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  #1  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:05 AM
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Default Nice price last night on a 58 Aaron SGC 7

3/13/19 eBay Auction | Image pwcc_auctions c***g 30 $1,159.00
10/11/17 eBay Image pwcc_auctions r***g 8 $192.50
8/14/16 eBay Image bigmac1960 d***s Best Offer $210.00
2/18/16 eBay Image carterscards2006 r***d 19 $146.50
1/8/16 Goodwin Image 8 $261.60
6/29/15 eBay Image carterscards2006 k***u 28 $243.50
12/16/14 eBay Image vccllc 2***_ 18 $213.50
2/10/14 Heritage Image 5 $215.00

Yes it was well-centered. It also had a divot or something on the left side. WT..... is going on here?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/401720399...2047675.l10137
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
3/13/19 eBay Auction | Image pwcc_auctions c***g 30 $1,159.00
10/11/17 eBay Image pwcc_auctions r***g 8 $192.50
8/14/16 eBay Image bigmac1960 d***s Best Offer $210.00
2/18/16 eBay Image carterscards2006 r***d 19 $146.50
1/8/16 Goodwin Image 8 $261.60
6/29/15 eBay Image carterscards2006 k***u 28 $243.50
12/16/14 eBay Image vccllc 2***_ 18 $213.50
2/10/14 Heritage Image 5 $215.00

Yes it was well-centered. It also had a divot or something on the left side. WT..... is going on here?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/401720399...2047675.l10137
Peter do you seriously have to even ask anymore?
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:36 AM
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Peter do you seriously have to even ask anymore?
Well Ben, every time an insane price is discussed there are people who try to rationalize it, so I'm waiting.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:38 AM
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Well Ben, every time an insane price is discussed there are people who try to rationalize it, so I'm waiting.
Yes and there is a very good reason those people rationalize it. I am sure you know why that is also.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:38 AM
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Just imagine what the price would've been with a PWCC High End sticker on it!
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:39 AM
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I attribute it to the new SGC website.
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:42 AM
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PWCC seems to be becoming one of the top auction houses. Unreal.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:44 AM
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PWCC seems to be becoming one of the top auction houses. Unreal.
They are, and for good reason, but that does not explain a price this far disproportionate to any reasonable assessment of value.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:50 AM
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They are, and for good reason, but that does not explain a price this far disproportionate to any reasonable assessment of value.
Someone obviously thinks they can recondition it into a higher grade. Might end up being a tad shorter the next time it is in a holder but as someone alluded to yesterday, as long as it is in a holder it is all good.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:53 AM
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Someone obviously thinks they can recondition it into a higher grade. Might end up being a tad shorter the next time it is in a holder but as someone alluded to yesterday, as long as it is in a holder it is all good.
It already looks short to me side to side, I don't see that happening.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:56 AM
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The HE PWCC T206 Matty dark cap PSA 5 for $3900 raised my eyebrows a bit. But that's PWCC these days
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:02 AM
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It already looks short to me side to side, I don't see that happening.
I was suggesting someone THINKS they can get the job done. What is your opinion on why a $200 card would sell for this much?
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:04 AM
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What's good for PWCC is good for America.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:13 AM
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Centered better than most 58s and someone thinks they can fix that divot. It looks like something is going on with the right side border too, but that may just be a smudge on the slab. Card doctors looking to get this into a better PSA slab?
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  #15  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:40 AM
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I am surprised no one has started an arbitrage business. Buy cards from normal eBayers, send to PWCC, realize the profit (even with their fees).
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  #16  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
3/13/19 eBay Auction | Image pwcc_auctions c***g 30 $1,159.00
10/11/17 eBay Image pwcc_auctions r***g 8 $192.50
8/14/16 eBay Image bigmac1960 d***s Best Offer $210.00
2/18/16 eBay Image carterscards2006 r***d 19 $146.50
1/8/16 Goodwin Image 8 $261.60
6/29/15 eBay Image carterscards2006 k***u 28 $243.50
12/16/14 eBay Image vccllc 2***_ 18 $213.50
2/10/14 Heritage Image 5 $215.00

Yes it was well-centered. It also had a divot or something on the left side. WT..... is going on here?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/-/401720399...2047675.l10137
That IS a nice price. And I wouldn't buy that card at that price...

