Is it just me...

[HOF Auto Rookies]

That when I always look at threads in regards to T206's it seems like everyone is trying to find the "next big variation" of maybe a letter, number, or line etc. that shouldn't be on the card.

I do find it neat, but it is kind of ridiculous when inquiries are made about a dot on a card, line or whatever and to hope it's of value.

I guess where I'm heading is why T206? Why does everyone care so much about a print line, dot, errors, ghosts, or what not in the T206 set but not othets? Why is there no popularity for errors in other sets, why just T206's?

I don't mind nor care, I love learning about our hobby and about the foundation sets that helped build our hobby to where it is today. I just want to know why it seems that everyone is concerned with the T206 set and if a number should be on a hat or not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

That when I always look at threads in regards to T206's it seems like everyone is trying to find the "next big variation" of maybe a letter, number, or line etc. that shouldn't be on the card.

I do find it neat, but it is kind of ridiculous when inquiries are made about a dot on a card, line or whatever and to hope it's of value.

I guess where I'm heading is why T206? Why does everyone care so much about a print line, dot, errors, ghosts, or what not in the T206 set but not othets? Why is there no popularity for errors in other sets, why just T206's?

I don't mind nor care, I love learning about our hobby and about the foundation sets that helped build our hobby to where it is today. I just want to know why it seems that everyone is concerned with the T206 set and if a number should be on a hat or not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey... It's The Monster.

[FirstYearCards]

Collectors from the 80's 90's find it an easier vintage set to collect? Therefore any variations make it feel like they have something unique? Kind of like collecting modern error cards?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by FirstYearCards

Collectors from the 80's 90's find it an easier vintage set to collect? Therefore any variations make it feel like they have something unique? Kind of like collecting modern error cards?

But modern errors aren't too valuable or sought after. There are "errors" or variations on purpose mainly for modern. The biggest variation is maybe a card missing their name, and who knows if that's planned or not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

That when I always look at threads in regards to T206's it seems like everyone is trying to find the "next big variation" of maybe a letter, number, or line etc. that shouldn't be on the card.

I do find it neat, but it is kind of ridiculous when inquiries are made about a dot on a card, line or whatever and to hope it's of value.

I guess where I'm heading is why T206? Why does everyone care so much about a print line, dot, errors, ghosts, or what not in the T206 set but not othets? Why is there no popularity for errors in other sets, why just T206's?

I don't mind nor care, I love learning about our hobby and about the foundation sets that helped build our hobby to where it is today. I just want to know why it seems that everyone is concerned with the T206 set and if a number should be on a hat or not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I share your question(s) Brent. I don't really have a problem or issue with certain things like WST carrying a crazy premium in one set, when being deemed simply as flaws in any other set... I don't collect them, so it doesn't affect me, and am a big believer in "to each his own", but it is puzzling in regards to T206. Some things like the really extreme ghosts, crazy over overlapping backed cards, crazy 1/2 miscut Cobb/Young are pretty cool to me, but many (off registration, slight WST or ghosting, slight MC) just make the cards look worse IMO. I think tracking marks on backs and stuff in order to identify sheet arrangement is cool too. I appreciate anyone willing to do detective work on anything collecting related, but do think "puffery" goes on too.

Seems the more attention (and/or promotion) they get here, the more hype and demand. Seems similar is happening with varying degrees of success all the time for other things whether it be condition related, set related, player related, or other... And this hype and "puffery" seem to have real effects on value.

I don't have any issue with genuine enthusiasm, or anyone's true wants/tastes... But have mixed feelings on the idea of promoting certain things for self serving purposes (if/when this may happen). When I say "mixed" I mean it, since it's not against any laws or rules to hype. Just leaves me with a funny feeling.

[Econteachert205]

Some of the print variations and multiple names shed light on possible sheet orientation which is still for the most part a mystery.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

That when I always look at threads in regards to T206's it seems like everyone is trying to find the "next big variation" of maybe a letter, number, or line etc. that shouldn't be on the card.

I do find it neat, but it is kind of ridiculous when inquiries are made about a dot on a card, line or whatever and to hope it's of value.

I guess where I'm heading is why T206? Why does everyone care so much about a print line, dot, errors, ghosts, or what not in the T206 set but not othets? Why is there no popularity for errors in other sets, why just T206's?

I don't mind nor care, I love learning about our hobby and about the foundation sets that helped build our hobby to where it is today. I just want to know why it seems that everyone is concerned with the T206 set and if a number should be on a hat or not...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not just the T206 cards. I collect 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson and Bill Ripken errors. I guarantee if you find any of those errors you listed for the T206 cards on those 2 modern cards they would also get a premium.
I just sold a Bill Ripken Loop Scribble card because it had a print dot in the I in Bill in his name on the card front.

