comparing his athleticism to a bowler is quite funny. In fact, comparing him to a pure baseball player might be almost as funny. But this is a baseball forum, so I understand.

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Old 07-26-2005, 04:56 PM
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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

I would have to go with Bo Jackson and Lance Armstrong. Just my thoughts

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  #20  
Old 07-26-2005, 05:07 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

Amongst cyclists, the 1960s-70s Belgian Eddy Merckx is generally considered to be the greatest.

As an example of his talent, in the Tour de France there are three main jerseys. Yellow (overall winner), pink (best mountain climber) and green (best sprinter). As one would expect, good mountain climbers are almost never good sprinters and visa versa. In one Tour de France, Merckx won all three jerseys.

As far as picking the best athlete, my opinion is that one should pick a best from an area that both requires great athletic skill and attracts lots of talent. Being the top in your sport means little, if there are only three participants. Some areas where I would look are football running backs (Walter Payton and Barry Sanders would be two great picks), basketball players (Michael Jordan), old time boxers (Sugar Ray Robinson or Ali as example), Soccer (Pele), all around baseball players (Willie Mays), track sprints (A good argument is that Carl Lewis is the greatest athlete of all time) and gymnastics (who says 4'11" Olga Korbut can't be called the greatest athlete?)

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  #21  
Old 07-26-2005, 05:39 PM
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Posted By: Steve Dawson

I also thought of Winfield. You are correct about his being drafted by four different teams in four different leagues:

NFL - Minnesota Vikings
NBA - Atlanta Hawks
ABA - Utah Stars
MLB - San Diego Padres

He was a standout pitcher for the University of Minnesota.


Steve

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  #22  
Old 07-26-2005, 05:48 PM
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Posted By: DJ

Glad I added humor to you Scott but I can't put Carl Lewis on my list.

Okay, comparing Carl Lewis to a bowler was more for amusment (was going to go the route of the Hot Dog eating guy who has dominated his sport) but his accomplishments were in competitions where he was the best at his sport at his time, but it wasn't a feat sustained over a season or a long period of time.

He performed about as much as a Heavyweight these days. His spot light came in the Olympics and if you added up all the time he spent in the spotlight in competition, he may have been on display for ten minutes. I give sprinters credit, but not that much credit, especially when he defeats another sprinter in the 200 meters in a matter of several seconds. Also I give credit for multiple achievments. Jumping, skipping, running doesn't do it for me over such a small period of time. Why aren't marathon runners on any lists then? If Carl Lewis is an athlete, then what about those who train and sustain?

Now if Carl played a little Centerfield somewhere or played in the NFL, he would get further credit but I think you are giving him a tad too much credit. Basically he goes fast straight or jumps long. I believe many sprinters like Neimiah and Edwin Moses tried to excel in other sports and simply failed.

Jay backs me up on this and I agree.

Yes this is Baseball Forum and I think I said I would probably to go with Lance Armstrong or Jim Thorpe. I would also add Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Willie Mays, Pele, Rocky Marciano, Jack Johnson, Babe Diedrikson, Annika Sorenstam, Bo Jackson.

DJ
edited to say: How about Secreteriat? How about Tony Hawk?

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  #23  
Old 07-26-2005, 06:14 PM
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Posted By: eric p.

bo jackson, jim thorpe and mildred "babe" didrikson!

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  #24  
Old 07-26-2005, 06:27 PM
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Posted By: GTS

bo jackson michael jordan walter payton


i`m a newbie...awesome site!

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  #25  
Old 07-26-2005, 08:14 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Since I played basketball against him in high school, I will say 3-sport All-America at Buffalo State(basketball,soccer and high jump)Randy Smith who went on to have a good pro basketball career.

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  #26  
Old 07-26-2005, 08:42 PM
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Posted By: scott brockelman

Prabably the greatest athlete of all time based on athletic achievements would be Jim Thorpe. he was deemed the athlete of the 1st half century of the 1900's.

BUT, if you were to name the greatest "athlete of the people", a person who transcended sports and garnered more headlines and drew more attention AND is still "THE MOST RECOGNIZED PERSON ON THE PLANET ACCORDING TO MANY STUDIES" there is no greater athlete than MUHAMMAD ALI!

he is the only awe inspiring athlete left alive, while at a tristar show years ago, i had the fortune to be near him when he first came out, everyone stopped what they were doing and gave him a standing ovation. 1st ones to their feet were Joe Namath and Henry Aaron, both signing autographs. when was the last time you saw any modern day athlete at a signing acknowledge anything? the fact that most athletes from all sports respect this man so much, points to his greatness as an athlete and an ambassador of sports. a great athlete is one respected by his peers.

scott

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  #27  
Old 07-26-2005, 08:44 PM
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Posted By: Scott Elkins

afterall, Cobb could do about anything he wanted! Saw Rocky Marciano's name a few posts above - DEFINITELY the greatest boxer ever. I would love for everybody who says Joe Louis was to watch the fight where Marciano knocked Louis through the ring ropes several rows in the stands!

