Are We Slaves To The Registry?

[frankbmd]

This may just be a variation of the state of the hobby, but focusing on specific issues within the hobby in terms of what has created "the current state of the hobby" may shed light and insight as to how we got here. A series of basically "what if" questions are listed. Comment on one or more or add a question to the list. Please note there are no rules to restrict posting on this thread.

What if the PSA Registry did not exist?

What if Pop reports did not exist?

What if TPGs did not exist?

What if VCP did not exist?

What if eBay allowed only 99 cent opening bid auctions without BINs?

What if high end cards didn't cost so much? Would less nefarious and fraudulent behavior be attracted to the hobby?

Are current products dependent on manufactured scarcity going to survive? What if there were no current products? Would the vintage market be adversely affected?

What if auction houses didn't sugar coat their "lots" with flowery descriptions and just laid them out like a flea market?

What if all cards did not have borders? Would centering fanatics go insane?

and finally

What if you couldn't find this thread because Net54 was banned from the internet?

[Leon]

Net54 banned from the internet? Interesting concept. Sometimes I think about what would happen if I just deleted the board. It is a 1 click function in the admin. Poof.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by leon

net54 banned from the internet? Interesting concept. Sometimes i think about what would happen if i just deleted the board. It is a 1 click function in the admin. Poof.

867949A4-C37A-49EF-9729-489BB65E1648.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Net54 banned from the internet? Interesting concept. Sometimes I think about what would happen if I just deleted the board. It is a 1 click function in the admin. Poof.

I double dog dare you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I double dog dare you.

Well, it won't happen but if it was done how could you respond?

And I think Frank asked too many "what if's".

.

[egri]

Originally Posted by Leon

Well, it won't happen but if it was done how could you respond? :eek

.

I think Edvard Munch captured the reaction of most of the board...

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

Well, it won't happen but if it was done how could you respond?

And I think Frank asked too many "what if's".

.

Just a menu Leon, so members only have to decide which question to answer, rather than what question to ask.

[brianp-beme]

We maybe, me no (answer to subject line question).

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Just a menu Leon, so members only have to decide which question to answer, rather than what question to ask.

I was only joking. Sorry to derail your thread.



What if the PSA Registry did not exist? The world would still be here.

What if Pop reports did not exist? See #1

What if TPGs did not exist? See #1

What if VCP did not exist? See #1

What if eBay allowed only 99 cent opening bid auctions without BINs?
See #1

What if high end cards didn't cost so much? Would less nefarious and fraudulent behavior be attracted to the hobby?
no

Are current products dependent on manufactured scarcity to survive? What if there were no current products? Would the vintage market be adversely affected?
See #1

What if auction houses didn't sugar coat their "lots" with flowery descriptions and just laid them out like a flea market?
See #1

What if all cards did not have borders? Would centering fanatics go insane?
yes

.

[Mark]

It would be a lot like 1990. Except with eBay instead of the SCD -- and also except for the part where someone (aliens?) trim the borders from all cards. It was OK, but I was operating in the dark much of the time.

[trdcrdkid]

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Mark

It would be a lot like 1990. Except with eBay instead of the SCD -- and also except for the part where someone (aliens?) trim the borders from all cards. It was OK, but I was operating in the dark much of the time.

True, and certainly much of what has happened in the last thirty years has gotten the hobby to its current state. But to be clear, the questions are a menu. In a restaurant you rarely order everything on the menu, and on this thread you need not answer all the questions and come up with a unifying concept.

For example, for those of us who eschew the registry and its impact on pricing the answer to the title question is “no” as we are not slaves.

or

My problem with pop reports are the plethora of ways that the information may be totally inaccurate, leading to incorrect assumptions regarding rarity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

True, and certainly much of what has happened in the last thirty years has gotten the hobby to its current state. But to be clear, the questions are a menu. In a restaurant you rarely order everything on the menu, and on this thread you need not answer all the questions and come up with a unifying concept.

For example, for those of us who eschew the registry and its impact on pricing the answer to the title question is “no” as we are not slaves.

or

My problem with pop reports are the plethora of ways that the information may be totally inaccurate, leading to incorrect assumptions regarding rarity.

