Anyone Know a Chet Woods?

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Posted By: Brett

I'm not trying to be an ass, but why did you buy the card if you thought it was trimmed ?

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Posted By: T206Collector

[Nobody said anything about dating, besides you’re probably not my type, and yeah we know you’re not into it.]

By dating, I mean setting up a time and date to meet people that you met on the internet.

[“Stalk much?” LMAO Full of yourself much. “The Misfud Collection”]

If I have an ego, it's only because you have spent so much time researching me before writing the first post you wrote above. The fact that you readily know my first name, last name, set registry positions on two different websites, my position on grading, my position on permissible alterations, etc., is a little frightening. You may be laugnhing your butt off, but I'm honestly a little spooked that you're keeping such a good tally of my internet behavior and comments.

And if you are going to use my name, at least you could spell it correctly.

Also, I use my last name as a play off of "The Harris Collection" and the "Mr. X Collection."

[If you want to remain anonymous, perhaps labeling your collection with the provenance of your last name is not the way to go about staying anonymous.]

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about my anonymity. But I don't go out of my way to be public either. I sign every post with my e-mail address which uses my first initial and my last name. Buy and card from me/sell a card to me, and you'll get my address. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who I am. Even Adam J. Moraine was able to figure that out when he used my last name to call me Milfslut, or something akin... but I digress.

[No we are having a dispute over grade bumping which results in financial gain, regardless of methods.]

That is not the dispute I was having. You can take it up with SGC, PSA or GAI, all of which permit erasing and soaking gunk off of cards. You might even take it up with Leon who started a thread a little while back supporting these practices. Either way, I understand your position but I humbly disagree with it.

[Still don’t see a difference still chasing a numerical grade regardless of whose quality you like better.]

Okay. But there is a difference. Especially if you think the SGC numerical grade means something and the PSA numerical grade doesn't, as I do.

[For you to rag on guys who chase PSA 7’s and then to chase SGC 40’s the only difference I see is price differences within those perspective grades, not to mention the holier than thou attitude you come across with.]

I rag more on PSA chasers, than PSA 7 chasers, but I also view with suspicion SGC 80 and higher graded cards. It's just my opinion. 100 year old cards with sharp corners got to the 21st Century somehow, but how?

[No we don’t Paul. What we need is for you to just collect cards enjoy them and let it go, that’s what we really need.]

Thank you for guiding me as to what I should and should not post about. But I'll take my cues from elsewhere, if you don't mind. Especially since you are trying to bully me into stopping my soapbox rant by (a) bringing my first and last names into the equation; and (b) essentially calling me a card doctor.

[Holier than thou attitude.]

crying I learned it by reading you Wonkaticket. I learned it by reading you! I miss your long rants about other collectors, but am flattered by your recent posts about me. You're bringing the fun back to Net54. Seriously.

[But what I wont do is post here every other week insinuating that my way is the right way, and the rest of you suckers are Lemmings.]

Okay. But it's not like I start the anti-PSA threads. When someone else is griping about PSA, I just join in. And, in this case, given that I know and respect Chet, I believe I had that right and, frankly, obligation.

[Scores of PSA collectors…my we are self-adsorbed aren’t we? I can safely say these guys don’t care or loose a minute of sleep regarding your commentaries on the world of PSA and card grading.]

I obviously offended you and I have received strongly worded posts and e-mails from many PSA collectors in the past. That's what I was referring to. I couldn't care less if they care or lose a minute of sleep. I hope they sleep well.

[Your one man quest to wave the banner of SGC, isn’t and will not change anything about the ways these guys collect PSA cards or the way PSA grades them.]

Cool. But I like my banner.

[Yeah we ALL know, once again we ALL get it you like SGC.]

It's true.

I enjoy these little dialogues, but in the future I would prefer if you would be a little less mean in your posts. I don't really think the level of personal animosity in your initial post and replies is commensurate with my comments. I can take it, but I don't think it's fair argument.

Paul: I like SGC and think PSA collectors are lemmings.
Wonka: Paul, you're a bad person, and here are the 7 reasons why. If you keep talking about SGC I will keep talking about how you are a bad person.
Paul: Wonka, I'm not a bad person, I just hate PSA.
Wonka: Paul, you smell funny and I dislike you personally.
Paul: Okay, but what do you really think about me?

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Posted By: John

“If I have an ego, it's only because you have spent so much time researching me before writing the first post you wrote above. The fact that you readily know my first name, last name, set registry positions on two different websites, my position on grading, my position on permissible alterations, etc., is a little frightening. You may be laugnhing your butt off, but I'm honestly a little spooked that you're keeping such a good tally of my internet behavior and comments.”

Are you joking?? Don’t flatter yourself…researching you, what because I looked at the T206 set registries and recognized your name I’m now your Internet stalker??? Because I read you posts and disagreed with your views on things, I’m now out to get you?? After reading that line above I think the real reason you don’t want to meet any of us in public, is the home your in wont let you out.