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  #28  
Old 07-26-2005, 09:17 PM
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Posted By: DJ

Rocky was number one!

Ali was a product of his own making. He was contreversial, witty, charming, a news reporter's dream and a fine fighter. His legacy in my mind has been tarnished on those last few fights. Who can forget the pummeling Holmes put on him. Every boxer had his own style in how he dealt with people. Ali knew how to win not only the bouts, but was a marketing genius where other fine fighters of that time like Liston, Patterson, Holmes, Foreman, Frazier didn't know what charisma was. Especially Foreman who was an underrated fighter and wasn't pleasant then and is a fine "actor" today.

As much as I love Rocky and Jack, Ali will always be my favorite though because when I saw Ali at the Edison, NJ show four years ago (his last public signing), I saw people who didn't really care about the $450 autograph, they just wanted to shake his hand and tell him how great he was. This one guy traveled from Germany just to get an 8x10 signed and meet him realizing that this may be the last chance.

Ali made every person at the event feel like a close friend with the same wit and was happy to mock punch the fan before the photograph was taken. That's why he's the Greatest, and number three on my list of Greatest Heavyweights Of All-Time though.

DJ

P.S Vintage Boxing Forum!

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  #29  
Old 07-26-2005, 09:34 PM
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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I love to hear my father's stories about seeing Marciano fight (My father boxed from the time he was a kid until his Korean War days and beyond - also taught me how to box)! Definitely the greatest ever. I hate to say it, but it seems that reverse discrimination has held Marciano back from the glory he deserves (afterall, he still is the only Heavyweight to ever go undefeated - nobody can argue with that).

I only wish I could find all the boxers autographs my father had gotten for me at the fights (Ali, Foreman (Dad really liked George - super nice guy), etc.).

SSSSSSH - don't tell Leon we were talking about vintage boxing!

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Old 07-26-2005, 09:42 PM
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I love off topic posts. Greatest pure athlete: Jim Brown and Bo Jackson. Bert Sugar in his book ranked Brown first as I recall. Greatest endurance athlete: Lance Armstrong and Lasse Viren. To win the 5K and 10K in successive Olympics (I think I have my facts right), and then to go on to finish 5th in the marathon two days later in 1976 -- there are no words.

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  #31  
Old 07-27-2005, 02:35 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

geez, how could I forget local homeboy, Winfield. Definately belongs on the short list.

Jay

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  #32  
Old 07-27-2005, 04:48 AM
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Posted By: DavidMcDonald

Any of you geniuses ever heard of Lionel Conacher?

The Big Train played all the tough sports and he was damn near awesome at all of them. He scored three touchdowns in the 1921 Grey Cup game. He played outfield for the Toronto Maple Leafs when they won the Little World Series in 1926 and received major league contract offers. He was Canadian light-heavyweight boxing champ in 1920 and went three rounds in an exhibition against Jack Dempsey in 1923. He was acknowledged as the best lacrosse player in the game at the time and wrestled strong men when wrestling was not the televised comedy hour it has become. And in hockey, which was his third-best sport because he didn't learn to skate until he was 16, he was an NHL-all-star defenceman three times and played on two Stanley Cup winners (Chicago and Montreal). Some called Jim Thorpe "the Lionel Conacher of America."

He was named Canada's Athlete of the Half-Century in 1950. He was a charter member of the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame in 1955, the Canadian Football Hall of Fame in 1963 and the Canadian Lacrosse Hall of Fame in 1966. In 1994 he was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net:8080/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsMember.jsp?mem=p199401&type=Player&page=bio&list=

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Old 07-27-2005, 06:56 AM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

I agree that Marciano is underrated, but...Marciano is underrated for a very good reason, which is that he retired before his time because of financial irregularities with his management team (a pack of thieves, they stole so much that he quit rather than give them more money). Marciano also was a rather unpleasant person, a cheapskate and moocher. There was no one on the horizon to beat him for at least another 3-4 years, so he could readily have defended his title another 4-6 times, which would have put him way up there in my view. Notably absent from the discussion is Joe Louis, who defended the title a record 25 times. How about Gene Tunney, who had only 1 defeat early in his career as a light-heavyweight and retired with the title? He is way underrated.

