Gem Gehrig @ Heritage

[Bliggity]

1934 Goudey SGC 98 Gehrig

Yowzer, what a card. I feel like I need to put on sunglasses to look at it. Any guesses where it tops out? Looks like it sold for $125k back in 2013. It's at $65k now with BP, with a week left.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

1934 Goudey SGC 98 Gehrig

Yowzer, what a card. I feel like I need to put on sunglasses to look at it. Any guesses where it tops out? Looks like it sold for $125k back in 2013. It's at $65k now with BP, with a week left.

Bliggity, can you explain to me what this means? I am confused on the increased price W/Buyers Premium? If the card sold, or if you purchased/won it for $55,000, is the $65,725.00 the total price that card will cost you in the end?

CURRENT BID:$55,000
w/ Buyer's Premium (BP) : $65,725.00
Status: Reserve (If Any) Will post on 02/13/2016 7pm CT
Heritage Live Enabled

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by irv

Bliggity, can you explain to me what this means? I am confused on the increased price W/Buyers Premium? If the card sold, or if you purchased/won it for $55,000, is the $65,725.00 the total price that card will cost you in the end?

CURRENT BID:$55,000
w/ Buyer's Premium (BP) : $65,725.00
Status: Reserve (If Any) Will post on 02/13/2016 7pm CT
Heritage Live Enabled

That's right. Heritage has a 19.5% buyer's premium that gets added to the winning bid. So, if you bid $55,000, you are actually agreeing to pay $55,000 x 1.195, or $65,725. Most auction houses have a buyer's premium of somewhere between 15-20%.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by irv

Bliggity, can you explain to me what this means? I am confused on the increased price W/Buyers Premium? If the card sold, or if you purchased/won it for $55,000, is the $65,725.00 the total price that card will cost you in the end?

CURRENT BID:$55,000
w/ Buyer's Premium (BP) : $65,725.00
Status: Reserve (If Any) Will post on 02/13/2016 7pm CT
Heritage Live Enabled

Not Bliggity, but yes is the answer to your question. All action houses charge a buyer's premium on top of the price. With most auction houses, the BP is around 18-20 percent, though some of the smaller auction houses have 12-15 percent BPs.

If you are buying a card through an auction house, you have to keep the BP in mind when deciding how much you are comfortable bidding.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by irv

Bliggity, can you explain to me what this means? I am confused on the increased price W/Buyers Premium? If the card sold, or if you purchased/won it for $55,000, is the $65,725.00 the total price that card will cost you in the end?

No, add shipping to that.

[pawpawdiv9]

Comparisons sake

and this recent purchase by board member Snapolit1 from LOTG for 7k+BP

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

1934 Goudey SGC 98 Gehrig

Yowzer, what a card. I feel like I need to put on sunglasses to look at it. Any guesses where it tops out? Looks like it sold for $125k back in 2013. It's at $65k now with BP, with a week left.

That looks trimmed by a hair or two.. IMO

Lovely colors tho!

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by sporteq

That looks trimmed by a hair or two.. IMO

Lovely colors tho!

Thanks to Mastros comment on high grade pre-war cards, that's the first thing that pops in my mind when I see cards like this. I'm likely not wrong.

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Thanks to Mastros comment on high grade pre-war cards, that's the first thing that pops in my mind when I see cards like this. I'm likely not wrong.

look at the borders on these PSA VG 3. Guess will never know.

[hammer]

The older the cards get the shorter the borders become.

[botn]

Originally Posted by hammer

The older the cards get the shorter the borders become.

Clearly the higher the grade the smaller the card gets. See it over and over.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

That's right. Heritage has a 19.5% buyer's premium that gets added to the winning bid. So, if you bid $55,000, you are actually agreeing to pay $55,000 x 1.195, or $65,725. Most auction houses have a buyer's premium of somewhere between 15-20%.

Originally Posted by Bored5000

Not Bliggity, but yes is the answer to your question. All action houses charge a buyer's premium on top of the price. With most auction houses, the BP is around 18-20 percent, though some of the smaller auction houses have 12-15 percent BPs.