[FirstYearCards]

Quick to my point.

[Luke]

I agree that it often goes overboard, and the little minute details that some threads call attention to can be a bit of a stretch. However, it makes sense to me in a lot of ways. First, more people collect t206, so more people are going to find a t206 oddity within their collection than say, an e90-3. Second, there is an obvious market for t206 print errors, so there is a financial incentive (whether we like it or not) involved in finding a rare, sought after variation. I think a lot of people may not care too much for the variation they are asking about, they just hope it might be worth a premium to someone else, so they can flip it for a HOFer or another card they really want (this part is just an opinion). Finally, people just love this set, and once they complete it, they still want to be actively involved in collecting it to some degree, so they look for other little niches. Moving on to collecting a Dockman's set (for example) just doesn't have the same allure for most people, so they remain inlvolved in collecting t206s in some form or another. For some people, it's backs, for others it's subsets, and others like the freaks/oddities.

[steve B]

Sorry in advance, this ended up longer than I expected.

I can't say much about why other people are interested in them, but here's how I look at it.

The set is popular. Probably because it's large enough to have subsets that can be put together without spending a pile of money. Maybe a small pile if the subset has more HOF players or a tougher card. Even the set less the handful of cards that aren't all that affordable is possible on a fairly tight budget.

But the things that make that possible also make it frankly a bit dull. As the Ruttles said "all you need is cash" (and a bit of time).

So if you collect T206, and maybe get to a point where maybe you're between cards that are decent deals and visually appealing, you start looking for something else. At first it's backs. But well, as interesting as they are, they're backs. And either you get the easy ones pretty quickly, or it just gets old. I started wanting one of each brand. And got as far as needing Drum and Uzit and ignoring the Ty Cobb back, until Drum and Uzit became impossible for me too. Then I wanted to get closer on all the factory and series differences. And found that I only needed about 6-7 of them. And that about half of those were out of the question as well. (I still have no idea how I missed SC150 F649 but I had. )

But.........I do collect printing errors on pretty much any card. Mostly modern since they're cheap. One dealer used to give me a few now and then. They're worth a bit if they're really bad, but not a whole lot especially if it's not a superstar.

And then I realized that T206 has this huge puzzle. Not just what cards came with what exact back, but how many were on a sheet. Since I also collect stamps, it seemed like a familiar puzzle. Stamps have a thing called "plating" where someone buys a boatload of stamps and tries to figure out which plate each one is from . Not done much on new stuff, they're very consistent. But on the 1850's stamps it's really popular. (Most have been done by now) It's also done for a few other groups.
T206 is a bigger puzzle, basically almost nothing is known. With stamps the size of the sheet is known, and how many different plates were used. And there are usually blocks or pairs. So you can figure out that the one with the slightly different corner is next to the one with an extra dot, and THAT one is the first one in the second row...........Yeah, it's a bit nuts. Just like collecting pictures of dead guys on cardboard is a bit nuts.

So, it's a huge challenging puzzle.

Other sets are the same, but for instance, I can find a picture of a sheet of T-212s. And the E cards and other T cards are a bit more challenging because they're usually more expensive. (I do save scans of some if there's an interesting flaw, or something like that. )

Most of the "finds" I don't think of as having any extra value. If a lot of people decide they want to pay a bit more--or a lot more, I'll be happy if I have one. If not it doesn't bother me. I gave up on the concept of "completing" the set years ago. But a new twist or tiny difference that can be shown to be consistent is a clue to the solution to the puzzle. And that's interesting.

And as a bonus, it's a challenge that doesn't require a whole lot of money. Or if there are good enough scans, any money.
There's also the little bit of thrill of discovery and the hunt itself.

To me it's a great feeling to hold something and realize that there's something special about it that's gone unnoticed for a very long time. And that the handful of people who care will be just as excited to learn that little thing.

I examine new cards the same way, I collect stuff that pretty much gets ignored by very nearly everyone. like different holograms on UD cards, and different die cutting on 1988 score.(And different screening on 1988 score that I just found out about. )

I'd probably be looking for them if the cards were still around 1.50 each like they were when I started collecting them.

If someone doesn't get it or thinks it's frightfully boring (and it IS, most of the time) I think that's just fine. We all collect differently for different reasons, and that's pretty cool.

Steve B

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It's not just the T206 cards. I collect 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson and Bill Ripken errors. I guarantee if you find any of those errors you listed for the T206 cards on those 2 modern cards they would also get a premium.

