T206 Honus Wagner Authentic Restored

[mrreality68]

I saw this on Instagram that Mile High has a T206 Honus Wagner Sweet Caporal Back PSA Authentic (Restored) for auction in August

It previously sold on SCP Auctions on 10/31/2021 for $1,102,806

Your thoughts on "RESTORED"?

Your thoughts on what it will fetch this time around?

[Vintagedeputy]

“Restored” is a slippery slope.

Is this the one that was missing a hunk?

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

“Restored” is a slippery slope.

Is this the one that was missing a hunk?

No this was not that one. This was restored I believe the colors and imperfections on it was fixed up professionally years ago.

I would have to see if someone has an article or something on its history

[Michael B]

You can see the creases on the top of the card that were "recolored". Two run from his head to the top of the card. There are also two in the upper right corner running from the top to the right side.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Your thoughts on "RESTORED"?

I'd stay away from "restored" for my collection but I'm sure someone will be happy to have it.

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Your thoughts on what it will fetch this time around?

2 million +

[stutor]

I think this is it…

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by stutor

I think this is it…

That's the card Sonny,
the border trimming was left intact.

[Exhibitman]

As long as it is disclosed, it's fine. My guess is $1.5 million +

[FrankWakefield]

+1 for what Adam said.

[rand1com]

If I had $1.5 - 2 million in my petty cash drawer, I would rather have the restored nicer looking card over the authentic ugly one.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by rand1com

If I had $1.5 - 2 million in my petty cash drawer, I would rather have the restored nicer looking card over the authentic ugly one.

I agree

[robertsmithnocure]

I have no problem with restoration either, especially when it is done well. It would like the the auction companies to show the “before” pictures alongside the “after” pictures in their catalogs.

[3-2-count]

Wagners restored face is too rough for my liking.

Just isn’t appealing to me.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rand1com

If I had $1.5 - 2 million in my petty cash drawer, I would rather have the restored nicer looking card over the authentic ugly one.

Me too and it isn't even close.

[Republicaninmass]

Nothing wrong with an extreme rarity restored

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Wagners restored face is too rough for my liking.

Just isn’t appealing to me.

It looks like they messed up the nose. It is not Honus Wagner, but Honus, don't call me Jimmy, Durante!

[Hirbonzig]

My choice would be the original with warts and all, not Wagner version 2.0

[jayshum]

I'm fine with restoration as long as it's disclosed about the card. However, what happens if someone cracks this out and then resubmits it? There's no guarantee the restored indication is still there on the new flip. In this case, there are few enough Wagners that it may be easy to figure it out just by looking for previous pictures, but for other restored cards, that may not be the case.

[mrreality68]

I am not high on restorations of cards as I feel it is a form of altering the cards. I like them as is.

With that said I understand it and we often see artwork, instruments, and other pieces restored to their original form.

And they often look amazing when it is done and done run. Although I think this restoration was not as good as it could have been.

and it is disclosed as restored so their is transparency so the bidders can chose if they want it or not.

With that said I would be happy to have that card in either condition. but if I had the choice I would pick the original condition.

From an investment point of view alot of the newer money in the hobby and not necessarily true collectors would picked the restored piece

I am estimating $1.7 million

[Seven]

How did they even restore this card? Did someone make a documented process of the restoration?

[nwobhm]

When did PSA start notating restored? Why isn’t it a qualifier?

[Section103]

Its amazing what money will do. If this is restored, every card altered in a similar way is restored. If independent grading companies are blatantly giving preference to certain cards/customers, then they are far more worthless than even their most ardent critics could suggest.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by rand1com

If I had $1.5 - 2 million in my petty cash drawer, I would rather have the restored nicer looking card over the authentic ugly one.

Agreeing with this 100%

I also have no issue in the world with restoring it as long as it's clearly labeled. I really like how they used that designation vs just authentic altered. It's a better descriptor for the actual vast depth of alteration done.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Section103

Its amazing what money will do. If this is restored, every card altered in a similar way is restored. If independent grading companies are blatantly giving preference to certain cards/customers, then they are far more worthless than even their most ardent critics could suggest.

I think restored is a better description if you think of it logically as a consumer for this card. It should not be seen as a more generous grade over authentic or authentic altered.

Restored by definition means that the entire card has been changed, which it has. An auth or auth altered does not describe the full breadth of change. It could in that grade make someone think it just had a press or little recolor. A restoration explains that this has had almost everything done.

[parkplace33]

1.5 million. And what in the world did they do to that card.

[mrreality68]

Here is a LINK to a documentation of a different restored T206 Wagner

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_106.html

This is only meant to give everyone an idea of the scope of work and to a degree how the work of restoration was done

[Seven]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Here is a LINK to a documentation of a different restored T206 Wagner

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_106.html

This is only meant to give everyone an idea of the scope of work and to a degree how the work of restoration was done

Thank you for this, very informative.

I have zero issue with a card being restored as long as it's designated as such. The line unfortunately gets blurred when restored/altered cards get the number designation.

[atx840]

Previous thread on this card - I'd prefer it in it's original form

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...agner+restored

[BeanTown]

Definitely think it looks better restored. Not for me though. In art it’s acceptable to restore and in cards it is not. Never understood that.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Definitely think it looks better restored. Not for me though. In art it’s acceptable to restore and in cards it is not. Never understood that.

If art was restored as poorly as that card was it would not be acceptable.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If art was restored as poorly as that card was it would not be acceptable.

agreed I think the restoration should have and could have been better. Just because it looks better than it was does not mean it is up to Restoration standards. and to me they fell short

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If art was restored as poorly as that card was it would not be acceptable.

reminds me of that woman who "restored" the painting of Jesus Christ. Side by side below:

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

agreed I think the restoration should have and could have been better. Just because it looks better than it was does not mean it is up to Restoration standards. and to me they fell short

Yes. I'd be happy to own a properly restored copy, but in this particular case I liked it more as a beater.