If you are buying a card through an auction house, you have to keep the BP in mind when deciding how much you are comfortable bidding.

Thanks guys.

I knew there were fees, but had no idea they were that much.

So in reality, if you paid the $65,000 total, all fees in and wanted to or had to sell the card in a month or two, would you list/reserve it for the $65,000 you paid or the $55,000 that it is actually worth? (Rounding numbers only)

Also, if it gets listed in VCP, is the $55,000 price the one that gets entered or the $65,000, total cost amount?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by irv

Thanks guys.

I knew there were fees, but had no idea they were that much.

So in reality, if you paid the $65,000 total, all fees in and wanted to or had to sell the card in a month or two, would you list/reserve it for the $65,000 you paid or the $55,000 that it is actually worth? (Rounding numbers only)

Also, if it gets listed in VCP, is the $55,000 price the one that gets entered or the $65,000, total cost amount?

VCP lists the total price including BP, 65k in your example. If you had to sell the card in a month or two you would most likely take a loss, unless you could sell it privately for what you paid. Even then unless the card went up you'd most likely be out at least half the buyer's premium.

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by irv

Thanks guys.

I knew there were fees, but had no idea they were that much.

So in reality, if you paid the $65,000 total, all fees in and wanted to or had to sell the card in a month or two, would you list/reserve it for the $65,000 you paid or the $55,000 that it is actually worth? (Rounding numbers only)

Also, if it gets listed in VCP, is the $55,000 price the one that gets entered or the $65,000, total cost amount?

You would list the card for $65k because that's what it's "actually worth." Bidders will take the premium into account when bidding. Therefore, if a bidder believes the card is "actually worth" $X, then the bidder will only bid 80% of $X, knowing that the total amount will add up to what the real value is. So for example, if a certain T206 usually sells for $500 on eBay, you would expect the high bid at an auction house for the same card to be about $400 (depending on the specific percentage of the buyer's premium).

VCP records the full cost, including the buyer's premium.

ETA: Jesse is correct that you'd probably take a loss on a quick sell for a couple reasons. If you were the high bidder at auction, that means the next highest person in line to buy the card when you sell probably isn't willing to pay as much as you, or else they would have won it the first time. Also, although bidders "should" take the BP into account when bidding, it's easy to get brainwashed by the lower number that appears on the bid screen, and end up bidding higher than you should. This has been discussed ad nauseum before, and is a foolish thing to do, but is human nature I suppose.

[ValKehl]

Dan, to be a nitpicker, in the example you gave, the expected high bid at an auction house with a 20% BP would be $416.67 (rather than $400.00). This figure is determined by dividing $500.00 by 120% (i.e., 1.20).
Val

[Bliggity]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Dan, to be a nitpicker, in the example you gave, the expected high bid at an auction house with a 20% BP would be $416.67 (rather than $400.00). This figure is determined by dividing $500.00 by 120% (i.e., 1.20).
Val

Hence my statement, "about $400"

[irv]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

VCP lists the total price including BP, 65k in your example. If you had to sell the card in a month or two you would most likely take a loss, unless you could sell it privately for what you paid. Even then unless the card went up you'd most likely be out at least half the buyer's premium.

Originally Posted by Bliggity

You would list the card for $65k because that's what it's "actually worth." Bidders will take the premium into account when bidding. Therefore, if a bidder believes the card is "actually worth" $X, then the bidder will only bid 80% of $X, knowing that the total amount will add up to what the real value is. So for example, if a certain T206 usually sells for $500 on eBay, you would expect the high bid at an auction house for the same card to be about $400 (depending on the specific percentage of the buyer's premium).

VCP records the full cost, including the buyer's premium.

ETA: Jesse is correct that you'd probably take a loss on a quick sell for a couple reasons. If you were the high bidder at auction, that means the next highest person in line to buy the card when you sell probably isn't willing to pay as much as you, or else they would have won it the first time. Also, although bidders "should" take the BP into account when bidding, it's easy to get brainwashed by the lower number that appears on the bid screen, and end up bidding higher than you should. This has been discussed ad nauseum before, and is a foolish thing to do, but is human nature I suppose.

