Assembling T206 sets....my advice....what's yours ?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I have recently received several emails asking me how I am able to put T206 sets together so easily.....

Now this is not meant to be a "dig" at all you collectors of Graded cards (there is too many of you and I do not
want to antagonize you)....but, it is very impractical to put together any T206 set if you are limiting yourself to
acquiring only Graded cards, one or two, or at most.... a dozen at a time.

First, it gets very costly, and in this present "impatient environment", if one hasn't attained 500+ cards within a
year (or less), most will give up and sell or trade off their cards.

It's no big secret....I've been successful by buying large collections of T206's. Private ones with up to 400+ cards.
But also, quite a number from ebay. About a year ago, I won a 240 card lot from ebay. It was there for all to bid
on.....but, to my pleasant surprise, I only had to contend with 4 other bidders. It's really unbelievable that only 5
of us were interested in this large collection. Every card was scanned, and many appeared Vg-Ex to Ex cards.

But, of course they were UN-GRADED........

and, I'm sure that's why many would-be bidders avoided this fantastic ebay lot. And, there are always large lots
in the popular Mail Auctions. Most of those result in some real bargains. One that I won recently, had 300+ t206's
and I paid an average of only $25/card. It included a Green Cobb, both Johnson's, and many HOFers in it....hey guys,
it doesn't get much better than this.

Many of the cards that I didn't need for my collection from these large lots, I was able to get Graded as "4's, 5's,
and even "6's".

TED Z collection

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Posted By: Joe D.

I tend to ignore the large lot auctions.

I guess I shouldn't!

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Posted By: T206Collector

Every T206 card in my 520 is SGC graded. At least half were bought raw. In order to get to "complete" in a timely fashion it was necessary for me to purchase large lots of raw cards, too -- most circa 2002, for $10 or less per card. Though most of these were beaters, there was the occasional SGC 60 or 70.

Most of us would love to get a 300 count lot of T206 cards at $25/card, including Cobbs and Johnsons, but most of us don't have $7,500+ to burn. Indeed, many of those with $7,500 to burn, would rather go after a pristine card or two. So, really it comes down to budget and time.

The more money you have the faster you can put it together. Buying graded cards will usually cost you more money, but it will save you time and effort, since the ability to track down an accurately graded T206 is much easier to do on-line with the help of a respected 3rd party grader.

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Posted By: anthony

cashflow and big budget is a big part of collecting like your 300+ card lot...at $25 average, thats still $7500+ not everyone can just drop that on any given day, or within a 10 day auction

i think there are a lot of us that cannot afford to spend more than a few hundred a week or even a month for that matter.

i stopped at 125ish and sold off the collection like you mentioned because it was going to cost me too much, unless i spent a couple years doing it...now i have just the 36 hof cards in lower grade that still took close to 6 months to complete


edited to add that t206collector and i must of been tying at the same time

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I'm building a graded T205 set, and I agree - if I were waiting for graded copies, it would take me forever to do. Instead I'm buying mid-sized lots (10-30 cards, mostly) and selling off my dupes, keeping the nicest ones and having them graded. I'm about 40% of the way done, pacing myself slowly.

-Al

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Do not misconstrue me......7500+ is a lot for me, too. As, we are helping our Daughter, put our Grandson
thru College.

However, when oppurtunities, like the ones I've described, present themselves, you have to try for them.
And, there are many clever financial ways of affording such purchases.

I just gave a couple of examples of larger lots. I've seen 50 to 100 card lots on ebay, that are more af-
fordable, that have very few bidders. I just don't understand these.

TED Z

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Posted By: barrysloate

Group of 300 with a Green Cobb and two Johnsons..sounds awfully familiar!

And were you hiding the upper left corner in that scan of the Drum back? I have a good memory

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Posted By: MVSNYC

thanks Ted- pretty much what i thought...when i started collecting T206 in the early 90's, i was doing the same thing, buying raw low-mid grade cards...i got up to about 200+ and then decided to switch gears and focus on graded cards...i wish i still had the 200+ cards, would be a good starter set...oh well, looks like i will have to keep an eye out for those large raw lots now...

best-
MS

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Your comment
"....but most of us don't have $7,500+ to burn."

I see guys on this board spending that amount on one card !

TED Z

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ted $7500 gets you one T206 common is PSA 8 with a very low pop!

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Posted By: Jason L

That is exactly right...
I admire and envy Ted's patience, method, and financial capabilities!! And I think much of what he said makes great sense.