I wonder how many posts have used both eschew and plethora.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

This may just be a variation of the state of the hobby, but focusing on specific issues within the hobby in terms of what has created "the current state of the hobby" may shed light and insight as to how we got here. A series of basically "what if" questions are listed. Comment on one or more or add a question to the list. Please note there are no rules to restrict posting on this thread.

What if the PSA Registry did not exist? I don't know.

What if Pop reports did not exist? I don't know.

What if TPGs did not exist? I don't know.

What if VCP did not exist? I don't know.

What if eBay allowed only 99 cent opening bid auctions without BINs? I don't know.

What if high end cards didn't cost so much? I don't know.
Would less nefarious and fraudulent behavior be attracted to the hobby? I don't know.

Are current products dependent on manufactured scarcity to survive? I don't know.
What if there were no current products? I don't know.
Would the vintage market be adversely affected? I don't know.

What if auction houses didn't sugar coat their "lots" with flowery descriptions and just laid them out like a flea market? I don't know.

What if all cards did not have borders? I don't know.
Would centering fanatics go insane? I don't know.

and finally

What if you couldn't find this thread because Net54 was banned from the internet?

I don't know.


I hope that my responses help to clarify my positions on these important issues.

Rick

[Vintagecatcher]

Frank forgot the most important question:

What if Leon's quarter never existed?

Answer: Bufferfly effect!

Patrick

[barrysloate]

I eschew gum...among other things.

[Bill77]

What if eBay allowed only 99 cent opening bid auctions without BINs?

I would have a lot less cards as I rarely win auctions.

[oldjudge]

The answer to the first four are that the hobby would be less wide spread and, even though my involvement with the registry is pretty minimal, I believe worse than it is today.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Leon

Well, it won't happen but if it was done how could you respond?

And I think Frank asked too many "what if's".

.

How would I respond? After one month - "Leon who....?"

Now about all those "what if's?"

TPG + Registry + Pop reports have all contributed to this hobby getting a bit whacky. Are they negatives? That depends on your interest in the hobby. For a lot of collectors it's just increased the price of card board. For others it has increased the value of their "card board portfolios".

[drcy]

Was listening to this crust classic just thing morning.

Slave, slave, slave
From the cradle to the grave
You made yourself the system's slave

Amebix- Slave

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I eschew gum...among other things.

And if you escheat, you will be estopped.

[Dpeck100]

I have a client that is really into 1950's classic cars. He has 18 that are in perfectly restored condition. He can tell you about every component and why each is valuable but the first thing he tells you about is how many were made and how many still exist.

The registry is nothing new to many forms of collectibles and it was only a matter of time until it came to cards. Something that attempts to track scarcity in quantity and quality is what drives collectibles markets so the registry shouldn't be viewed as something that is a negative.

Just this week Joe Orlando on his Twitter feed disclosed that PSA graded a 1932 U.S. Caramel William McKinley. In 28 years they have only graded two copies. Without the registry many would say this card is very rare and only a few are known. With the registry you can confirm that in 28 years PSA has only assessed two copies so it proves just how rare it is. Information is the key to confidence in collectibles so the more you can display the better.

The fact that a population report exists is extremely positive for card prices and I think it is a wonderful thing for the hobby. This scenario isn't slave like under any circumstances. Why anyone tries to fight the trend makes no sense to me. It isn't getting smaller but only exponentially bigger.

In terms of some of these what if's. It is pointless to even discuss because they do exist. We don't live in the great depression. There is money coming from every corner of the world so keeping a lid on prices just to appease a few isn't even possible. Why wouldn't people who collect things of value monitor and track prices? Of course they do that is a major driving force on how people determine what they think something is worth.

Puffery? Every consumer product has some level of puffery. Why do women where lingerie? To make you want it more. It takes seconds to take off but it certainly does the trick and entices you. People can pretend all they want that the fantasy descriptions don't help but they do. Humans like to read something and get excited and many auctions houses do a great job of putting lingerie on cards.

All of the information that is available to collectors has helped the hobby and I for one have no interest in going back in time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Which flavor?

[frankbmd]

When rarity is related to condition?

And when condition for registry purposes is related to grading?