Thanks guys.

That's some interesting, good to know information!

I appreciate it.

[Bliggity]

$167,300.

30% over last sale in 2013. Not a bad ROI.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Bliggity

$167,300.

30% over last sale in 2013. Not a bad ROI.

Nope. Wrong, wrong, wrong. That's how people get suckered into thinking cards are always a good investment.

Sale on 8-11-13 was for $125,332. Sale on 2-20-16 was $167,300, but it was $140,000 before buyer's premium. The $140,000 is what the seller received.

$140,000 - $125,332 = $14,668. ROI of 11.7%

For comparison, NASDAQ on 8-11-13 was 3,660. On 2-20-16 was 4,504. ROI there during same period was 23.1%.

[Mikehealer]

Eric, I would think the consignor got a piece of the premium on a card like that.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by hammer

The older the cards get the shorter the borders become.

or the higher the grade .....

[53Browns]

So gorgeous looks like a reprint. But I agree it looks like it's had a trim job. IMHO, people who alter cards should reside in Dante's 8th circle of hell (reserved for the fraudsters)......

[CMIZ5290]

I may be wrong, but I think this is the third or fourth time this card has come up for sale at major auctions in the last few years. That seems kind of odd to me....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I may be wrong, but I think this is the third or fourth time this card has come up for sale at major auctions in the last few years. That seems kind of odd to me....

At least then it has stayed the same size.

[Scocs]

But that's a recent SGC flip. You don't think they took proper measurements to ensure that it was not trimmed or altered?

[Scocs]

My apologies...it's a more recent flip, but not the newest SGC flips. Still....

[conor912]

I wouldn't want that card if it was free. It reeks of malice.

[Scocs]

Forgive my ignorance, but can't anyone just measure that card with a ruler?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Scocs

Forgive my ignorance, but can't anyone just measure that card with a ruler?

There can be a small variance in size to these older cards. Printing and cutting techniques were not quite what they are now. I have a few Goudeys where there is a minor difference to width or height, and I know from an examination of the card grain/edges under a loupe that no trimming has occurred.

Have a look at this, detecting alterations in Goudey cards. Apparently, somebody at SGC could use a refresher course on this very thing. The borders are way too small, and I'm shocked that it was slabbed with this grade. Too bad, as that's my second favorite pre-war card behind the T206 Johnson port. But I would never put it in my collection, even if I could afford it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

There can be a small variance in size to these older cards. Printing and cutting techniques were not quite what they are now. I have a few Goudeys where there is a minor difference to width or height, and I know from an examination of the card grain/edges under a loupe that no trimming has occurred.

Have a look at this, detecting alterations in Goudey cards. Apparently, somebody at SGC could use a refresher course on this very thing. The borders are way too small, and I'm shocked that it was slabbed with this grade. Too bad, as that's my second favorite pre-war card behind the T206 Johnson port. But I would never put it in my collection, even if I could afford it.

Last time this card was discussed it doesn't seem that you, or other people, thought it was short, or trimmed.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=173343

And yes it's the same card.
http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-25655.aspx

[Scocs]

I try not to be too idealistic, but at the same time I try not to be too cynical either.

Look, this 1934 Goudey Gehrig looks nicer than half the cards you pull out of a brand new minty fresh 2015 pack. That is almost inconceivable.

Maybe that is why this card is so special. One of a kind.

Still, if the borders on the card had been initially "generous" and someone (owner) trimmed all the edges with an X-acto knife, wouldn't it be relatively easy to determine this by SGC? The card was most likely graded within the past five years, correct -- not during the first few years of the company's existence. They had that kind of oversight on a card of this magnitude if it is indeed trimmed?!

Are we then to believe that this is a repeat of the infamous Mastro/PSA collusion with the NM-MT T206 Wagner? SGC and owner conspiring to alter card and grade it as gem mint?

Does anyone really know the story behind this card? Did it come from a Goudey find much like the Black Swamp find that gave us mint condition cards from 1910?