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  #1  
Old 06-01-2019, 06:55 PM
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Default New allegations on BO

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297351

The title of the thread there is
Brent Huigens & PWCC Used pwcc_auctions ID to Buy Cards for Gary Moser to Trim/Alter
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:12 PM
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No doubt they are engaged in a menage a trois of sorts...imho that is.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
No doubt they are engaged in a menage a trois of sorts...imho that is.
Looks more like a pas de deux to me.
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:18 PM
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My latest email to Steve Sloan (Cc: Betsy):
Quote:
Steve, you should really cut all ties with PWCC: no more advertising, no more submissions, no more radio show call-ins, no more nothing. Go cold turkey.

If they buy back the fraudulent cards sold through their service and eliminate the sales, how much does your grade guarantee really come into play?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297351

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269654

The FBI can't be far behind. Please don't shred any "evidence"; Brent doesn't even know the definition of that word.
Thanks!
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
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Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:25 PM
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Remember the two things that went missing on the internet this week: pre-2015 back scans and obfuscated buyer ids...
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:28 PM
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This doesn't even surprise me at this point. That's sad.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Looks more like a pas de deux to me.
You’re forgetting betsy.
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:41 PM
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Brent just needs to post another "calming" video for his investors on youtube. Problem solved. Where's Martin?
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:49 PM
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1994 SkyBox Bongo Comics Simpsons Series 2 - Characters #S 23 - Martin Prince
Courtesy of COMC.com

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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
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BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:52 PM
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If this is true. RIP any card bought and sold through PWCC. All the cards they ever handled are pretty much deemed suspect from this moment on. Also a big blow for “High End” this backs what collectors have been saying for years. As to the idea that high grade card should not exist.

If true we all know this is not the first time someone has tried this and not the last. I also would that a lot of others scammers are out in the world doing this.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookiemonster View Post
If true we all know this is not the first time someone has tried this and not the last. I also would that a lot of others scammers are out in the world doing this.
Oh, Blowout has already identified 10 other scammers in the last couple of months. Hot and heavy trimming with BGS, mostly: Kevin Burge, SSI (Sliheets). Just spend a few days there in their member feedback section and it's like you've taken the red pill from The Matrix.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:19 PM
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I wonder how many of the outed cards will be showing up for auction again this summer.
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Remember the two things that went missing on the internet this week: pre-2015 back scans and obfuscated buyer ids...


And I'm sure any official investigators would find that tidbit most interesting...you might say the evidence you can't see may be the most damning...
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:29 PM
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It's always the cover up that hurts the most. And who asked that those things disappear? eBay per VCP.
__________________
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.

Last edited by swarmee; 06-01-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:35 PM
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I thought the IDs were back?
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  #16  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:40 PM
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I really don't know much of the details as to what is going on with PWCC, but I read some of the Blowout forum in the link and have an idea.

Does this mean I should suspect trimming or alterations on any PWCC cards I purchased?
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  #17  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
I thought the IDs were back?
They are, but the fact that eBay told Bobby to pull them in the first place was not cool. And it was very likely to have been prodded by PWCC.

I would only worry about the cards bought from PWCC if they're from 1886 to 2019. The rest are probably fine.
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Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #18  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206madman View Post
I really don't know much of the details as to what is going on with PWCC, but I read some of the Blowout forum in the link and have an idea.

Does this mean I should suspect trimming or alterations on any PWCC cards I purchased?
Most definitely. I know I would. Especially any card with a "High End Sticker". Hell, any card worth over, say $1,000 is quite suspect IMHO.

Last edited by bobbyw8469; 06-01-2019 at 09:01 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:00 PM
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How does PSA determine the amount refund on an improperly graded card? Is it based on current market? Amount paid? Other?

Mark
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdmtx View Post
How does PSA determine the amount refund on an improperly graded card? Is it based on current market? Amount paid? Other?
Current market per their Grade Guarantee.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdmtx View Post
How does PSA determine the amount refund on an improperly graded card? Is it based on current market? Amount paid? Other?

