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  #1  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:20 PM
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orioles70 orioles70 is offline
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Default Just what is a "complete" T205 set?

I apologize in advance if this subject has been raised before but over many years I have seen and heard several versions of what a "complete" T205 set contains...I am curious to hear other collector opinions on just how many cards they consider are in a "complete" T205 set....what is the number?

Is it simply a card of all of the different players?

Is it a card of all the different fronts since some players have front pic variations?...Collins, Wallace, etc.

How about "minor" front variations?...Crandall

Does it have to contain all the variations including back variations?...Hoblitzell, Moran, etc.

What about an example of all the different tobacco brands?...Hindu, Drum, etc.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts
John

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  #2  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:24 PM
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Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
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I can't speak to the backs at all as I don't track those. But there are 208 different cards considered to be the 'basic' set. That includes the two team changes for Graham and Shean, who each have Cubs and Rustlers cards.

Beyond that is where the fun begins. PSA considers 221 needed for a master set, so they've added 13 to get there, which are the more well-known errors, including the Hoblitzells, Matty one loss, etc.

Beyond that are even more. I have ten different ones cataloged on my site and there are surely more than that. Some have only been brought to light in the last few years and my guess is that many more exist. Here are the 23 cards beyond the 208 that I know of so far. I've tried to keep track of the ones I've seen mentioned but I'm not sure of any other comprehensive listing of all of them out on the internet. Happy to add others that are known about as well that I'm missing.
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T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (196/200)
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E90-1 (88/121)
E91-A/B/C (56/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (37/100)
W512/W513 (97/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (173/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (236/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (71/108)

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Last edited by Cozumeleno; 11-14-2018 at 01:25 PM.
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:52 PM
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orioles70 orioles70 is offline
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Thanks for the info on those other variations...Well, I don't know about those other 10 cards you listed but I have 219 of the 221...I am missing the Wilhelm "suffered" and Mathewson "1 Loss" variations...I also have at least 2 cards with all the different tobacco brands on back including 2 Drum and 2 Hindu backs...I guess I do consider my T205 set complete but it would be kinda nice to get those other 2 variations sometime

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  #4  
Old 11-15-2018, 01:41 PM
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Nice - I stopped trying at 208 but have bought another 8-10 of the others when I've found them cheap enough. I'm not much of an errors/master set guy so I'm not too worried about it. But nice to find them when I can.
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T201 Mecca Double Folders (19/50)
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (196/200)
T218 Champions (153/153)
E90-1 (88/121)
E91-A/B/C (56/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (37/100)
W512/W513 (97/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (173/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (236/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (71/108)

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  #5  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozumeleno View Post
Nice - I stopped trying at 208 but have bought another 8-10 of the others when I've found them cheap enough. I'm not much of an errors/master set guy so I'm not too worried about it. But nice to find them when I can.
This is where I am. It has taken me long enough to find the cards in EX to NM condition to get to 208 and I still have a few upgrades. I won't ever get the Hoblitzell no stats or Wilhelm suffered and will only get the others if I can get them cheap too. I am happy at 208 plus whatever variations I end up with.
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2018, 08:15 AM
gonzo gonzo is offline
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The basic set is the 208 as folks have mentioned above. Note that the different pictures are distinct cards, not variations as such. “Collins Open Mouth” and “Collins Closed Mouth” are just different cards, like “Cobb Bat On” and “Cobb Bat Off” for T206s.

The “Master Set” is really whichever variations you decide you want to collect. The PSA and SGC registries have their own opinions about which variations to include. I wouldn’t consider those “official” outside of the context of the specific registry. Some people choose one of those to go by, especially if they have a set registered. Both are slow to add new variations, and I’d suggest only using them as a starting point and adding whatever variations you find interesting even if the registries don’t list them. “Unlisted” variations tend to be less expensive than “official” ones, since registry folks are chasing the latter.