But back to topic, I think Thorpe has to be the greatest overall athletic presence. The man played MLB, pro football, and was an Olympic champion. No one has come close.

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Old 07-27-2005, 09:34 AM
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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

Bo Who?..... Bo Jackson? His football career flopped, he became "cool" during the hobby boom of the 1980's, with his "Bo knows" slogan. Then his baseball career flopped. Whatever happend to him?(retirement home, somewhere) Can't you get his 1987 Topps rookie card for like 25 cents or LESS?

Best Regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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  #35  
Old 07-27-2005, 11:03 AM
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Posted By: Max Weder

David

Thanks for posting on Lionel. You didn't list your email, but if you send me a note, I'll send you an image of a panorama of the 1926 Leafs where Lionel and a pitcher named Carl Hubbell are shown.

Do you know if there are any cards of Lionel from his baseball career?

Max

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  #36  
Old 07-27-2005, 11:26 AM
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Posted By: Bryan

Over half the people on the board mention Bo as one of the greatest athletes and you spout off Bo who. Seriously get a clue. Do some research. Bo was a three sport star at Auburn; football (won the heisman trophy), baseball, and track. He would have been drafted number one by the Tampa Bay Bucs but was annoyed at them when they caused him to lose his eligability to play his senior year of baseball. He decided to play pro baseball after that.

Bo was the fastest person on the baseball field and could hit the ball with more power than any non-steriod player could. He did have a tendency to strike out often though. If he focused on baseball he would have been a premier hitter.

He has the best yards per carry average of any player of his time while playing football and his speed was unmatched. His football career became a "flop" because his hip was destroyed in a tackle. Yet that didn't stop him from returning to baseball.

Guess you miss that sort of stuff while growing up in a cornfield in Iowa.

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Old 07-27-2005, 11:35 AM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Generally there are bean fields near the corn fields, and also cows nearby. For fruit he could eat wild blackberries.

Also, you will have a very difficult time finding an uneducated person in the state of Iowa - they pride themselves in their education and ability to speak good English. Not true of most parts of the U.S. Having travelled the U.S. extensively I can assure you this is a fact.

As far as Bo goes, I wouldn't use college achievements as a measure of greatness - if so, we will have to include Pete Incaviglia in our list, perhaps even Jerry Rhome. For multi-sport athletes I would take Dave Winfield or Neon Deion over Bo any day.

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Old 07-27-2005, 11:57 AM
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Posted By: Bryan

Come on, that guy was a self-promoter. If it wasn't for his mouth you would have never known he was on the field in the first place. And let's face it, cornerback isn't exactly the hardest position.

Dave Winfield excelled at three sports in college, drafted by four teams and played one professionally. How is this better than Bo playing three sports in college, being drafted by two teams and playing for two. If you want to go down the route of being drafted in other sports don't forget John Elway was drafted by the Yankees.

I will still take Bo Jackson. He was drafted by the Yankees out of high school. Won the Heisman trophy as the best college football player and was going to be selected number one in the draft. Played two sports professionally. And is still the only player to appear in two professional all star games. He was a human highlight reel.

Nothing against Dave Winfield though. One of my favorite players.

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Old 07-27-2005, 12:03 PM
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Posted By: Scott Elkins

In a post above - the fight where Marciano knocked Louis out of the ring through the ring ropes! Watching that fight from the old films certainly showed who the better boxer was between Marciano and Louis. Plus, Louis was given a few decisions b/c of his popularity (not my word, the word of someone who actually saw the fights).

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Old 07-27-2005, 12:08 PM
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

There is a reason they made those commercials. It was because Bo Jackson was, in fact, prior to his devastating injury, a truly remarkable athlete. Remember Buck O'Neal's hypnotic story in Ken Burns' baseball about hearing "that sound" (the magical sound of a bat striking a ball in a particularly compelling way) only three times in his life? Babe Ruth and Josh Gibson were two of the men who made "that sound." The third? Bo Jackson. Does anyone recall hearing Tony Kubek comment that Jackson because of his speed might well cause a reexamination of much of the "received wisdom" about baserunning? Can you imagine being a catcher and having Bo Jackson bearing down on you? Has anyone ever seen a running back who could get to the outside and turn the corner faster than Bo Jackson or anyone who, once he did, had as much pure open field speed? Who else has EVER played both baseball and football at such a high level. Thorpe was a minor league baseball player (so was Michael Jordan), and Deion Sanders (who does, in fairness, deserve mention) had potential but was not the force Jackson was.

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Old 07-27-2005, 12:29 PM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

My choice of Sanders over Jackson is based on watching each play football and baseball, not their personalities. Sanders could play offense and defense, Jackson was a running back. Jackson certainly had more power as a hitter, but had a lower average and was a crummier fielder. I think if Sanders had put more energy into baseball and less into self-promotion (as previous poster noted), he could have been a much better player. But neither of these guys would make my top five "greatest athletes" list.