Mark
Who knows. This is unprecedented. I'm just blown away at the SHEER (or is it SHEAR..haha) MAGNITUDE at the volume of cards that have been tampered with. I would be totally shocked if the Feds don't come in like they did Mastro.
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:04 PM
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I wonder if Moser has ever asked for a refund on a rare downgraded card.
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  #23  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:12 PM
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And what a Bull market we are in.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:13 PM
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Default yes, and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
They are, but the fact that eBay told Bobby to pull them in the first place was not cool. And it was very likely to have been prodded by PWCC.

I would only worry about the cards bought from PWCC if they're from 1886 to 2019. The rest are probably fine.
You can also narrow it down to sports and non-sports trading cards.
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  #25  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:17 PM
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At least John gave us the 1886-2019 window.

I see where Topps is now taking orders on the 2037 Baseball Card Set featuring Aaron Judge Jr. RCs.
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FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER BUT CLEARLY........

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION


518/1000 Monster Number

Over*760* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-19.
Over 550 sales with satisfied Board members served.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
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  #26  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalupacollects View Post

And I'm sure any official investigators would find that tidbit most interesting...you might say the evidence you can't see may be the most damning...
Yeah. I saw how well that part of it worked with Mastro.
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  #27  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
At least John gave us the 1886-2019 window.

I see where Topps is now taking orders on the 2037 Baseball Card Set featuring Aaron Judge Jr. RCs.
And the last card of Mike Trout, who made a comeback at age 46 to try once more to make the playoffs for the first time in his career.
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  #28  
Old 06-01-2019, 09:28 PM
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If they need some legal advice, these guys have some:

"We're not here to talk about the past."
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #29  
Old 06-01-2019, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd View Post
Brent just needs to post another "calming" video for his investors on youtube. Problem solved. Where's Martin?
PaulMaul is doing a pretty good impression:
https://forums.collectors.com/discus...ned-by-pwcc/p4
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #30  
Old 06-01-2019, 10:17 PM
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Must suck to be censored.
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  #31  
Old 06-01-2019, 10:51 PM
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Apparently, the CGC labeling of comic books includes calling 'conserved' comic as unaltered. This conservation includes pressing and removing of binding and coloring!

This is 100% what baseball card collectors don't want and are against. If a card has been conserved or restored fine, but the baseball card wants and insists the work be designated on the label-- and the card can't get a numerical grade.

Now I know why PWCC, and Goudey, want the baseball card hobby to adopt that labeling system. The CGC labeling system doesn't label what the baseball card hobby consider alterations.

Last edited by drcy; 06-01-2019 at 11:30 PM.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:20 AM
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Sent this to the FDLE tipline this morning

Quote:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1295881

There is a very large scandal going on in the baseball card community with high level scammers taking advantage of the grading companies and scamming people for millions. One of these is Robert Block, who altered cards to make them look better, passed them through the certifying company Beckett Grading Service, and then sold them through Pre-War Card Collector (PWCC) on eBay. Since Block lives in Florida, the authorities here should be contacted.

Here is more information about the scams; the FBI should be brought in as well:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1290614

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1293713

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1296184

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1288383

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297351

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1292005

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1296884

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...light=superior

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...light=superior

My father was the Bureau Chief of the Fort Myers branch of FDLE for 20 years until he died five years ago. I would like to see this investigated and passed to the proper authorities in each district and federal.
Thanks!
John Rafferty
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:50 AM
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I'm totally sickened by all this. In my opinion, there is a big difference between removing wax stains with panythose and trimming cards and adding color. Disgusting.
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:53 AM
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All laid out on a silver platter. If you live in Texas, report the BGS/SSI stuff. If you live in Oregon, report the PWCC stuff, if you live in New York, report PWCC for taking away state sales tax from their Vault promotions.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #35  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
It's always the cover up that hurts the most. And who asked that those things disappear? eBay per VCP.
It wasn’t eBay.
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:01 AM
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Well, Bobby claims to have proof. And phone records showing many long calls with eBay reps to resolve it. So if it was just Brent and not eBay, that's another company that will take it on the chin.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #37  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Sent this to the FDLE tipline this morning
That is great, I seriously appreciate all that is going on to expose the scammers.