But before we really start piling on, it should be noted that the comps Peter pulled are a bit old. The most recent one is nearly 1.5 years old, the second-most recent more than a year older than that and all others range from three to five years prior to this sale. And if we are going to draw strong conclusions on a sale, I'd prefer to have more recent comps (and a decent number of more recent comps) to base them on.
It strikes me as ironic that on a board with an unofficial motto of "Buy the card, not the holder," that an impressive return on an impressive card is criticized. That is a fine example of that card (and really - why didn't it get the HE/purple label/etc. treatment?) and I don't begrudge the new owner at all for going above and beyond in acquiring it. I've spent more than the going rate on a few cards in my time when it was something I really wanted, as I think most collectors have at some point, even if I wouldn't come close to putting this much money on this specific card.
And if anybody here has cards on my want list that they'd part with for prices from a few years ago, please get in touch!
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:02 AM
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An absolute killer PSA 7 far nicer than this card with a divot and print issues just sold for 600 or so. Next argument?
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  #18  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
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An absolute killer PSA 7 far nicer than this card with a divot and print issues just sold for 600 or so. Next argument?
Got a link? It'd be good to make that comparison.
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  #19  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:09 AM
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.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:13 AM
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Dang, that's a smokin' Aaron. If that went for $600-ish recently, the PWCC one is crazy - particularly since it's SGC and the $600-ish one is PSA so I'd think the registry folks would provide a bump...
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  #21  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:19 AM
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It does look good (the PSA one), but there appears to be some kind of print defect on his neck.
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:30 AM
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That PSA one sold for $633.50 on Feb. 26 (last month). For my money and all attributes considered on both that one and the SGC example, I'd rather have the PSA one and another $500+ in my pocket...
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
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That PSA one sold for $633.50 on Feb. 26 (last month). For my money and all attributes considered on both that one and the SGC example, I'd rather have the PSA one and another $500+ in my pocket...
Yup. Not even close. But even if you marginally preferred the divot card for some reason, there is no merits-based explanation of the price.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Yes it was well-centered. It also had a divot or something on the left side. WT..... is going on here?
Based on your numbers, it looks like the previous record for this card in this grade was $243.50. This auction had 8 different bidders well over that amount. It had 4 different bidders over $600 (the PSA card you reference). Sure, maybe 1 or 2 might have been false bids, but that many?
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:40 AM
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On the SGC one that PWCC sold, three people bid at least $750 on it, with two bids surpassing $1,100 - and all it takes is those two to believe there is merit in the card (even if the rest of us don't). I bet the person who bid $750 probably thought the bid might win by a decent margin too... and then promptly missed it by more than $400.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
An absolute killer PSA 7 far nicer than this card with a divot and print issues just sold for 600 or so. Next argument?
It's just my opinion but, to me, the SGC 7 is much nicer than the PSA 7. The PSA 7, really looks like a 6 or 6.5 to me. Look at that bottom left corner. That alone should have kept it out of a 7 holder. On the other hand, the SGC 7 has much sharper corners and really looks like a 7.5 or 8 to me. If I were buying one of those two cards and the price was the same, I would pick the SGC hands down.
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  #27  
Old 03-14-2019, 12:50 PM
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Not all buyers check sold listings, check VCP, check available comps and wait for a bargain.

Some people just see a card they like and buy it.

I bet most of the people that buy off PWCC have never heard of VCP.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:59 PM
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The PSA 7 is a nice card but comparing the SGC to the PSA 7, the SGC 7 is a bit better. Not $500+ better, imo. The final price really does not make sense but many instances have been pointed out here where cards have sold for numbers far in excess of what previous examples have gone for.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:05 PM
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What are you people talking about?
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  #30  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Whaat are you people talking about?
Come on, Peter. That little speck makes the PSA 7 "far nicer" than the SGC 7? If not, then what makes it far nicer? How do you know it's not a speck on the scanner? To me, it looks a different color than the rest of the border, so it could be a speck on the scanner in just the right spot to make it appear as if it's something on the border. Besides, look at the back - the speck is not there.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:21 PM
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Come on, Peter. That little speck makes the PSA 7 "far nicer" than the SGC 7? If not, then what makes it far nicer? How do you know it's not a speck on the scanner? To me, it looks a different color than the rest of the border, so it could be a speck on the scanner in just the right spot to make it appear as if it's something on the border. Besides, look at the back - the speck is not there.
Look again, it is. You're wrong. It's a defect of some sort.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
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Look again, it is. You're wrong. It's a defect of some sort.
Fair enough. But does that really make the PSA 7 far nicer than the SGC 7? If you really think so, you must be overlooking the top/bottom centering, the divot on the bottom border and the soft bottom left corner of the PSA card.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:33 PM
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David, whether one prefers the SGC or PSA 7 really has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
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David, whether one prefers the SGC or PSA 7 really has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
So what is the point of your thread? We all know what is not the point of the thread because you have shot done almost every reply. Don't keep us in suspense any longer...
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
David, whether one prefers the SGC or PSA 7 really has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
It's not a matter of preference. You said the PSA card was far better than the SGC card. I'm asking what makes it far better other than that tiny speck?