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Old 07-27-2005, 12:38 PM
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Saying "Jackson was a running back" in a discussion of great athletes is like saying "Eisenhower was a general" in a discussion of great military figures. EDITED TO ADD: Somehow deleted my prior comment that Louis was way past his prime when he lost to Marciano, judging the two men by that fight is no more valid than saying Holmes beat Ali so must have been better.

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Old 07-27-2005, 12:47 PM
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Posted By: Richard

or even whether or not Bo belongs in the top atheletes list, but I do want to recount one simply ubelievable thing I saw Bo do on a highlight film:

This was during a Royals day game and the camera perspective was from behind the umpire somewhere when Bo was up at the plate. I don't know what the count was, or who was pitching, but Bo put up his arm and waived for time. He stepped, both feet, out of the batter's box and I believe he was doing something like adjusting his glove's velcro straps. He then realized that the pitcher was in full windup and about to make his delivery to the plate, and that the umpire did not call time. The pitcher must have been almost at his release point when Bo jumped back into the batter box, took his swing and cracked the ball out for a home run.

Simply the most amazing baseball highlight I have ever seen, aside from Canseco's header for the home run.

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:02 PM
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Posted By: DJ

Rocky ended his career undefeated and beating Ezzard Charles twice, while Louis had three losses under his belt including Charles and 'The Rock' of course. Louis should have had four but Billy Conn had to get a little too cute in my favorite fight. Louis was great but I would put a couple fighters ahead of him and he did in fact get some fights his way for who he was.

The price of a trading cards should not define greatness. A lot of people talk about Dave Winfield which surprises me a little. Sure he was a good High School / College athlete but played only baseball. He could have gone into Basketball and been a total bust.

Bryan, first off, this is a friendly debate with no winner so using the words- Seriously get a clue. Do some research- doesn't show much class in making your point.

Bo was an amazing athlete and deserves to be in at least the top 10 all-time. Think about this- You work hard and play baseball from April to September and the go straight into the punishing NFL world from September to December. There is no break and your body aches throughout.

DJ





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Old 07-27-2005, 01:14 PM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Eisenhower WAS a general.

At least no one's hollering for Dave DeBusschere or Gene Conley.

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:14 PM
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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Including a mix of categories. Bo Jackson (all around), Jim Thorpe (all around), Lance Armstrong (endurance athlete), Babe Ruth (baseball), Willie Mays (baseball -- deserves at least two places), Jim Brown (football, Michael Jordan (basketball), Jackie Joyner-Kersee (female; track and field), Carl Lewis (track and field), Pele (soccer -- world's most popular sport).

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:28 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

Notable minor sport star is Eric Heiden (speed skating). He won and set Olymic records for all of the races in the 1980 Olympics. Not just all of the races he entered, but all of the races. In the sport, which particularly popular in Northern Europe and other places where it's really cold, this is considered a feat that may never be duplicated. This is because races are for both sprinters and long distance racers. After the Olympics Heiden switched to cycling, and was the US National Champion and raced in the Tour de France.

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:29 PM
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Posted By: Bryan

Certain comments made in the "looks whose coming to nationals" thread show no class.

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:52 PM
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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

Bryan,

I am hardly ignorant. After all, I still hold the record for longest bashed thread. PLUS, I broke the news to the forum, about the investinginpaper Ebay scam. I wouldn't count Bo Jackson's college sports activities as "great achievements". hell, anyone can play college ball. We just had two Iowa guys drafted. Jeff Clement, now playing at USC. Who will be going pro. (forgot who signed him) Clement holds the U.S. record for most homeruns hit by a high school ball player. Also, Jeremy Hellickson, of Des Moines' Hoover high school was drafted by Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Hellickson currently has a 0.00 E.R.A. These guys are studs, and not bad for being "cornfield Iowa boys". Which state do you hail from? How many guys from YOUR homestate have gone pro?

Best regards,

Adam J. Moraine

edited to mention that Jeff Clement was drafted by the Seattle Mariners, after performing a "goggle" search.

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Old 07-27-2005, 01:56 PM
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Posted By: DJ

Yeah, no one should be told 'to get a clue' based on an opinion on a topic.

This is a friendly debate among VBC members. There is no correct answer here. If you don't think Bo is an athlete, that's fine. Disagree and state your case.

I like Peter's list. I would add Gretzky. Hockey albeit it took a vacation, hockey is a very difficult sport and no one dominated it the way he did.


DJ

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