T206 Drum Red Cobb on Ebay tonight

[HobokenJon]

Hi there. I'm a longtime reader, first-time poster. The reason I'm posting is there's a "PSA Authentic" T206 Drum Red Ty Cobb for auction on ebay tonight. The price is up to about $6,100, and there have been 31 bids.

I noticed that the card's unique identifiers bear a striking resemblance in
numerous respects to the "SGC Authentic" T206 Drum Red Cobb that Hunt Auctions sold a couple of years ago, which was fully disclosed at the time as trimmed. In other respects, the PSA-graded card looks significantly different, which leads me to wonder if this might be the same card, removed from the SGC holder, altered anew, and submitted to PSA.

Here's the link to the Hunt Auctions listing:
http://www.huntauctions.com/online/i...=646&lot_qual=

Here's the link to the ebay listing tonight:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Ty-Cobb...58125176228890

Note the similarities :
1) The shape of the dark splotch to the left of Cobb's second button
2) The size and shape of the various yellow marks around his head
3) The size and shape of the dark splotch on the right border across from
Cobb's ear
4) The seemingly identical shape of the rounding on the bottom corners
5) The seemingly identical pattern of the dark spots along the left, right and
bottom borders
5) Just about every other distinguishing characteristic on the lower 90% of the card's front.

Now note the differences:
1) In the PSA version, the card's top left corner is not sharp.
2) The top right corner of the PSA specimen seems to be rubbed so that part of what used to be red is rubbed off.
3) On the back top of the PSA version, the semi-circles in the border are
smaller than in the SGC version
4) Most importantly, there is no paper loss on the back of the PSA version. The SGC version appears to have significant paper loss on the right border next to the "s" in Cigarettes, which is rubbed off.

Now note this similarity about the two' cards backs: Just about everything else on the two cards' backs is identical, including the size, shape and location of each dark splotch.

The PSA listing also carried this interesting description: "This incredible
card is one of only two graded T206 DRUM Cobb’s in the hobby ..." Actually, SGC shows one graded Drum, and PSA shows two graded Drums. If the card for sale tonight indeed is the SGC-graded specimen that was previously sold in the Hunt auction, then the listing description is accurate. However, it also would raise the question: How does he know there are only two, when the population reports show three?

It seems to me there is a possibility that someone cracked open the SGC Drum Red Cobb, altered it to redraw the intricate curved detail in the back right border, re-trimmed the top border and rounded the corners to make them look more credible, submitted the card to PSA for regrading in hopes of getting a 1 or better, and got another "Authentic" grade. Only if this is the case, I have to wonder whether PSA should have called it Authentic.

Thoughts?

[atx840]

It's definitely the same card, been discussed a few time on here. Still a great card in my opinion, just shady consigners.

[HobokenJon]

So what does that say about PSA and its "authentic" grade, if the company is willing to call something authentic that has had obvious restoration done to it within the past two years? In this instance, for all we know, the card has been re-backed at least in part.

[steve B]

I think with all grading companies "authentic" means it's a real example of that sort of card that's been altered or has some other aspect that means they can't give it a number grade.

It's certainly a T206 Drum Cobb, and it's certainly been altered. SGC gave it an A for authentic when it was merely trimmed.

Personally I prefer the way stamp certificates word it. In this case it would be something like "It is genuine, trimmed, with partially redrawn back and fraudulently worn upper corners"

Much better than an A which could be altered, trimmed, recolored, rebacked, or simply a card that is original but undersize or one that has a cut that's too rough on one or more sides.

Steve B

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

I think with all grading companies "authentic" means it's a real example of that sort of card that's been altered or has some other aspect that means they can't give it a number grade.

It's certainly a T206 Drum Cobb, and it's certainly been altered. SGC gave it an A for authentic when it was merely trimmed.

Personally I prefer the way stamp certificates word it. In this case it would be something like "It is genuine, trimmed, with partially redrawn back and fraudulently worn upper corners"

Much better than an A which could be altered, trimmed, recolored, rebacked, or simply a card that is original but undersize or one that has a cut that's too rough on one or more sides.

Steve B

The 'Authentic' grade sans detail is nonsense. It's for people who have no clue what they are buying, or for those who just want a pretty slab to match all their other ones.

John D sent a very fun link to an old thread where we discussed the first such miscreant case of this very bad idea. It's worth another read:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/15365...+Jesse+Burkett

[steve B]

I agree. They can put the reason on a slip when you opt not to slab as "A" so it should be possible to include the reason on the slab.

Steve B