And when the difference between a “9” and a “10” is so trivial that if the same card is submitted 10 times and receives a “10” twice and a “9” eight times?

And when on the days that the card is in a “10” holder it is worth 10 times the value of the days that it is in a “9” holder?

And when the most valuable graded card with a 00000001 cert number has been trimmed?

I do believe there is problem with delusion of those who

1 - believe in the integrity of the Registry game

2 - willingly support the exponential price escalation to add a point to their registry set for self-aggrandizement

3 - demean competing third party graders as grossly inferior because of valuation differential between identical cards

4 - seem to think that hobby would be better served if there was but one monopolistic third party grader selling a myth.

I respectfully disagree and will tell you how I really feel if requested.

I have no problem with classic cars though.

[Bram99]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Something that attempts to track scarcity in quantity and quality is what drives collectibles markets so the registry shouldn't be viewed as something that is a negative...
All of the information that is available to collectors has helped the hobby and I for one have no interest in going back in time.

I don't know why many of the Net54 old-guard and frequent posters to this board want to look down upon the increasing trend of popularity of the PSA registry. Maybe they don't like the idea that the hobby has changed.

I have put forth the theory on earlier posts that I believe the PSA registry and its' network effect is the most important reason for the persistent gap in prices between the graded cards of PSA and other TPG's.

Call it being a slave to the registry if you want. Call it Kool-Aid. But despite what the septuagenarians and sexagenarians of this board may believe, the hobby is changing and the registry is a big part of it. MLB is not going back to 154 games. Kids are not learning cursive anymore. Kids write with only one space after a period now. And the registry is not going away. Embrace the change rather than mock it.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Just this week Joe Orlando on his Twitter feed disclosed that PSA graded a 1932 U.S. Caramel William McKinley. In 28 years they have only graded two copies. Without the registry many would say this card is very rare and only a few are known. With the registry you can confirm that in 28 years PSA has only assessed two copies so it proves just how rare it is. Information is the key to confidence in collectibles so the more you can display the better.

Skewed logic. The only fact you can confirm is that PSA has graded only two copies of that particular card. It does not speak to rarity. Your statement is based on the assumption that anyone and everyone who owns that card would want it in a plastic tomb with an artificial number attached to it. There could be any number of non-sports collectors who don't give a rats rump about getting their cards graded and tracked. They could be happy just owning the cards and keeping them as they are.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Bram99

I don't know why many of the Net54 old-guard and frequent posters to this board want to look down upon the increasing trend of popularity of the PSA registry.

Let me count the ways:

1. It devalues knowledge. Putting together a top registry set doesn't require that the collector learn how to assess a card, just how to read a flip.

2. It increases competition between collectors, needlessly IMO. Registry geeks are constantly measuring themselves against other collectors rather than enjoying their compadres' collections.

3. It drives up prices by giving rich collectors reasons to battle over top specimens, which has the collateral effect of pricing many of us out of certain issues.

4. It dramatically increases the cost of collecting: slabbing stuff is expensive.

5. It makes storage of a substantial collection more difficult.

6. it grants a third party with a profit motive tremendous power over the hobby and its participants.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Skewed logic. The only fact you can confirm is that PSA has graded only two copies of that particular card.

Actually, it only proves that the people who get paid for their opinions have seen at least one copy of that card, but possibly two different times.

[barrysloate]

The registry is here to stay, but like many other collectors I ignore it because it has nothing to do with the way I collect. I don't compete with others and don't really care who has the best cards. I'm interested in baseball history, not slabs.

And as Adam said, it drives up prices to ridiculous levels. It becomes a "1%" hobby, and I can't play on that level. To each his own.

[jimjim]

“Are current products dependent on manufactured scarcity to survive? What if there were no current products? Would the vintage market be adversely affected?”

I am not a big card collector but I love this discussion. I started with cards in the late 1980’s like many 40 something’s but focused on autographs when I reentered the hobby 16 years ago. When I caught the bug to buy a few of my favorite cards from the 80’s I found out about the ‘registry’. To be honest, it has kept me away from collecting cards more than a dabble here and there because I don’t like the insanity surrounding this concept. But most people love it and I understand both sides.