I just sold a Bill Ripken Loop Scribble card because it had a print dot in the I in Bill in his name on the card front.

Thank you for bringing up those two, I know those are very sought after, and hilarious lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Thanks for all the input so far, it's a great learning experience knowing why people collect certain cards or what to look out for that may be pretty neat to own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atx840]

Great post Steve.

I like the oddities as they are (mostly) unique and that, to me, makes them extra cool to collect. Owning a card from a print test sheet is more interesting than a common that survived in high grade. Personal preference.

As well the print marks, factory #s, double names, ghosts, plate scratches all slight clues left behind. Another side to collecting, trying to solve a 6000 piece 100 year old puzzle with no reference image to go off of

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by atx840

Great post Steve.



I like the oddities as they are (mostly) unique and that, to me, makes them extra cool to collect. Owning a card from a print test sheet is more interesting than a common that survived in high grade. Personal preference.



As well the print marks, factory #s, double names, ghosts, plate scratches all slight clues left behind. Another side to collecting, trying to solve a 6000 piece 100 year old puzzle with no reference image to go off of

Great points by you and Steve. I've always enjoyed your posts of your crazy ghosts, errors, and they are pretty much like your T206 hooligans because they just don't fit in lol

Glad you mentioned the test runs, because for modern the pricing is not anything special. I love the superfractor test runs for modern, probably more so because they are so cheap yet still one of a kind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[freakhappy]

I don't mind seeing threads about this sort of thing, but what really gets me is when someone wants to sell a card worth $50 for $200 because part of a letter is missing....really? I know it's a popular set, but it gets to be ridiculous and a lot of people here take advantage of it. I can see if it's a ghost or scrap or something, but the minute errors are whatever. In the end, to each their own.

I'll be honest with you...I think these types of threads get created because someone is bored or they are hoping to strike it rich...Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that way.

[teetwoohsix]

Steve, Luke and Chris made great points.

Since I started collecting T206's, my main objective has always been to get as close to completion of the set (minus the ones I know I cannot afford) and hopefully acquire at least one example of each back. But- the priority to me is the fronts. Now, to add a little excitement- people (like me) will examine the card to death looking for any type of printer flaw or anything that might make it somewhat unique. It just adds a bit of excitement. I honestly don't care about how much something like that makes a card worth- I find more pleasure just owning it and knowing that THIS one is a little different.

Some people only care about the monetary part of it- and that would make collecting less fun to me if I had to concern myself with that. That is why I mainly just by a card and keep it.

But, there are so many ways to collect the T206 set and to each their own. I love everything about the set, the freaks, WST's, ghosts, crop marks, registration being off a bit- I like all that stuff. I also just like straight up nice looking fronts with a Piedmont 350 back- it's all fun to me.

One of the funnest ways I've found to collect the set- and to get that feeling of having something unique in my collection- is searching for (or finding by accident) tough front/back combinations. It is a great feeling (to me) knowing I have a card that maybe only a few other people have (because of the combination), and it doesn't cost thousands to do it.

This card is one of my favorites, picked up on the B/S/T from another board member (thanks again!) and as soon as I saw it I had to have it. It's huge borders add a uniqueness to it, it was affordable, and I have yet to see another. And no, I am not selling it But I love knowing I have it- I think many people like having things in their collection that slightly set it off from another collection.

And, some collectors only want the cards that are so unique (hey Johnny V. ) that their whole set is unique in itself. Different strokes for different folks.

I can go on and on about this Just adding my perspective.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Jobu]

I think that most of the posts are honest interest in collecting the set, though there are certainly a few blatant posts hoping to score a few bucks (that said, who wouldn't like to have a card for which they paid $40 end up being worth $1k?).

I think the level of scrutiny of this set is due to T206 inertia. By that I mean the number of front/back combos for individual cards so impressive (e.g. Chris's Chase blue portrait run) that seriously collecting this set naturally requires a higher level of scrutiny than collecting sets where the 100 fronts have no back variations, yielding only 100 distinct cards (compared to the thousands of combinations possible with T206). The hunt for the many intended T206 variations naturally leads to a higher level of scrutiny and therefore interest in the oddities - in T206 collectors seek both condition and variation while in other sets collectors generally seek condition alone.

[Luke]

Clayton,

Well said. I love that Waddell. I have a group of similar oversized cards that I love and wouldn't sell either. I remember when that card came up for sale. All of my cards were lower grade, so I hesitated just because a 4 was "too nice for my collection". Haha, live and learn I guess. I'm glad it's in a loving home It's a beauty!

