Authenticating vintage cards

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Posted By: Dylan

I have only purchased raw vintage cards when they are unexpensive. I haven't the knowledge yet to feel comfortable deal hunting for raw valuable HOF's with no guarantees. I would like to know what is the best type of magnifaction device to use to check cards. And at what loop 30X? 10X? I know they sell jewlery magnifiers on ebay for a few dollars of various magnifactions, what's the best one? And are there any other things to have on hand (i know of the black light test) when attempting to authenticate vintage cards?

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Posted By: jay behrens

a 10x loupe should be good enough. Also get a small black light. That will be able to detect most fakes.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I recommend 30x or better.

You don't have to learn how to authenticate eveything raw at once. You can start in areas and spread out with time. Some of the easier to authenticate, or at least identify reprints of, include the T205s (due to the metal on the borders), Ramleys (embossed and metal), N172 Old Judges and Fatimas (no dot pattern of any kind, as they are real photo).

Any time you already have a number of genuine cards from the issue, you shouldn't have trouble identifing a raw reprint, as a reprint invariably has one or more distinct problems with it-- including stuff like thickness, gloss, etc.

One thing to remember is that forgers are usally not trying to fool people who are experienced collectors with the set. They're trying to make a quick buck from people who've never owned a card from the set before. Even when they don't own a microscope or black light, avid collectors of a set-- whether T206s or 1986 Fleer basketball-- will usually be able to identify a reprint right away because the reprint looks distinctly different.

The reason collectors use adannced techniques is when they're buying something they haven't owned before. When you buy your first raw Allen & Ginter or Gypsie Queen you have nothing to compare the card to. Comparing the Gypsie Queen to a 1933 Goudey likely won't give any insight, even if the Goudey is genuine.

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Posted By: T E

Thanks, helpful stuff. Question-T206 authentication- solid black pinstripe line on border and brownish type on name? Those are the two that I know, are they correct?

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Posted By: davidcyleback

For the T206s, a simple thing to do is to compare the front (white border) surface and the back surface. Before printing they put a bright white coating to the front, to make the image brighter. It's kind of like they white washed or enameled the front before printing. The white borders are smooth, though not glossy. The backs, however, are a slightly different, darker color and have a more rough, fibery feel-- as the back didn't get the same 'enameling' treatment. Unless it's been laminated or whatever, the genuine T206 will have different front and back textues, and the white border will be whiter than the back. A card with the same texture front to back is a reprint.

After you buy a few T206s, it's not hard to identify reprints as they will all be different in a variety of ways. For example, I looked at a common T206 reprint and it was thinner and the front and back had the same too smooth surface and overall looked distinctly different than a real T206. Even though it's a big set, all the cards were made the same way, and if you buy a few PSA1 fair commons you have your sample cards for comparison. The only card that has a different gloss from the other cards is the T206 Ty Cobb Tobacco back-- but presumably someone will be purchasing their Cobb Tobacco back from Mastro or REA, not at a yard sale.

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Posted By: T E

Thanks!

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

TE and Dylan: Do not sell yourselves short. Your collections are important enuff to get the best reference book available on card authentication.

You will need to refer to it frequently, even well after you think that you have the hang of it.

It is typically available on the internet (sometimes even eBay) for about $25. quite a bargain. Well written and even understandable. And better: if you have questions on it, well, bring those questions here. But buy the book.

Oh, I forgot. Search under the word "cycleback"

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Many computer scan fakes of any white border card is usually simple to identify. The scan of the card will come out as tiny dots everywhere-- even where there should be no dots. For example, the white border and stains or dirt will be made up of dots under magnifcation. Obviously real dirt isn't made up of color dots. And if the darker back is scanned, especiallly on something like a 1951 Bowman or T3, there will be dots all over the back where there should be none anywhere. Real darker colored cardboard and any back stains should have no dots. Even a T206 back is off white and will have a multi color dot pattern when scanned and printed out.

A scanner and home come computer printer can make eye level realistic looking duplicaitons of old cards, photos and prints, but the digital photo translates everything into little tiny color dots-- even when it's an image of a tobacco stain and wood grain.

One could say a computer wiz could go the extra effert and remake the border and text, use real darker looking stock, keep the borders white and add his own tobacco stains. This is true, but when someone starts redoing the text and borders and lines and trying to match stock, the card usually ends up looking bad to people familiar with the card. And I'm talking about the collector looking at the card in an eBay auction, before he even sees it in person. There are 'fancy' reprints of T206s that have solid black borders and names and no-dot white borders, but the cards are obviously reprints in an online image as they don't look like the real T206s. Some have obviously oversized borders and many have the player's name in different font and size. If you collect T206s and look at the T206s in Mastro and REA auctions, these reprints will simply look fake.

The online version of the text Gil mentioned is at:
http://www.cycleback.com/baseballcards

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Posted By: T E

Thank you David for this info. I'd love to be a collector, but at this point I am pretty much a dealer of a wide range of items, including bb cards. I've gotten into the "dots" in the image over the last six months, to protect myself, (I've been hoodwinked once or three times) whether it is a Wyeth print or a t206.

Ultimately my goal is to bring fresh-to-market items to the collectors, whatever the item is. But knowledge is key.