“Okay. But there is a difference. Especially if you think the SGC numerical grade means something and the PSA numerical grade doesn't, as I do.”

We get it SGC rules PSA sucks; once again we get it Paul!

“Thank you for guiding me as to what I should and should not post about. But I'll take my cues from elsewhere, if you don't mind. Especially since you are trying to bully me into stopping my soapbox rant by (a) bringing my first and last names into the equation; and (b) essentially calling me a card doctor.”

Bully you off the soapbox…no, asking you to give it a bit of a rest as we all get your thoughts on the subject by now yes. Card doctor, yep sure did I called anyone who worked on a card regardless of the methods used to increase the cards grade. Which for the record would end up in the card selling for more, and I pointed out anyone who doesn’t disclose such works upon sale was card doctor in my opinion. We’ve had this discussion, as for taking it up with Leon; I did in the last post he started on the subject, but thanks for throwing his name in the mix.

“crying I learned it by reading you Wonkaticket. I learned it by reading you! I miss your long rants about other collectors, but am flattered by your recent posts about me. You're bringing the fun back to Net54. Seriously.”

What long rants about other collectors Paul? I’m calling BS on you on this one, find one. Besides the pissing match between Jim C and I long ago?? I don’t know enough of the collectors on this board or enough about them to even have long rants about them. But I have read enough of your commentaries to come to a conclusion about you.

“I obviously offended you and I have received strongly worded posts and e-mails from many PSA collectors in the past. That's what I was referring to. I couldn't care less if they care or lose a minute of sleep. I hope they sleep well.”

Once again don’t flatter yourself offend me? No, bore me to death with your same diarrhea of the mouth regarding your love for SGC and how PSA is the anti-Christ, and all PSA cards aren’t worth the plastic there in and SGC, and SGC blah blah. Big yes on that one.

Be a little less mean…hum ok? Perhaps you should not call people lemmings and rag on other peoples collecting habits and enjoyments, while were all being a little nicer. Good advice Paul perhaps I’ll make something nice out of paperclips and snot for you???

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1162994240/last-1163093840/IF+T206+Frank+Chance+Batting+were+in+auction

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Posted By: T206Collector

...is a joke from Kids in the Hall. It's a phrase I use all the time. It's a joke. I was just asking for the initial poster there to give us some more context. And then I answered his question seriously anyway.

But I am the first person to admit that I have made off-handed comments about people's collecting habits, to be sure. But I never brought their personal name or other opinions into the discussion. If you would like to continue to be mean in this thread, or you think I deserve it or something, I guess that's your prerogative. I thought I would let you know that you may have crossed that line with me. But if you are comfortably over it, that's your business.

[Don’t flatter yourself…researching you, what because I looked at the T206 set registries and recognized your name I’m now your Internet stalker???]

I'll stand by my initial post on the subject. Pulling together my prior comments from various sources and then writing threads about them is more than most people care to do in casual internet banter. It doesn't make you a stalker yet, it is just questionably personal.

[Because I read you posts and disagreed with your views on things, I’m now out to get you??]

No. But I do appreciate your reading my posts. And remembering them very well.

[After reading that line above I think the real reason you don’t want to meet any of us in public, is the home your in wont let you out.]

Another personal attack. I answered that one of the reasons I did not want to meet people had to do with my own insecurities. Since you are an ace with the Net54 search feature, would you mind posting my final say on that topic here for sake of argument? It had to do with me feeling bad about my initial rant and then admitting I was wrong.

[We get it SGC rules PSA sucks; once again we get it Paul!]

Once again, I get that you get it Wonka!

[Bully you off the soapbox…no]

Yes.

[asking you to give it a bit of a rest as we all get your thoughts on the subject by now yes.]

It was your tone that made it difficult to accept this pronouncement. Why do you constantly talk in the "we" about me? Who else dislikes me as you do? (If I acknowledge there are others, it's because I have an ego, right?)

[Card doctor, yep sure did I called anyone who worked on a card regardless of the methods used to increase the cards grade. Which for the record would end up in the card selling for more, and I pointed out anyone who doesn’t disclose such works upon sale was card doctor in my opinion. We’ve had this discussion, as for taking it up with Leon; I did in the last post he started on the subject, but thanks for throwing his name in the mix.]

I am just saying that it is a common dispute in the area of vintage cards. You brought it into this discussion to make it seem like I'm a horrible person, when it is a common and accepted thing in the industry. I am happy to have an intelligent discussion about why the removal of a card from a scrapbook or erasing a pencil number or name from the reverse in an effort to improve the appearance of a card and, yes, it's value, is not an impermissible alteration.


[What long rants about other collectors Paul? I’m calling BS on you on this one, find one.]

Now I'm stuck. Either I spend time doing research a la Wonka to see what I can find on him, or I just stand by my initial recollection that your posts were very interesting -- and I remember siding on your side on a few of them. But we are talking years ago, since you have not been a regular contributor in quite a while. You should not take my lack of interest to find what I remember enjoying to read as an admission that you never wrote something that was fun to read about others collecting habits.