Regarding the first question above, I’m sure this has been discussed over and over but PSA also creates manufactured scarcity when they slap a 10 on a flip. I have always wondered if there is some unwritten rule of how many 10s a grader can give out a day. There is so much wiggle room for a grader that they really control the market. I am waiting until grading is fully computerized and PSA launches a separate registry for those cards. Then I’ll be on board.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Michael B

Skewed logic. The only fact you can confirm is that PSA has graded only two copies of that particular card. It does not speak to rarity. Your statement is based on the assumption that anyone and everyone who owns that card would want it in a plastic tomb with an artificial number attached to it. There could be any number of non-sports collectors who don't give a rats rump about getting their cards graded and tracked. They could be happy just owning the cards and keeping them as they are.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. If there was a plethora of them out there after 28 years of card grading more would have worked their way to third party graders. If this recent grading specimen comes for sale the "puffery" used will be glorious.


From PSA card facts.


The classic 1932 U.S. Caramel Presidents set (R114) contains one of the most highly-sought non-sports cards in the hobby, the extremely scare William McKinley card. The McKinley card was actually not confirmed to exist until the early 1990s and is so scarce that the set is considered to be complete at 30 cards rather than the 31 with McKinley included. Distributed in limited supply to encourage continued sales of their product to children attempting to complete their set. A redemption was available by sending in a complete set of cards to be exchanged for a one-pound box of assorted chocolates. In fact, the cards would also be returned with the candy, though defaced by cancellation stamps or punch holes.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Bram99

I don't know why many of the Net54 old-guard and frequent posters to this board want to look down upon the increasing trend of popularity of the PSA registry. Maybe they don't like the idea that the hobby has changed.

I have put forth the theory on earlier posts that I believe the PSA registry and its' network effect is the most important reason for the persistent gap in prices between the graded cards of PSA and other TPG's.

Call it being a slave to the registry if you want. Call it Kool-Aid. But despite what the septuagenarians and sexagenarians of this board may believe, the hobby is changing and the registry is a big part of it. MLB is not going back to 154 games. Kids are not learning cursive anymore. Kids write with only one space after a period now. And the registry is not going away. Embrace the change rather than mock it.

I started reading this forum in 2010 and didn't really start posting much at all for another five years or so. Back in the early days when card prices were just starting to take off the spread between SGC and PSA in terms of prices was fairly modest. This has always been an anti PSA and in love with SGC board and so it was easy to have the position of I hate PSA and they are what is wrong with the hobby even though they were dominating from a new card submission standpoint. Fast forward to today when there isn't a week that goes by where a thread is started highlighting the extreme spread between the two in prices and now it is no longer fun and games but hurting people in the pocket. I get it that people are upset because they know that the market has moved in a way that doesn't financially support their position or to its fullest extent and that hurts.

I can't help but laugh when people say that putting together registry sets doesn't take anything but money. That is completely flawed logic. Anyone who is putting together registry sets generally submits cards on their own, picks and chooses cards from other TPG and tries to cross them through either an in holder cross or a crack out. When I am staring at a raw card and determining if it is worthy of submission there is no flip on it and I need to make a good decision one whether to submit it because it isn't free.

Manufactured scarcity is what the hobby needed because sales of new cards had fallen so much that creating a lottery ticket scenario was the only way to get people to buy packs. If there was demand for 2 million of each card a year they wouldn't be doing this but those days are never coming back. The onset of third party grading population reports is met to do the same thing. It has been extremely effective in doing just that and is only going to get bigger.

There is one thing in life you can't do and that is stop change. It happens whether you like it or not and the card business was for ever changed when third party grading entered and that trend is only getting stronger and so one can either change with the times or fight it that is their choice.

[frankbmd]

As an appendage to my prior post

If an item is truly rare, the sky is the limit on pricing. For example, if there are only two of an item extant, and ten people feel they “need” to have it in an auction, then have at it.

However if there are only two of an item based on a PSA Pop Report such as a “10” of any card, and if there are 87 “9” s of the same card or item and 342 “8” s of the same card, all of which are barely discernible as different without an electron microscopic, then there is something rotten in Denmark.

