Cards with wrong backs???

[D.P.Johnson]

I'm not familiar with how vintage cards were printed, but is there a standard reason why some cards were printed with the wrong back???

My guess would be that the cards were printed on one side first and then the sheet was turned over and placed incorrectly back on the printing press???

(This question is specifically referring to cards with one player listed on the front and another player listed on the back.)

Was the printing process changed at some point so that cards are no longer printed with the wrong back or is this phenomenon still occurring today???

Thank you in advance for any responses...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

I'm not familiar with how vintage cards were printed, but is there a standard reason why some cards were printed with the wrong back???

My guess would be that the cards were printed on one side first and then the sheet was turned over and placed incorrectly back on the printing press???

(This question is specifically referring to cards with one player listed on the front and another player listed on the back.)

Was the printing process changed at some point so that cards are no longer printed with the wrong back or is this phenomenon still occurring today???

Thank you in advance for any responses...

Yes it is because the sheet got flipped. Sometimes it can be an alignment issue as well. In 2000 or 2001 I pulled two wrong back cards from a pack and I sold both of them a few years ago (had I known they wouldn't sell for more than $10/card I would have kept them). So yes it still can happen, but quality control is a lot better now.

[steve B]

It can happen a few ways.

Usually a number of sheets of one side are printed, then the whole batch is run through a different press, or the same press setup with different plates.

If a sheet gets stacked upside down the backs will all be wrong and upside down. And usually off center, but not always.

If a sheet gets misfed, and jams it can get the wrong backs on part of it. The other part is usually wrecked.

If there are different sheets - lets say sheet A and sheet B- If a sheet A gets run through along with the B sheets the backs will of course be wrong.

If the plates are made wrong the backs can be in the wrong place. One of the modern sets had that happen, maybe UD black diamond? I forget the year. They corrected it, but some wrong backs were common.

If the print run is large, some modern equipment might almost eliminate wrongbacks. Presses that print from a large roll of stock, presses that print both sides at once, that sort of thing.

Steve B

[D.P.Johnson]

Interesting responses; thank you...I assumed with modern printing techniques both sides to be printed simultaneously which would prevent any errors...

As a follow up question, if the printing error occurred because the sheet was flipped incorrectly, would the error backs usually correspond with the opposing number on the sheet???

For example, if a sheet had 8 rows with 10 cards per row, (80 cards total) and was flipped over incorrectly, would the error on the back of card #1 be card #80 and the back of card #2 be card #79, etc...Does this sound like it would be the most common way an error card would be produced???...

[swarmee]

1989 Topps and Fleer were notorious for wrong backs. Most famous to me (and I just found mine from way back when) were the Fleer Tom Brookens and Mike Heath cards.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Was the printing process changed at some point so that cards are no longer printed with the wrong back or is this phenomenon still occurring today???

Still occurs today.

In 2009 Topps put out a T206 set with modern players on the fronts. I thought it might be fun to build a set as a side project.

One of the packs I opened contained a card with Todd Helton on the front, but had a miscut back along with a portion of Eric Aybar's card back on it.

Jantz

[Pat R]

Koskie/Jeter

[EvilKing00]

i have a bonds 1987 rookie with spike owen on the back - got to chalk it up to human error, always happened probably always will

[D.P.Johnson]

Interesting...Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to why some of these would happen...I mean, I can't imagine the Jeter/Koskie card being a "flipping" error when looking at the card numbers...

[ChiSoxFan]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Interesting...Doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to why some of these would happen...I mean, I can't imagine the Jeter/Koskie card being a "flipping" error when looking at the card numbers...

Cards are not printed "consecutively" on sheets, that is card #4 in the set is not between cards #3 and #5 ... here is an example from 1985 Topps Sheet (image from someones eBay auction).



Guessing there is no particular reason how card numbers are placed on the sheet.



Thanks,
ChiSoxFan

[Pat R]

You can see the outline of Koskie's name and stats under Jeter's, I think Steve explained how this could have happened when I posted this card before
but it was a while ago and I don't remember. I have a couple more with the
wrong backs on them that came from the same box that I had bought when
they first came out.

[swarmee]

If I remember correctly (IIRC) from the Heath/Brookens one I posted before, the cards were laid out side by side on the front, but laid out the same way on the back. So instead of printing the Brookens on Brookens, it always printed on Heath in the early runs. Of course, this set had many other well-documented issues, so they made many changes to the print sheets over the run.

[Exhibitman]

Yeah, for what we collect it is usually a flipped sheet in the press. The card will often have an upside down back:




I am collecting a 1948 Leaf boxing wrong back set and the same cards always appear with the corresponding fronts, i.e., the Benny Leonard has the John L Sullivan back and the John L Sullivan has the Benny Leonard back.

FWIW, PSA won't slab these kinds of mistakes but SGC will [PSA kicked the part of my recent order that included a wrong back 1962 Drysdale and some other wrong backs and blank backs].

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Pat R

You can see the outline of Koskie's name and stats under Jeter's, I think Steve explained how this could have happened when I posted this card before
but it was a while ago and I don't remember. I have a couple more with the
wrong backs on them that came from the same box that I had bought when
they first came out.

Either the blue plate had Jeter in Koskies place, or the sheet was run through the blue run for a different sheet.

Either way it's only a half-wrongback Pretty cool.

Steve B

[D.P.Johnson]

Thank you ChiSoxFan for that Topps scan...It's interesting they would print the cards that way (out of order)...Also, thank you Exhibitman for your scans...Perhaps the "old school" way of printing is what normally caused the "flipping" errors, and the new card errors are cause from some other printing method???...IDK...But all of these type of error cards are pretty cool...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

1989 Topps and Fleer were notorious for wrong backs. Most famous to me (and I just found mine from way back when) were the Fleer Tom Brookens and Mike Heath cards.

Here are front/back pictures of the 89 Fleer Brookens/Heath wrong backs from a sheet.

[Leon]

You guys could at least think about pre-war....(and I realize the question had to do with one player on back.....)

[tedzan]

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TED Z
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[t206fix]

49 Bowman Kell

[pete zouras]