MASStercards joins AAA?

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Posted By: Bill J. 

What's up with James selling cut-outs on EBay? I guess he couldn't resist. Anyone disappointed that he didn't submit it to AAA for grading?

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Posted By: hankron

For the record, the significant issue with AAA is not that they sell pictures cut out of books (though many do not like the destruction of the books), but that these cutouts are not described authentically (authenticity necessitates sincerity). In other words, through weasel words and omission of essential details, the seller tries to make them appear like something more. If AAA were to describe clearly and succinctly in their auctions "This was a picture I just cut out of a Reach guide I bought on eBay", there would no be an issue of authenticity or deception.

It is legitimate to say that collectors are arbitrary and fickle (because it's true). AAA may justify that a Bazooka or Post card is a cut out, the same as a newspaper clipping. It is true that they are all cutouts. However, the seller always has the responsibility to accurately describe what is being sold. Arbitrary or not, the buyers have the right not to be deceived about what they are about to bid on. 'Bidder's resonable expectations' is not a phrase to be tossed aside by the seller trying to make money.

While what James is offering is not a premium (possibly a supplement, but that’s an issue for another thread), he does specifically say that it was cut from a publication.

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Posted By: Hankron

I wish to point out something about authenticity. I'm certain that Huff will say that what he says factually correct. However, when little crumb-faced kids are asked if they stole the cookie, I'm sure many of them give factually correct yet thorgoughly deceptive answers.

Authenticity requires factual correctness, but also requires sincerity, clarity and forthrightness. If a seller leaves out an 'inconsiquential fact' or paints an item in a false light, so that it raises the sell price by, say, $200, he is essetially selling a fake and he is essential a liar-- even if he was 'factually correct.'

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Posted By: runscott

it's something that's trimmed, but I don't think he knows anything else about it. I exchanged emails with him and couldn't get enough information to warrant bidding on it.

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Posted By: petecld

James seems to have quite the history selling items that he doesn't seem to know exactly what they are. Considering the small size I can't see calling it a supplment. It looks like just another picture cut out worthy of the finest AAA holder.

Who is Sportico?

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Posted By: Hankron

The thing I funny is that the item comes with a Letter of Authenticity but no one knows what it exactly is or where it came from. 'I don't know what it is, but I guarantee it's genuine.'

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Posted By: Hankron

I won't hazzard a guess as to what it is and where it came from. It is, however, noteworthy that it is blank backed, as were most newspaper and magazine suppliments and premium prints. If it is on smooth, coated paper (ala Baseball Magazine Premiums as opposed to the pages in a dimestore paperback), it seems unlikely that it was cut from the inner pages of an old magazine, newspaper or paperback guide.

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Posted By: James Verrill

As usual - there is a thread running, which discusses an individual's integrity/professionalism/sincerity, etc. - me this time around - and, as is seemingly always the case here - nobody has had the courtesy to CC the person in question (me).

Don't you find it relatively simple to CC the person you are speaking about? Particularly, when it is their reputation you are playing with, in such a public forum? Should they not have an opportunity to hear what you have to say, if not express their side of the issue, possibly rebut? Several times recently, I have seen postings by people who "mistakenly" criticized - publicly - on this borad - an Ebay seller - only to learn in the days to follow they had mentioned the wrong ID/person? Why is it that I find this thread only by coincidence, as I peruse some of the recent postings? Don't I post my email address enough for you guys to have the basic courtesy of dropping me a line? This is very insulting.

Bill, I find your comparing my listing to the ethics and products marketed by AAA offensive, to say the least. I think you are making quite a stretch here to find any similarities. For you to take such a cheap shot - or hit and run, like this - is also offensive.

Second, if you do not like the fact that I am selling something on Ebay which I am unable to identify - tough. I have very clearly stated that it is of unknown origin, and I can only assure the eventual buyer of a very few things: 1. It is authentic, 2. It dates to 1919, 3. It depicts the White Sox.

Why do you feel I should provide more information than that? Exactly who ARE you to make such a judgement, and to voice it in such an unfair manner, in which only one opinion is expressed?

There is NOTHING illegitimate about this item. I purchased it in the June 2002 Sportico auction. If you do not know who Sportico is, that is not for me to educate you about. If you do the research, you will see that I paid $300 for the piece, framed, and that, when I bought it, it was decscribed exactly as I have described it, in turn. I purchased it with the understanding that it was from an unknown publisher, which is specifically how I describe it in my listing. It is accompanied by a letter of authenticity from Sportico. A letter that states where it was acquired, and that it is not a reprint.