[But I have read enough of your commentaries to come to a conclusion about you.]

Let me try your line of argument on this one: "Wonka, you don't like me. We get it. Let it go."

[Once again don’t flatter yourself offend me? No, bore me to death with your same diarrhea of the mouth regarding your love for SGC and how PSA is the anti-Christ, and all PSA cards aren’t worth the plastic there in and SGC, and SGC blah blah. Big yes on that one.]

So you respond to people that bore you by raising your personal issues with their comments in a series of posts? Once again, you are dodging the subject. Saying that I may have offended someone is not flattering myself anymore than saying that I have bored someone is flattering myself.

I am mostly flattered that you have spent your afternoon writing with me about my behavior on the Net54 board. When I first began reading this Board it was your posts that I often found myself identifying with. Your absence weakened the strength of this Board. I am happy that I encouraged you to participate today, unfortunately it was at my expense.

I guess we could go on and on here. I was hoping that I had learned something from all of this. I guess I should be more careful about throwing around anti-PSA drivel, but we'll have to see what kinds of PSA threads are written in the future.

Mostly, I am a little sad that an important member of the Board that I once respected has no respect for me. I guess having strong opinions about vintage baseball cards will sometimes lose the respect of others.

p.s. I couldn't resist. I got this e-mail from a Net54 collector on August 29, 2006:

"Stake out a sensible middle position like I have and now I am getting pounded from both sides!! Having [collector A] and Wonkaticket attacking me as some defender of card doctoring is pretty ironic, to say the least. Very entertaining though."

p.p.s. I found what I most recently remembered -- it was your hostile posts directed at Adam J. Moraine. I identified with those for sure. We all did, if I rememeber correctly. And there is a strange parallel between your comments to Mr. Moraine and your comments to me. But I don't think what my positions on cards, etc. has crossed that line, has it?

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Posted By: MikeU

I have not looked recently at a CU annual report, from recollection, for the last several years, they have budgeted some $500,000 to cover their guarantee e.g. cards and coins they overgraded or graded, but were altered. I assume a majority of this money is for the coin side of the business. From 2000-2004, they never approached the $500,000. I think $380,000 was probably the closest. In any case, they have a guarantee written into their annual report and budget for these cases. For their customer service to refuse to not refund the cost of the card if it is trimmed, is criminal or at least very telling, even to lemmings.

Whenever I sell GAI, BVG or PSA cards, I always note that there are no returns on graded cards. This is common practice, so I do not feel bad about doing it. When I sell SGC cards, I allow refunds or returns, as I know SGC will guarantee the card. I do not allow refunds for buyers remorse or feeling the card is not strong for the grade, only for legitimate misgrades or alterations. I have never had anyone return a card (knock on wood).

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Posted By: John

Paul,

It’s really nothing personal, and I really don’t research you I just have very good memory on things people say. I respect your opinion that you love SGC, and have a certain disregard for PSA. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I hate or dislike you. Also saying that I spend my days taking notes on you is also a little extreme and melodramatic even you would have to admit??

We also have both spent time today responding to each other so in some way I guess we can label each other stalkers.LOL

As far as an important member of this or any other board boy I hope there’s sarcasm in there? If not I can’t say I feel that way. I’m just a guy who collects cards, no more important than any other “Joe” in cyberspace. As far as my absence weakening the board, I doubt very seriously anyone lost any sleep over my lack of participation on this board myself included.

Truth be told I used to love to share images and knowledge on here, was a lot of fun. But then this place became more of a discussion board for the pros and cons of grading companies SGC rules PSA sucks, and if one was to have a discussion or disagreement on a topic it was labeled as attacking. Then we had our host of martyr’s to follow up.

Paul in conclusion I don’t hate you, just get tired of the PSA vs. SGC battle. I also don’t know of anyone else on here who hates you, and even if I did its up to them to tell you not me.I know your thoughts and so do the others here hence “we” so perhaps you don’t need to tell us each and every time all it does is continue the silly battle. IMO

As for the quote from the private email below to you from some un-named forum member having an opinion on me, kudos for what that’s worth.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Thanks for your reconciliatory post. The reason I don't start anti-PSA threads is because I am aware that the argument is exhausting. I got fired up today because I respect Chet Woods as a dealer -- one of the few that I have dealt with on a personal level in my life. But, I will keep in mind that my vitriol can have the unwanted affect of dumbing or dulling down the Board on occasion.

And on the e-mail, I went back and checked your posts on the subject -- which was doctoring cards -- and you were professional and not mean-spirited in conveying your opinion there. You know, for the record.

With that, I'm going to go home. I'm exhausted.

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Posted By: Steve

the topper is, that if its found to be trimmed like I know it is they offer no refunds to the customer, which is me



??

Then how is it a guarantee?

anyone have that answer?

Is the original submitter the only person who can go after them? what happenes if a card is sold more then once?



Steve