BUT, I know myself, and I do not have:
-a huge amount of patience,
-very much money,
-too much experience at spotting fakes,
-very much interest in a large chunk of the T206 set,

So when I combined all those factors together I came up with my strategy:
-Collect by team (Cubs first!)
-SGC50 or below
-One at a time
working so far...I have 10 out of the 36 or so Cubbies...after 5 months

Ted, if I may ask, aside from your long experience in working with the set, what keys do you look for on EBAY to make sure you are not buying a lot that contains fakes? I wouldn't know how to tell from a scan or two alone...

thanks,
Jason L

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

I actually did this for my '57 Topps set. You need to look at the set historically instead of financially. By this I mean which cards have gone up in value the most in the past and buy those first.

It's a physics term as well as a financial term. Rate of appreciation.

Since everybody that's in the T206 set is long gone. You have to assume the cards that went up most in the past will continue to be the ones that go up the most in the future.

So logically, if you are serious about completing a set you go after the big ticket items now, because you might not be able to afford them down the road.

That common that is going for a mere $100 bucks you know that's not going up soon. But the Big 4 you have to go after them now if your serious about completing the set.

Peter

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Posted By: Bob

Happier to have a complete set minus the Big 4 in vg-ex to ex condition, all raw, than a couple of PSA 9s and a handful of PSA 8s. It will never make the registry but a nice, creaseless T206 set is sure nice to look at and own.

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Posted By: T206Collector

<<Your comment
"....but most of us don't have $7,500+ to burn."

I see guys on this board spending that amount on one card !>>

That's my point -- as I said in the sentence after the one you quoted. If people have $7,500 to burn, most would prefer to spend that amount on one card.

The people that want the $15 Fair/Good commons and PSA 2 HOFers do not have the kind of change to blow $7,500 on a lot of cards in that condition. The main reason they are collecting cards in that condition in the first place is because of cost issues.

Thus, by selling those cards in a lot like that, you are cutting out a huge amount of your market and catering really to the card dealers that can spend $7,500 in order to flip them in 300 single lots after getting the choicest examples graded.

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

My advice:

Be very cautious of blank sides and printing errors.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Addressing your last "Q".....
I try to know as much as I can about the seller. Besides his ebay FDBK profile, I scan all his
recent "buys and sells" that are listed in that profile. And, if it's a big $$$$ purchase, I email
the seller and get as much info. as possible to determine if I'm dealing with a legit collection.

The easier way of course, to feel comfortable with what you are buying, is to deal with a seller
that you know and have a long track record with.

Finally, after buying and trading BB cards for 30 years, one has a certain expertise that enables
them to distinguish the real from the fake stuff very easy.

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I do not want to get into an argument with you.....but, the main theme of my initial post here
is two undeniable facts.....

You can get a lot more "bang for your bucks" by buying in large quantities.

And, you can get a lot more for your $$$$'s by buying un-graded cards.

And, if you want to get them graded or leave them "free" is every collector's own prerogative.
I am tired of being told by the "inflexible" graded guys....who have never seen my collection
up close....how "problematic" it is.

TED Z

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Posted By: robert a

My advice is to team up with a buddy and buy a bunch of em.

Rob

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Ted's strategy is sound. It just takes money. Buy, keep the ones you're after, sell the rest. Buy more...

That sounds better than buying a slabbed card or two at a time.

Robert A's idea of teaming up makes sense. Good sense.

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

All I can say is that if I dropped $7,500 on a bunch of cards, my wife would string me up by my you-know-whats.

I have, however, used Ted's strategy on a smaller scale, twice through the B/S/T. And I sold off my duplicates to recoup some of the cost.
I may have exaggerated just a bit when I told my wife how much I recouped.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I may have exaggerated just a bit when I told my wife how much I recouped.

I think this is called the 11th commandment.

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Posted By: Alan

I'm not sure I like the direction that this thread is going. Let's lock this one before it gets ugly !!!

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Posted By: Jason L

the 11th Commandment, or the 1.5th Amendment to the Consitution....I forget

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Posted By: Dan Koochin

I'm collecting T206 exactly the way Ted has in his opening collage,
I'm content to attack it by rare back varieties. Its been ages seen I've
done a full set attempt, maybe 200+ cards in the mid-80s, primarily assembled
from lots.