Probably the best way to learn about “unlisted” variations is this board. If you search in Google for
site:net54baseball.com new t205 variation
that alone gives a wealth of information from other board members.


A few highlights, some already mentioned in Cozumeleno’s link above:

The Collins Closed Mouth “Yellow Elephant”:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=150383

A missing decimal point for Sovereign Fred Snodgrass:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=218157

Printing differences for Hoffman, including the “green stripe”:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=192728

A few Titus cards have a blotch over the world “has”:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243236

Some Honest Long Cut Latham cards seem to have remnants of the “W.” before the “A. Latham” on the back.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240610

Doc White missing quotes on Polar Bear backs
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=140229

and a few others.


Individual collectors have different opinions on what “should” count as a variation versus a print defect, so keep that in mind when reading these threads. But it’s really up to the individual collector, what they want to collect!
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WTB/WTTF: (larger want list here)
• T205s: rare backs and freaks
• Christy Mathewson: T332 Helmar Stamp
• Christy Mathewson: 1914 Pritchard Stamp

See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list.
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2018, 08:59 AM
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Cozumeleno Cozumeleno is offline
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Thanks, Michael - didn't know about the Snodgrass before and have added it.
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Primary Interests:
T201 Mecca Double Folders (19/50)
T205 Gold Border (208/208)
T206 White Border (520/520)
T207 Brown Background (196/200)
T218 Champions (153/153)
E90-1 (88/121)
E91-A/B/C (56/99)
N28/N29 Allen & Ginter (37/100)
W512/W513 (97/100)
1933-41 Goudey Run (173/478)
1939-41 Play Ball Run (236/473)
1982-83 Wrestling All-Stars PSA Set (71/108)

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Creator of:
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:34 AM
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Nice write up on the subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
The basic set is the 208 as folks have mentioned above. Note that the different pictures are distinct cards, not variations as such. “Collins Open Mouth” and “Collins Closed Mouth” are just different cards, like “Cobb Bat On” and “Cobb Bat Off” for T206s.

The “Master Set” is really whichever variations you decide you want to collect. The PSA and SGC registries have their own opinions about which variations to include. I wouldn’t consider those “official” outside of the context of the specific registry. Some people choose one of those to go by, especially if they have a set registered. Both are slow to add new variations, and I’d suggest only using them as a starting point and adding whatever variations you find interesting even if the registries don’t list them. “Unlisted” variations tend to be less expensive than “official” ones, since registry folks are chasing the latter.


Probably the best way to learn about “unlisted” variations is this board. If you search in Google for
site:net54baseball.com new t205 variation
that alone gives a wealth of information from other board members.


A few highlights, some already mentioned in Cozumeleno’s link above:

The Collins Closed Mouth “Yellow Elephant”:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=150383

A missing decimal point for Sovereign Fred Snodgrass:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=218157

Printing differences for Hoffman, including the “green stripe”:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=192728

A few Titus cards have a blotch over the world “has”:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=243236

Some Honest Long Cut Latham cards seem to have remnants of the “W.” before the “A. Latham” on the back.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240610

Doc White missing quotes on Polar Bear backs
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=140229

and a few others.


Individual collectors have different opinions on what “should” count as a variation versus a print defect, so keep that in mind when reading these threads. But it’s really up to the individual collector, what they want to collect!
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  #9  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:56 PM
eliotdeutsch eliotdeutsch is offline
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I just noticed that for some reason the PSA basic registry excludes the Chase one ear and the wallace no cap. Any idea why?
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:59 PM
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swarmee swarmee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliotdeutsch View Post
I just noticed that for some reason the PSA basic registry excludes the Chase one ear and the wallace no cap. Any idea why?
Could be:
1) Nobody working on the set asked for them to be added.
2) They were requested to be added, but they put it to a vote and the people currently collecting the set decided not to include them.