If you cannot differentiate between these two examples, you have missed the point of this thread. I am not on an campaign to eliminate the Registry or PSA, nor am I eager to return to the early years of the twentieth century and get my Cobbs by smoking Piedmonts.

Members of this board are entitled to have different opinions. Mine is not unique. Has the hobby become a lottery ticket or a casino based on manufactured rarity? If so, I consider that unfortunate change. I prefer to collect baseball history rather than sit at a blackjack table, and I have done both successfully.

[Peter_Spaeth]

TPG has many positives, but what I like least about it is that it has, IMO, resulted in the slabbing of a vast number of altered cards, enriched many a criminal card doctor, and created a generation of collectors who seem to have no knowledge of or concern about alteration.

[barrysloate]

David- I agree with you completely that the hobby is changing. Everything in life changes, and we don't always accept those changes easily.

But are you suggesting that part of what makes the new hobby great (my word "great") is buying raw cards to get them slabbed, and to look for undergraded cards to get them crossed-over? That doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy. If anything, it corroborates Frank's original point that we are becoming too beholden to third party grading.

Another way the hobby is changing is that set breaks have become extremely popular at baseball card shows. From what I hear, they have become a rage. But it seems to me that they could just as easily take place in a Las Vegas casino as they would at a baseball card show. It's really more a game of chance, like roulette or blackjack, than it is a form of card collecting.

So while these changes may be embraced by some, they make me long for the good old days. Hope the old fashioned way never goes out of style. Again, the history of what I collect is much more important to me than what label a quasi-expert slaps onto a plastic slab. That said, collect whatever you like, however you like doing it.

[drcy]

I'm definitely an old timer about collecting, in sentiments if not age, and am apt to criticize, and sometimes mock, the registry and grading. Believe it or not, I've never sent in a card for grading and have owned a total of perhaps 10 graded cards. However, there's no one-size-fits all to collecting, and if people enjoy set breaks and the registry that's no harm to me.

In the 1990s, I collected and sold modern cards (along with old), so I never criticize modern collectors or modern cards (sans those dumb autograph cuts ones). I think many modern inserts are rather neat.

To each his own.

[ullmandds]

Well Frank...if TPG'ers didn't exist, neither would the majority of your questions?

I believe the registry is voluntary...so we are not slaves to the registry...we are slaves to the TPG'ers!

[Touch'EmAll]

I can see how some people like the registry, others dislike. Whatever you like is ok. Years back I started a couple registry player sets, eventually stopped, not my cup of tea. The registry has helped drive up prices, that is good for what I own, no real complaints here on that topic. After all, don't we all want our stuff to go up in value.

As for TPGers, the biggest thing I like is being able to buy a PSA 7 card, and for the most part, you actually receive a true NMT card. Back before TPG, you often bought a supposed advertised NMT card, and was disappointed when you got it - not really NMT, overgraded and actually maybe EXMT. Then you get to haggle with the seller to send it back, the return, the wait, finally get a refund if all goes well.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

David- I agree with you completely that the hobby is changing. Everything in life changes, and we don't always accept those changes easily.

But are you suggesting that part of what makes the new hobby great (my word "great") is buying raw cards to get them slabbed, and to look for undergraded cards to get them crossed-over? That doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy. If anything, it corroborates Frank's original point that we are becoming too beholden to third party grading.

Another way the hobby is changing is that set breaks have become extremely popular at baseball card shows. From what I hear, they have become a rage. But it seems to me that they could just as easily take place in a Las Vegas casino as they would at a baseball card show. It's really more a game of chance, like roulette or blackjack, than it is a form of card collecting.

So while these changes may be embraced by some, they make me long for the good old days. Hope the old fashioned way never goes out of style. Again, the history of what I collect is much more important to me than what label a quasi-expert slaps onto a plastic slab. That said, collect whatever you like, however you like doing it.