[fkm_bky]

I too would take either, but prefer the worn, untouched copy.

Bill

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Seven

reminds me of that woman who "restored" the painting of Jesus Christ. Side by side below:

I think Edward Munch did that restoration...

[Ronnie73]

Once the hobby accepts restoration on cards, watch out. Because years ago, it was accepted in the comic book industry, and now it seems like there's more restored comics than untouched comics for the rare issues. Years ago, I owned a restored and unrestored Amazing Spider-Man #1, and even though the unrestored looked like a lower grade, I liked it more than the restored comic. I eventually sold both comics and the restored comic got 4 times the price of the non restored comic. Didn't expect that. I'd rather the restoration process stays away from the baseball card hobby. Once it starts, over 95 percent of the authentic or 1 graded 1952 Topps Mantles, will be restored. Because comics are like that now. The grading companies have a different color label for restored comics, and it seems like a majority of the key comics, are no longer original.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Once the hobby accepts restoration on cards, watch out. Because years ago, it was accepted in the comic book industry, and now it seems like there's more restored comics than untouched comics for the rare issues. Years ago, I owned a restored and unrestored Amazing Spider-Man #1, and even though the unrestored looked like a lower grade, I liked it more than the restored comic. I eventually sold both comics and the restored comic got 4 times the price of the non restored comic. Didn't expect that. I'd rather the restoration process stays away from the baseball card hobby. Once it starts, over 95 percent of the authentic or 1 graded 1952 Topps Mantles, will be restored. Because comics are like that now. The grading companies have a different color label for restored comics, and it seems like a majority of the key comics, are no longer original.

Agreed ron 100 pct

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

Agreed ron 100 pct

I agree and hope it never happens.

So far I am only aware of 2 restored cards both the T206 Wagner

But with the values going up and restored seeming to add to the value/investment I could see it happening on key cards

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I agree and hope it never happens.

So far I am only aware of 2 restored cards both the T206 Wagner

But with the values going up and restored seeming to add to the value/investment I could see it happening on key cards

There are a lot more restored cards than just those two including the Just So Burkett. Many just aren't commonly known. Not to mention how much work needs to be done to consider the card restored? Would a filled pinhole be considered restored or would you only count items that require a donor card or significant inpainting?

[jayshum]

Sold for just under $2 million

http://milehighcardco.com/Exceptiona...-LOT95565.aspx

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Sold for just under $2 million

http://milehighcardco.com/Exceptiona...-LOT95565.aspx

That is an amazing price and a big jump from the last time it sold. And multiple had to bid it up to that price so it means that is the market and some are willing to accepted restored cards

Perhaps we will see more restorations in the future on special cards

[Seven]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

That is an amazing price and a big jump from the last time it sold. And multiple had to bid it up to that price so it means that is the market and some are willing to accepted restored cards

Perhaps we will see more restorations in the future on special cards

Would not surprise me in the slightest. We've already seen altered cards sell for big bucks, in most case though they're missing the designation of being altered but that's a conversation for another thread.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Seven

Would not surprise me in the slightest. We've already seen altered cards sell for big bucks, in most case though they're missing the designation of being altered but that's a conversation for another thread.

I will never mind it as long as it is labeled as restored so collectors or buyers can make informed choices based on the correct information

[Rhotchkiss]

The restored Wagner in milehigh sold for $800k+/- (70%) more than it sold for in 2021. That is pretty amazing. I think it has to do with it being a Wagner, not the acceptance of restoration.


The value of all things Wagner, especially portraits, have exploded in 2023- a rather common blue M116 sold for just under $53k last night in memory lane. An SGC 3 sold for $16.8k in April of this year and a PSA 3.5 sold for $10.2k in 2021. This is not a rare card. Look what has happened to the E90-2 and Tip Tops lately. Indeed, all Warner’s have exploded, including the e92/e101 throwing and batting, the E95, the M101-4/5. Who knows what an e103 and an e104-2 would sell for. Wagner is crazy hot. The t206 is the ultimate Wagner, it’s the ultimate card. A believe the winner of the restored Wagner wanted a t206 Wagner, come hell or high water, and they didn’t care if it was restored or pulled from the ass of a gorilla.

T206 Wagners are like NFL franchises. The one in Milehigh is like the Lions (who look great this year). They can’t all be Cowboys, 49ers, and Chiefs. The owner of the Lions still owns a football team and the owner of the restored Wagner still owns a Wagner.

[Exhibitman]

I agree with Ryan. The card is a T206 Wagner restored

Only nit I would pick is that every Wagner is on fire except the E254, the one I own.

[Jay Wolt]

Ryan Well Said!

[ricktmd]

Yes Ryan. I agree +1. All Wagners are benefitting from the press , popularity and incredible sells prices on the T206. I am not sure what that means for Wagner cabinets like W600, an M110, or T5 Pinkerton. All must be as rare as the T206 but obviously way less in demand. Still using the supply and demand curve from college Econ may be the simple answer. I have this W600. I can't seem to part with it yet...

[Rhotchkiss]

Great card Rick!! I think all cards with the Horner T206 (uniform) pose, whether facing right or left, are benefiting, whether they come on a cabinet, PC, or otherwise; many of which are pictured below. How about earlier, street clothes portrait pics (i.e., rookie cards)?

[mrreality68]

Wow all the way thru.

Some amazing Wagner Portraits.

And the prices are definitely exploding

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

And the prices are definitely exploding

Well, POW! I hope