(I think) I understand where Ted is coming from, I put together a lot of my T206
rare backs while SGC was still in diapers, theres nothing wrong with raw cards,
and they can be excellent value today.

regards
ty_cobb

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Posted By: Ray Piskadlo

I started collecting the T206 in August of 2003. I set a goal for myself of 50 cards a year, with the intent of finishing in ten years. So far, so good. I am less than 4 years into the quest and have 212 cards now. This includes 15 SL, two Cobbs, all three Mattys, a Cy Young, and a Walter Johnson. I also have a 5 AB, 1 Hindu, 1 Piedmont 42 NC, 1 Lenox, 1 Carolina Brights, and 2 Broad Leaf backs. I document each purchase/trade... so far, after 212 cards, I've spent $3,430. This comes to an average of $16.17 per card or just $80 a month! While most of my cards are between good-poor, it can be done. I haven't been swayed yet.

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Posted By: RC

Ray,

I like your plan of attack. Makes sense and is financially sound.
Good luck with the hunt.

RC

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Ray, that sounds like a fine approach.

I recall figuring out how old I'd be when I finished, if I kept up my pace...


Once I got to about 400 I started penciling in the # and date of acquisition. Wish I'd started that sooner. Some folks track the price... I didn't. It's about the cards and who they depict.

I think Ted's big lot approach is sound. Maybe you could find another T206 collector and team up on a lot.

Hang in there with them!

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Posted By: James Feagin

Realize that it takes money, a constant ignoring of the legions of other sets out there, and the satisfaction of knowing the best you can ever do is a near set. If you're fine with that, then go for it.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Guys, coming up with 1000's of $$ for a large lot purchase need not be as difficult as some are saying.
My easiest way of affording large purchases are by either of two methods.....

Flexible Home Equity Loan

Visa card

And sure, for a while I am in debt....but, that's the beauty about acquiring large lots, you can recover
a good portion of your initial outlay by selling off the duplicate cards. And, with that money you simply
pay-down your debt. It's not "rocket science" that I'm talking about.

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Deleted

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Posted By: T206Collector

I agree with your "undeniable facts" that you can "get a lot more 'bang for your bucks' by buying in large quantities" and "you can get a lot more for your $$$$'s by buying un-graded cards."

You'll get little argument on these points.

But you posed those facts while (a) taking a swing at graded card collectors; and (b) suggesting we take out home loans/credit card debt to fund larger purchases.

You're likely to encounter more argument on these.

If you go the way of incurring debt, then it is very important to be not only disciplined in your resale pursuits, but also that you have accurately gauged the resale value of what you're buying. What you are prescribing is not without its risks.

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Posted By: Dave

While I would love to purchase a mass quantity of T206's in one lump sum..the thought of trying to lay a couple thousand dollars down on a credit card would only cause fireworks in my house. It wouldn't help matter if I told the wife "I can make up some of the money by selling off dupes". The day I start putting card purchases on my VISA is the day my wife also starts putting purchases on my VISA. So...I'll have to plug along a couple cards at a time I guess.

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Posted By: Dylan

Buying in bulk is always a wonderful asset to use IF you can afford it. There's a reason why bulk lots sell for less then break up value. Because not everyone can afford to drop five grand at once. Where as many can afford to drop 100 dollars on that PSA 5 T206 common. I'm a type card collector and I look for deals where i can find them. I buy both raw and graded, and probably own a little more raw then i do graded cards. If I were to go after a T206 (or any large set), id try and save up to purchase one big lot, maybe two, get a jump start, and focus would be on raw cards. As always, for those that can afford to drop large sums at once there's deals to be found.

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Posted By: Dave

I would also venture as far to say that when you were 30 years old and had a wife and small children you probably weren't putting thousands of dollars on credit cards for T206's. Were you? Obviously later down the line when kids are grown and work career brings in more revenue that is the more appropriate time to drop such a large sum on cards.

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Posted By: James Feagin

And while baseball cards might be a fun little diversion, most younger collectors with growing families probably but more priority on financial security, rather than spending thousands of tobacco cards hoping to pay it back.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1st....I stated at the start, that I was not taking a "swipe" at collectors of Graded cards. Anyhow, you,
and others, seem to agree that Non-Graded cards are more affordable in this current environment than
Graded cards. So, I was simply just stating a veritable fact; therefore, I don't understand your comment ?

2nd....You imply that I am telling collectors that they should go into debt....and that is utterly absurd.
Please re-read my last post.....I responded that this is the way I operate and I did not imply that others
should follow my methods. I'm far from the "big bucks" that I hear about some members on this forum pay
for a single Graded card. However, if I come across a "large lot" deal of any type of BB cards, I do some
quick math to see if I can recover most of what I am willing to pay for it. Then, I figure which resource
I should access to raise the $$$$'s.