Barry my comment was simply saying that it takes more than money to create a top registry set. You have to hunt and take chances and money alone doesn't do that for you. There is real skill involved in finding raw cards or cards in other third party graded holders that you think you can achieve grades that work for you. I have hunted every single day since August of 2009 to build my sets. Left work dinners to go bid on cards forced wholesalers to bring their I-pads to lunches prior to me having a smart phone so I didn't miss out on chances to win. Stayed up wayyy past my bed time to make sure I won. Whatever it took. You have to want it and have passion and this notion that people who collect high grade cards only care about the slab is ludicrous.

I don't poke fun at people who only buy 5's and 6's. For the most part people buy what they can afford and so if that is what is in someone's budget so be it. If they are getting enjoyment out of buying and owning trading cards fantastic.

There was no graded wrestling card market before I came along. There wasn't countless people that said wow that is a great investment I need to get in. I decided to collect a genre of cards that I cared about and that would give me enjoyment. That is the best reason to collect in my view but there are plenty of others that are just fine too.

Many on here play in the big boy space where cards go into the millions. No one can convince me you should be buying a card that is more than 5k and not have investment as part of the reason you are buying it. I think a lot of people try and convince themselves that they are only doing it for purity. There is no such thing. There is no right way to collect but what is constant around here is people taking shots at those that like to try and put high grade sets together as if they are what is wrong with the hobby. Who in there right mind would rather stare at a card that is beat to shit vs. near perfect? No one. High grade cards are drastically more ascetically pleasing and if money was no object everyone would collect them. You have to stay in your lane and collect what you can but firing shots at those that want the best is ridiculous.

I am not an average guy. Have no desire to be average and so it wouldn't make sense for me to try and collect average cards. It took me seven years to finally get the last card for my 82 A Wrestling All Stars set in a PSA 9 or higher. I cried when I put it on the wall in its new home because it stood for dedication and passion and kicking ass.

Third party grading is here to stay and so one can choose to live with it and ride the wave or keep their cards raw but it isn't going anywhere and the trend is only getting stronger.

[barrysloate]

Thanks David, and I understand that you collect the way that makes you happy. I think the registry has caused prices on high end cards to increase so drastically that there are only a small number of people who can even compete for them. I collect VG-Ex to Ex not because I like to see flaws on cards, but because high grade cards are out of my range.

When I saw the 1932 U.S. Caramel Hornsby sell for $52,000, I was astounded. I understand chasing after a Wagner or a Plank or a 52 Mantle, because those are iconic cards and there are countless collectors who would like to own them. But in my 37 years in the hobby, nearly 30 of them as a full time dealer, I never once had a collector come to me looking for a U.S. Caramel Hornsby. That's an esoteric set, and while Hornsby was a great player, his cards are not as popular as Cobb or Matty or Wajo. That price was almost surely a product of two registry collectors going head to head until one of them blinked.

So yes, as you said the hobby has changed and many of us are scratching our heads and watching prices reach levels that we could never have imagined.

[frankbmd]

The concept of a 100 year old card looking near perfect is difficult for many of us to grasp. I saw the PSA 8 Wagner on display in Beverly Hills before the Sotheby’s auction where it was purchased by Gretzky and McNall. It indeed looked near perfect, but there was a problem with the card that was not disclosed at that time. Near perfect is not synonymous with untampered with and authentic. The genesis of the Registry began with the grading of that card.

If I had millions to invest (and I do not), and despite my love of the game of baseball, I honestly doubt that investing in near perfect 100 year old baseball cards would be my cup of tea. Call me crazy. That’s fine with me.

[barrysloate]

Okay, you're crazy.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Thanks David, and I understand that you collect the way that makes you happy. I think the registry has caused prices on high end cards to increase so drastically that there are only a small number of people who can even compete for them. I collect VG-Ex to Ex not because I like to see flaws on cards, but because high grade cards are out of my range.

When I saw the 1932 U.S. Caramel Hornsby sell for $52,000, I was astounded. I understand chasing after a Wagner or a Plank or a 52 Mantle, because those are iconic cards and there are countless collectors who would like to own them. But in my 37 years in the hobby, nearly 30 of them as a full time dealer, I never once had a collector come to me looking for a U.S. Caramel Hornsby. That's an esoteric set, and while Hornsby was a great player, his cards are not as popular as Cobb or Matty or Wajo. That price was almost surely a product of two registry collectors going head to head until one of them blinked.