IMHO nobody is taking advantage of the grading companies. They are either in on it or they hire blind graders.
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  #38  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:14 AM
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A scandal is occurring that is apparently massive in proportion affecting graded cards at all levels and we're worried about a few hours when some VCP data went dark? WTF.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 07:14 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
A scandal is occurring that is apparently massive in proportion affecting graded cards at all levels and we're worried about a few hours when some VCP data went dark? WTF.
Shows Brent was trying to kill the evidence and stop the BO guys from investigating further. And then covering it up by blaming on eBay. Seems pretty bad to me. Aren’t you an attorney?
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  #40  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
You’re forgetting betsy.
Looking at her profile on Linked In, she's not a stupid woman, and she has to know nearly everything this Auction House is doing. I haven't seen PWCC's financial statements but they claim $50 million in annual sales, so there are 2 things that can occur: 1. Since there appears to be more than enough evidence against PWCC in the form of Shill The only problem
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  #41  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
A scandal is occurring that is apparently massive in proportion affecting graded cards at all levels and we're worried about a few hours when some VCP data went dark? WTF.
I think people are just trying to put all the pieces together. But I could be wrong.
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  #42  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
Shows Brent was trying to kill the evidence and stop the BO guys from investigating further. And then covering it up by blaming on eBay. Seems pretty bad to me. Aren’t you an attorney?
The evidence against Brent is massive. To me the VCP thing is a sideshow, if that.
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  #43  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The evidence against Brent is massive. To me the VCP thing is a sideshow, if that.
When Brent claims he was duped by Moser and had no clue, he and Bobby are going to have to explain why they removed the links to stop the BO guys from investigating. Bobby presumably is not going to continue lying about this for Brent when he eventually is going to have to explain the story to the Feds, so why would Brent be asking him to do this and then concocting the absurd story of eBay doing it on Memorial Day weekend if he wasn’t aware of the crimes being committed?

Last edited by CuriousGeorge; 06-02-2019 at 08:10 AM. Reason: Clarification
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  #44  
Old 06-02-2019, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge View Post
When Brent claims he was duped by Moser and had no clue, he and Bobby are going to have to explain why they removed the links to stop the BO guys from investigating. Bobby presumably is not going to continue lying to the Feds for Brent so why would Brent be asking him to do this and then concocting the absurd story of eBay doing it on Memorial Day weekend if he wasn’t aware of the crimes being committed?
I understand the issue, I am just saying to me in the context of massive direct evidence of fraud it's a sideshow. Particularly with no smoking gun (that I am aware of anyhow). Brent will not claim that, by the way, in my opinion, he's told way too many people he knows exactly what Gary does. Not to mention the paper trail.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 07:59 AM.
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  #45  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:13 AM
iowadoc77 iowadoc77 is offline
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Can you even imagine where Brent has to be mentally in all this? Walls have to feel like they are closing in!

And yet the auction is cranking and bids are flying in as per usual.

House of cards ready to crash.
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  #46  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by iowadoc77 View Post
Can you even imagine where Brent has to be mentally in all this? Walls have to feel like they are closing in!

And yet the auction is cranking and bids are flying in as per usual.

House of cards ready to crash.
Either the world doesn't know yet, or the world doesn't care.
It's ironic that if you scroll down to the bottom of this thread (at least right now) you see his ad. Surreal, in a way.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 06-02-2019 at 08:19 AM.
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  #47  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Either the world doesn't know yet, or the world doesn't care.
It's ironic that if you scroll down to the bottom of this thread (at least right now) you see his ad. Surreal, in a way.
I visualize a "breaking bad" type of scenario with brent/betsy/Moser...pumping out product as fast as they can and burying stacks of cash somewhere to recover after doing their sentences.
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  #48  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Either the world doesn't know yet, or the world doesn't care.
It's ironic that if you scroll down to the bottom of this thread (at least right now) you see his ad. Surreal, in a way.
The world doesn’t know. But they’re going to know very soon.
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  #49  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:22 AM
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The world doesn’t know. But they’re going to know very soon.
I think so, and certainly hope so, in this day and age word will spread.
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  #50  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:25 AM
cubman1941 cubman1941 is offline
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Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
My latest email to Steve Sloan (Cc: Betsy):
Don't disagree but then what about our site which has PWCC ad in banner?
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