I do have a several factors going for me....1st a very supportive wife who has her collectible hobbies. An
account and a credit card set a side for just these type of BB card hobby oppurtunities. And, being much
older than most, here....I no longer have the resposibility of a young family.

TED Z

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Posted By: James Feagin

"I responded that this is the way I operate and I did not imply that others should follow my methods."

Then my the title of the thread?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

When I was 30....with a wife and one daughter at the time I was not collecting BB cards.
When my two daughters were older in 1977, they renewed my interest in BB cards; and,
that is when I was fortunate enough to discover my original BB card collection from my
youth....in the attic of my parent's house.

TED Z

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Posted By: MVSNYC

seems that Ted is getting a little heat here...i think he was simply making some suggestions on how to start building a T206 set, because many collecting (including myself) have asked him how he is able to put these sets together quickly and for a reasonable price...

also looks like he is being frowned upon for putting items on a credit card, i have done it several times, as i sure many of you have...when done right, you can sell/flip cards and actually come out the other end ahead...

Ted is a well respected person in the hobby with great knowledge, so i think he commands a little more respect then he seems to be getting right now.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I always assumed that Ted put his sets together with a big assist to his setting up at card shows. That would be interesting to hear about. Telling us to buy raw bulk is helpful, but what are the tricks of the trade?

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Posted By: Dave

Michael,
I wasn't trying to throw any heat at Ted. Quite the contrary. I'd love to have the means to buy in bulk the way Ted does...maybe one day, maybe not. I'm just personally not interested in putting any card purchases on my own credit card..to each thier own. My credit cards are pretty much for emergencies and family vacations and such..in which they get paid off the same month.

I've actually attempted quite a few times on the B/S/T to purchase raw cards...asking for a lot of 20-25, but have never had anybody looking to unload any.

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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

If you can't buy in bulk, then bluff. Here's what I do, I walk up to the dealer like I'm a big spender and have been in the hobby forever. Give them the impression your going to be in the hobby through thick and thin and that there are dealers that you always go back to. Then when you actually make an offer go for the jugular and hope that they bite. If they think you really will come back, they may lower the price a bit for you. Hint that the only reason your making such a low offer is that you have a short term cash flow problem.

If that doesn't work, I cry.

Peter

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Posted By: Dave

Peter

You'll have to let me know the next time you plan on using this tactic. I'd like to be there. Always wanted to see a lawyer cry..lol

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Posted By: MVSNYC

dave- i wasn't singling you out, it was the vibe the thread was starting to give off, that several people were a little critical of his suggestions...

nothing personally directed towards you.

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Posted By: Steve

From where I sit Ted was simply telling people how he has been able to accumalate enough cards to build a few sets. No where did he ridicule anyone or other's methods.

I do the same thing with some later sets. I buy lots and search for the best ones for my set and the rest I'll move on ebay for other people trying to do the samething.

JMO

Steve

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You apparently can read things very objectively. You clearly understood my initial advice in this Thread.
Others have misunderstood what I was trying to impart; and, I'm sorry about that.

I think this misunderstanding started with the "7500" number that was bantered about by some, since I
mentioned a recent purchase I made of over 300 cards that averaged out to $25/card. And, one poster
jumped to the conclusion that I went into debt for "7500".

I don't want to single out anyone, but what they did not know was that I was able to finance most of
that purchase with cards I sold from a prior large lot purchase.

Steve you get it....once you get into this game of "large lot" acquistions, before you realize it, it provides
one an inventory that is a self-supporting source for future purchases.

A collector has to start at whatever $-figure he is comfortable with. Perhaps, a lot of 50 cards that cost
no more than $1000. If he does his homework, he keeps certain cards, sells others to recover his outlay....
or even to gain a profit.

Again, for those of you who misconstrued what I was trying to impart....I am sorry that happened. But, if
you go back and re-read my posts....I was not the one who said that you should go into "7500 debt" (or
whatever).

I learned my lesson guys....I will never again post any responses to members' inquiries regarding how I am
able to finance my T206 sets (or any other BB card sets).

TED Z

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
Thanks for continuing to steer the board in the right direction. If I didn't feel like crap, I would happily join you. Be well Brian

PS Ted is only trying to help other collectors. For those who took his post wrong, check his history, and his willingness to share info. Ted is a good egg, period....

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

I hope all of the T206 collectors with large collections continue to post about how they have gone about accumulating their treasures. I have learned a lot on this board in a very short time, especially from guys like T-Rex Ted and I hope he (and you others) continue to share your observations and experiences.

As I have recently decided to go for the Monster (less the big 4), how to do it economically is high on my list of thinsg to learn more about. Please keep the posts coming!