So yes, as you said the hobby has changed and many of us are scratching our heads and watching prices reach levels that we could never have imagined.

I just looked at the Pop report and there is one with none higher. I use term the best and someone will say it is not the best but only PSA says it is the best but regardless the new owner can say they own the best example that exists. The price reflects that.

One of the comparisons I have drawn in the past is cards can be viewed as art. In a case like this while $52,800 may seem like a ton of money for a single card there are pieces of art that go into the hundreds of millions. Many pieces that are not exactly ones that most even find appealing looking.

Trading cards are relics of history and so in reality as you are aware all it takes is two people with a lot of dough that want to own something and the sky is the limit.

Quite frankly when I see what some modern cards sell for it is easier for me to understand this price than some of those. I think a huge percentage of card prices are bragging rights. Getting to say you own something very few can. There really is no utility that cards provide and they are simply objects to admire. With there being small differences in cards that grade in this range the one thing you can revert back to is the idea that it is the finest known copy and so to someone that is worth a lot. It is a balancing act for me at times paying high prices just for condition rarity and in reality it comes back to the ability to replace it in that grade and the fact that I want to have the #1 set. Only one person from each set can say they do and this does fuel prices no doubt.

When I used to show people my wrestling cards they would laugh. I would say laugh all you want this is the only PSA 10 so far that exists. Are you serious??? Yeah. OMG that is really cool. This is just how humans are.

[Peter_Spaeth]

On the subject of modern cards, there are some amazing threads on Blowout about altered high end cards that get past PSA and Beckett. Scary stuff.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

On the subject of modern cards, there are some amazing threads on Blowout about altered high end cards that get past PSA and Beckett. Scary stuff.

I have seen those and it is eye opening. The modern market is less registry driven and more owning stock in a current player.

Look what happened with Tom Brady cards and Tiger Woods cards. You can literally own something that if they perform it can perform just like a share of stock. That is pretty exciting in reality.

[frankbmd]

Spot on about bragging rights and the Registry.

Fortunately I am just fine with my paltry 6 figure collection. I never brag and rarely mention my collection to friends, who are uniformly disinterested. I’m sure some of them think I’m crazy as well, but they are kind enough to keep it to themselves. And I do enjoy the hobby.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Spot on about bragging rights and the Registry.

Fortunately I am just fine with my paltry 6 figure collection. I never brag and rarely mention my collection to friends, who are uniformly disinterested. I’m sure some of them think I’m crazy as well, but they are kind enough to keep it to themselves. And I do enjoy the hobby.

There are much worse things you can do with money. I started pouring money into cards after getting hit pretty good trading options in 2008. I wanted something that regardless of the direction of the value I still had something vs. an option contract that just went up in smoke.

You have to have some cards that have performed quite well and I have found that when people here about the increases that have occurred they don't think the idea of paying for a piece of cardboard is that silly anymore.

I love telling people about what has occurred in the high end baseball card market. I don't own any of it but to me it is awesome that you can buy something that is tangible and it can perform in a similar manner to stocks. I think it is really cool.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I have seen those and it is eye opening. The modern market is less registry driven and more owning stock in a current player.

Look what happened with Tom Brady cards and Tiger Woods cards. You can literally own something that if they perform it can perform just like a share of stock. That is pretty exciting in reality.

My smartest move ever was buying about 100 Tiger Woods rookie sets at $9 just before he (and they) took off. LOL I sold them for as much as $400 it was insane. My dumbest move ever was not buying the other 400 sets I was offered at the same price.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My smartest move ever was buying about 100 Tiger Woods rookie sets at $9 just before he (and they) took off. LOL I sold them for as much as $400 it was insane. My dumbest move ever was not buying the other 400 sets I was offered at the same price.

Congratulations!

That must have been incredibly fun as it was unfolding.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Congratulations!

That must have been incredibly fun as it was unfolding.

I was dumbfounded what people were paying; the thing was the Tigers that came out of the sealed inner pack (he was on the bottom) usually had some corner wear so it wasn't like you could buy a set and be assured of a 9 or 10, not even close. But pay they did. To put it in perspective after his recent win they rebounded from worthless to the low 100s.