[Sean]

Clayton, that is a great oversize Waddell.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I think that most of the posts are honest interest in collecting the set, though there are certainly a few blatant posts hoping to score a few bucks (that said, who wouldn't like to have a card for which they paid $40 end up being worth $1k?).

yes

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Luke and Sean

Luke....I was very surprised when I saw it was available because I typically won't go to the B/S/T if I don't have money to buy a card. It's like teasing myself....and I always will see something I want...so I've had to practice restraint But when I saw that card, I seriously couldn't believe it hadn't been snatched up. I'm very grateful to have it- thanks for the kind words. And, at least you have a few yourself Awesome.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Luke]

Thanks Clayton. I actually get almost as big a kick out of seeing a friend get a new card they really like as when I'm the one getting the card. I remember one time I bid a ridiculously high amount on a Pink Chase portrait that was oversized and had full names at the top and bottom. I was really surprised my bid didn't hold up and kind of bummed (at least for a few minutes). Then a few days later, Jeff posted it in the pickup thread, and I was happy that he could have it for his awesome collection, and I felt it belonged there more than in mine. It's fun giving assists on cards for other people when I can and seeing everyone else enjoying their collections. Probably the main reason I enjoy this site.

Here's an oversized card I just got in the mail a few minutes ago. Maybe we can turn this into an oversized card thread

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Interesting points, are they any other earlier sets with as many combos? Like, does the T205 set even come close to as many combos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve B]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Interesting points, are they any other earlier sets with as many combos? Like, does the T205 set even come close to as many combos?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T205 is pretty big, but not really close. Fewer cards, and fewer backs. It's a pretty big challenge though and nice ones can be amazing. I think there's more really tough varieties that are more major than the ones in T206.

Now the Old Judge set or sets.........That's the real monster. 3000+ different cards, new ones being found fairly often, and any particular one fairly tough compared to the mainstream T cards. I'd collect them if I had enough money.

Steve B

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by steve B

T205 is pretty big, but not really close. Fewer cards, and fewer backs. It's a pretty big challenge though and nice ones can be amazing. I think there's more really tough varieties that are more major than the ones in T206.

Now the Old Judge set or sets.........That's the real monster. 3000+ different cards, new ones being found fairly often, and any particular one fairly tough compared to the mainstream T cards. I'd collect them if I had enough money.

Steve B

Do you know anyone that has completed the Old Judge set(s)? That seems like torture and I'm sure very very pricey to complete. I wouldn't call it the real monster, I'd call it pure death by cardboard!

[steve B]

The Old judge guys would know better, but I can't imagine anyone having even gotten close. I know some of the cards are unique or nearly unique.

Steve B

[T206Collector]

Collectors want their collections to be special and unique. When you collect T206 cards you have a lot in common with hundreds or even thousands of other collectors. Finding anomalies on ordinary T206 cards makes the card and the collection it belongs to more personal to the owner.

Underlying all of this is the passion many T206 collectors share for their little cardboard gems. The images become so well known that even the slightest variations can jump off the paper and sparkle.

Now add two collectors that will spend $1,000+ on a comma-shaped period. Word spreads, and before you know it, everyone with a T206 card is looking for the same little glitch that they had never noticed before. Suddenly, you've got a phenomenon driven by a small group of people who are willing to spend real cash on such minutiae.

If you had two collectors constantly facing off with mega dollars trying to corner the market on some of the Jimmy Dykes 26 vs. 36 age variation cards, you might be able to trigger the same sort of phenomenon in 1933 Goudey. Two wealthy collectors bidding to the death against each other for the age 26 variation would quickly resolve in a spike of interest in this otherwise mundane variation. That might then bleed into additional Goudey variation price bumps.

The first time I saw a true "ghost image" on a T206, I knew it was cool and wanted one just because of that. However, the first time I found a Baker without the blue ink, I knew I wanted to sell it because of the demand for such a variation. Sometimes you're willing to pay a premium because you like a card -- and sometimes you're willing to pay a premium because you think someone else will pay you even bigger dollars for it. This is one of the phenomena that drives T206 variation pricing.

When I "complain" about the ridiculous prices autographed T206 cards are fetching these days, more than a few people responded by telling me that I have no one else to blame but myself for promoting how cool they were on Net54. There are a lot of people promoting their T206 variations on Net54. That promotion spurs interest, and drives prices.

[teetwoohsix]

Sweet card Luke, that is a beauty! Very nice addition. Good eye!

T206Collector- great post!

Sincerely, Clayton