Edited to add: I agree with the previous poster. What is the point of this thread?

Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 03-14-2019 at 02:00 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
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It's not a matter of preference. You said the PSA card was far better than the SGC card. I'm asking what makes it far better other than that tiny speck?

Edited to add: I agree with the previous poster. What is the point of this thread?
I'm guessing the point of the thread is someone is dumbfounded that this particular card would bring that much at auction and wanted to vent?
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  #37  
Old 03-14-2019, 02:07 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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If cards always always go for the same range then there will never be a large increase or decrease in value.

Its fun to look at some price history over the years on big cards....its not uncommon to see 500% differences in prices over the years...sooner or later there is probably one unusual buy price in the history

of course as said there are other reasons of why prices change or are manip.......
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
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David, whether one prefers the SGC or PSA 7 really has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
If that's true then your thread is missing the point. That sgc 7 is dead centered and blows away the psa example. There are a few collectors that step up for cards with very rare centering and eye appeal. When two of these collectors go after such a card it often leads to a record price that seems out of line with current valuations.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:25 PM
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The top 4 bidders have zero retractions. Is it still possible something is going on? Sure. But you're going to have to be far cleverer than I am to catch someone. So you wind up coming across that like Simpson's GIF:

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Old 03-14-2019, 02:28 PM
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PWCC definitely gets top prices. I put in what I thought was a strong late bid for the Goodwin King Kelly and got blown away, to put it mildly.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
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The top 4 bidders have zero retractions. Is it still possible something is going on? Sure. But you're going to have to be far cleverer than I am to catch someone. So you wind up coming across that like Simpson's GIF:

Retractions, LOL. They haven't been used for shilling auctions in a very long time. Maybe some idiots still use them but the big guys have been using other methods for several years.

This post has nothing to do with this auction or seller, just on how shilling has evolved.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:41 PM
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[quote=vintagetoppsguy;1862582]It's not a matter of preference. You said the PSA card was far better than the SGC card. I'm asking what makes it far better other than that tiny speck?


Looks like the PSA card has a better front print surface then the SGC card...less print dots and some yellow showing through the red on the SGC near the bottom...

Too bad couldn't merge the corners and centering of the SGC and surface of the PSA...

On the bidding side looks like 3 or 4 folks bid hearty and then ran out of money...lol
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
Retractions, LOL. They haven't been used for shilling auctions in a very long time. Maybe some idiots still use them but the big guys have been using other methods for several years.

This post has nothing to do with this auction or seller, just on how shilling has evolved.
I understand, but my point is with ebay's anonymous system I think it's impossible to catch them so what's the point? I mean the run up of 2016 didn't rely on retractions but the PWCC guys did for a lot longer simply because they could.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:51 PM
ejharrington ejharrington is offline
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PWCC definitely gets top prices. I put in what I thought was a strong late bid for the Goodwin King Kelly and got blown away, to put it mildly.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:25 PM
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eBay is a different auction format. If I want to win a 1964 Bob Lillis SGC 96 that I think is worth about $35, then I need to bid in the dark $50 if I want a chance to win, and if I really want it, I need to bid $200. That I win it for $28.69 after bidding $50 encourages me to do that the next time because I bid $33 on the Ken Johnson which sold for $34. I would let both go at $40 in a traditional, turn taking auction format.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:35 PM
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+1


[.QUOTE=RCMcKenzie;1862606]eBay is a different auction format. If I want to win a 1964 Bob Lillis SGC 96 that I think is worth about $35, then I need to bid in the dark $50 if I want a chance to win, and if I really want it, I need to bid $200. That I win it for $28.69 after bidding $50 encourages me to do that the next time because I bid $33 on the Ken Johnson which sold for $34. I would let both go at $40 in a traditional, turn taking auction format.[/quote]
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