Those are the normal steps.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2019, 08:16 AM
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If I were a master set collector then #1 makes sense and #2 would never make sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Could be:
1) Nobody working on the set asked for them to be added.
2) They were requested to be added, but they put it to a vote and the people currently collecting the set decided not to include them.

Those are the normal steps.
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Last edited by Leon; 03-15-2019 at 08:16 AM.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:36 AM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is offline
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Sorry to jump in here but I'm a complete novice at this set but picked up a couple 205's the last couple weeks just to have. My question is on the backs... did they all come with different backs, like 206's and does the 205 collector go for different variations of backs? Are there certain backs that are more scarce than others? I see that PSA doesn't label them with the back variations. These are pretty confusing to me. Here are the 3 I picked up today. I am pretty sure they are all commons and of course, low grade. Just wasn't sure if any of the backs were better than others.
Thanks guys!
Tim
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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swarmee swarmee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
If I were a master set collector then #1 makes sense and #2 would never make sense to me.
This is a basic set. For master sets, PSA will add them without worry about whether or not the other people going for the set agree (unless they made 3 or less of the card in the first place). That mostly applies to player registries, where if they put 1/1 and #/3 cards in the player master set, only one or a few people could get them and make it harder for other collectors to compete.

To Tim, yes, the backs can greatly vary the value of a T205. Kind of dated, but it probably hasn't changed that much in the last 12 years:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/net5...ty-t18631.html
And PSA should definitely specify the backs, but for some reason, are unwilling to.
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PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2019, 10:05 AM
gonzo gonzo is offline
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Default T205 card+back combos

www.t205resource.com used to have a list of card + back combos, but that site is not accessible right now.

You can see a version from a few years ago at
https://web.archive.org/web/20150906...stsmaster.html

Though there are a few combos that have been discovered since then, that list covers the great majority of them.


This thread also has some great information:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...230355&page=10
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WTB/WTTF: (larger want list here)
• T205s: rare backs and freaks
• Christy Mathewson: T332 Helmar Stamp
• Christy Mathewson: 1914 Pritchard Stamp

See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2019, 08:48 PM
Promethius88 Promethius88 is offline
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Thanks everyone! Skimmed thru and just that was very helpful. Still have a lot of reading to do!
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2019, 12:56 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
This is a basic set. For master sets, PSA will add them without worry about whether or not the other people going for the set agree (unless they made 3 or less of the card in the first place). That mostly applies to player registries, where if they put 1/1 and #/3 cards in the player master set, only one or a few people could get them and make it harder for other collectors to compete.

To Tim, yes, the backs can greatly vary the value of a T205. Kind of dated, but it probably hasn't changed that much in the last 12 years:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/net5...ty-t18631.html
And PSA should definitely specify the backs, but for some reason, are unwilling to.

To me that seems even stranger, those aren't simple variations like missing punctuation, but totally different cards. Without checking a book, I believe both were checklisted long before PSA existed. It seems odd that they would leave them out.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:43 PM
eliotdeutsch eliotdeutsch is offline
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Does anyone have any info on the Wallace 1 Line?
Is this card an error similar to Moran or closer to a variation like Graham or Shean?
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2019, 07:17 PM
gonzo gonzo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliotdeutsch View Post
Does anyone have any info on the Wallace 1 Line?
Is this card an error similar to Moran or closer to a variation like Graham or Shean?
There are two basic Wallace cards - with cap and without cap, the latter having two variations - 1-line and 2-lines of 1910 stats.

It’s actually the more common 2-lines variation that was a mistake. The second 1910 line is carried over from John Miller (which is kind of interesting, since that’s a National League card). So yes, very much like Moran or Grey.
__________________
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WTB/WTTF: (larger want list here)
• T205s: rare backs and freaks
• Christy Mathewson: T332 Helmar Stamp
• Christy Mathewson: 1914 Pritchard Stamp

See the Want List for "Successful net54 transactions" list.

Last edited by gonzo; 03-19-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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