Your remarks are way out of line and completely unjustified. When have I ever sold a AAA product? If you do the research, you will see that my graded material is sent to PSA and SGC only. Where do you get the AAA reference?

And, "Bill" - had you left your email address with your posting - you know, the "adult" thing to do - I would gladly have sent this to you directly.

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Posted By: RobertS

James--

I was looking at this lot and was curious as to how the original seller acquired it (Sportico). Do you know if they bought it together with any original photographs from a newspaper or photograper archive?

Sometimes you will find file copies of finished pieces completed for by-now-defunct magazines and newspapers. Do you think it could have been done for a banquet program, hand-out, etc.?

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Posted By: Bill

James,

What makes you think it is from 1918-1919? It could have been published in some magazine last year?

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

Hey Bill,try reading what he wrote in his response already and before you go accusing people of stuff on this board learn how to post your email address? anyone know who Bill J is? could he have been born yesterday?....Im suprised Elliot left this thread up when he didnt identify himself

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Posted By: Hankron

After the deleted thread, I had assumed Bill J. was a pseudonym for you know who. This is why my first two posts were about what they were about.

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Scott,aren't all magazine "cuts" in essence trimmed???

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Posted By: Hankron

Pictures cut out from magazines aren't trimmed. When you ask your barber for a trim you don't expect to look in the handheld mirror 10 minutes later and see a Mohawk.

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Posted By: B C Daniels

Trim ?

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Posted By: Hankron

Assuming your are talking about the haircut bit, it was essentially a simile. Whether it's hair on one's head or a pubication, trimming means 'take just a little bit off the edges' as opposed to gouge out the middle.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I'm with John on this one. We have a thread started by an unknown individual on the board making accustions about a known board member and yet people are quick to attack the accused (which I don't fully understand the relation implied with AAA, since the item is not graded by them).

I have had many good dealings with James and he has always treated me fairly. he seems to have done nothing wrong with his auction just describing what he has for sale, not claiming it is anything more.

I sure would like to see responses, especially to accusations about someone a little more thought out.

Happy Holidays

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Posted By: Hankron

Lee and James, I hope the complaint is against Bill alone, as the other posts about this item were completely justified. I won't doubt that it's from 1919 and a fine and collectable item. As I already noted, it does have some qualities of premiums and suppliments. In the end, perhaps it was cut from a rare and wonderful premium and I'll be jelous when I later find out. However as the seller and, apparently, the issuer of the LOA don't know how it was issued or what exactly it is (Though the wallflowers of the board won't admit it, I'm sure we would all love to see what it says on that dang SportiCo LOA), speculation is both reasonable and to be expected. Lastly, a premium by definition can't be cut from a publication, which makes James' auction description confusing, at least to me-- especially as there is a wealth of difference in the hobby's eyes between a cutout from a publication and a real premium. I understand that James doesn't know what it exactly is-- that is not a problem-- but some clarity in the decription would have gone a long way to soothe the savage beast that is the Network54.

I may come across as the bad guy here, but my points are accurate.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

My main gripe about the thread is associating the item for sale with AAA, which has nothing to do at all with the item in question, and the fact the attack was from a relatively unknown on the board, with follow up by board members with out first consulting James ( who is accessable).
I do agree with the points you have Hankron, and I don't agree with James not divulge any info on Sportico. This should not have happened to James but it has and I think some clarity to the Sportico point should be cleared up by James.
i think everyone should have a say on the board but when someone is being attacked, especially a board member why not ask the person about your problem first before writing on the board. If you have a point there is more fuel for the thread and not a blind attack.
Just a little civility would be nice so we don't have anymore Koos situations.

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Posted By: Hankron

Lee, as already noted, I find the description troublesome, and anyone who writes a troublesome description should expect some heat. Anyone who uses 'premium' and 'cut from a publication' to describe the same item would be naive not to expect, at the least, raised eyebrows.

Having said that, I agree that this board isn't always civil (especially if they aren't regular posters) and that private communication with James would have been desirable. I know that I would prefer a private email if ever anyone else found something I did particularly objectionable-- giving me the chance to make amends. I'm a gossip as much as anyone else, and will point the finger of blame uncivility-wise no further than to me.