To Catch a Signed T206 Forger

[T206Collector]

So when I try to contact Teri781 through eBay about item number 362228869475 I get an error message, but when I try to contact Teri781 about any of the other items on this sheet I can see the item and ask a question. What is going on here - am I misreading the id?

https://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...o=362228869527

[T206Collector]

Manny also uncovered an apparent T206 Parent forgery:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=262673

[oldjudge]

Did you talk to Steve Verkman to find out where he got the card?

[The Nasty Nati]

Add some more t206 forgeries to the list: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=262673

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

So when I try to contact Teri781 through eBay about item number 362228869475 I get an error message, but when I try to contact Teri781 about any of the other items on this sheet I can see the item and ask a question. What is going on here - am I misreading the id?

https://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...o=362228869527

I think because the listing has fallen off eBay's radar... usually 90 days... Watchpoint.com didn't have it either...

[Jobu]

Ebay removes your ability to click on and or search for older sales. However, if you have the exact link from when the sale was made, you can still see the page -- though it is without the pictures. This works back to at least early 2016, though at some point they may fully take pages down rather than just removing the index to them, I don't know because I don't have anything older.

Just a heads up for anyone who likes to over do it on the record keeping. (I quit saving links in favor of screenshots when I realized the pictures disappeared.)

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

I think because the listing has fallen off eBay's radar... usually 90 days... Watchpoint.com didn't have it either...

[oldjudge]

I don’t collect these, but my heart goes out to those who do. This is a horrible situation for the hobby, but one that must be cleaned up as quickly as possible. Leon, can you make sure that Brian sees all this? My guess is that, given the recentness of some of these forgeries, that the FBI could find the forger or forgers pretty quickly.

[T206Collector]

I've got a lot of feelings today - anger, sadness, frustration, deep deep depression...

...but, I also want my entire collection vetted by Manny and all of the sleuths out there. I don't want to own well made garbage. I want the real thing. And I want it to stand up to any test of authenticity available. I've spent the last several hours combing through Worthpoint on any T206 I got from an auction house in the last several years, and if anyone wants to play along you are more than welcome.

I'm going to be spending a little more time identifying and preserving the provenance of the items I own, including date I picked them up. Most of my cards were purchased in 2008 and earlier. But, including the Sullivan, I do have some real-time exposure on some of my more recent (and expensive) pickups.

I still love my signed T206s, just not the ones signed by Frank Abagnale, Jr.!

[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Most of my cards were purchased in 2008 and earlier.

Not to be the bearer of more bad news, but there were lots of fakes before 2008 as well.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Not to be the bearer of more bad news, but there were lots of fakes before 2008 as well.

Sorry, yes. Didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. Just that the dollars at stake for a signed Rube Marquard back then was sub-$400. My first two signed T206s of Rube cost under $100 on eBay in 2004.

[topcat61]

I have a few questions for the grading companies and the auction houses... but they're either complicit or incompetent -or probably both.

1) How long to these grading companies spend on examining an autographed card on average?

2) who grades them?

3) what qualifications do they have?

4) Besides the forger, is anyone held legally responsible? How about for authenticating and grading a forged card?

I would think that the FBI should look at this and I'd probably start with SGC first since it looks like they've been authenticating most of these cards.

I'd also start looking at the auction houses and grading companies with a forensic financial investigator. My gut feeling is that these grading companies are giving preferential treatment to the auction houses over collectors and dealers because they're the ones giving the most amount of money. I also suspect that these grading companies are spending an inadequate amount of time on each card because either A) the company doesn't have a copy of the signature on file or B) they're behind on submissions.

[topcat61]

Now the latest, and a lot of the people on here and elsewhere know this was going to happen eventually -

https://prewarcards.com/2018/12/06/f...oHFOQV5WcQ64oE

[HobokenJon]

The authenticator in question in my view tossed his reputation out the window with this letter to the court on behalf of Mastro -- after Mastro had been convicted.


And think about it . . . How would anyone know if a purported autograph of an obscure ballplayer from 100+ years ago was real, even in the absence of forensic evidence that it was fake?

[Jobu]

Not so sure I trust the sig on that letter.

Originally Posted by HobokenJon

The authenticator in question in my view tossed his reputation out the window with this letter to the court on behalf of Mastro -- after Mastro had been convicted.




And think about it . . . How would anyone know if a purported autograph of an obscure ballplayer from 100+ years ago was real, even in the absence of forensic evidence that it was fake?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Not so sure I trust the sig on that letter.

I kind of had the same thought. I would think in a few hours one with some technical savvy and a notary embosser could forge those letters all day long.

[mckinneyj]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

I think because the listing has fallen off eBay's radar... usually 90 days... Watchpoint.com didn't have it either...

The feedback item immediately below it is accessible and I suspect slightly older as it has a slightly lower item number - they differ in only final 3 digits - 527 vs 475 with the 475 still being accessible but the 527 not.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by mckinneyj

The feedback item immediately below it is accessible and I suspect slightly older as it has a slightly lower item number - they differ in only final 3 digits - 527 vs 475 with the 475 still being accessible but the 527 not.

Exactly. Something else is at play here.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by mckinneyj

The feedback item immediately below it is accessible and I suspect slightly older as it has a slightly lower item number - they differ in only final 3 digits - 527 vs 475 with the 475 still being accessible but the 527 not.

That buyer on the Lajoie (ending in 475) only had 197 feedback score so probably not our perp...

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

So when I try to contact Teri781 through eBay about item number 362228869475 I get an error message, but when I try to contact Teri781 about any of the other items on this sheet I can see the item and ask a question. What is going on here - am I misreading the id?

https://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...o=362228869527

My eBay name shows up on VCP as f***f. I have never used Worthpoint so I'm not sure what it shows as there. I have owned one T-206 card which I listed for sale here 2 1/2 years ago. I can send someone a card that I bought so they can check Worthpoint to see what my user name shows up as on there. I can assure everyone that the f***f is not me.
James

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

My eBay name shows up on VCP as f***f. I have never used Worthpoint so I'm not sure what it shows as there. I have owned one T-206 card which I listed for sale here 2 1/2 years ago. I can send someone a card that I bought so they can check Worthpoint to see what my user name shows up as on there. I can assure everyone that the f***f is not me.
James

Those user names are randomized or scrambled by eBay. They don't correspond to the actual user name.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Those user names are randomized or scrambled by eBay. They don't correspond to the actual user name.

I know that. My eBay user name is the same as my user name on this and several other forums. My user name always shows as f***f on VCP as the buyer.
James

[JeremyW]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Those user names are randomized or scrambled by eBay. They don't correspond to the actual user name.

I've always thought that the two letters that they do show are actually part of the username. Am I wrong about that?

[Laxcat]

Does anyone else think an “inside man” would be needed for this sort of forgery?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by JeremyW

I've always thought that the two letters that they do show are actually part of the username. Am I wrong about that?

It is, however I notice they differ on some auctions, but are changed back in VCP

[mrvster]

sucks!!! and now makes me suspicious of 206 autographed cards

[ALBB]

Incredible detective work on this

[Fred]

PSA and SGC have policies for false authentication. How does this work out for autographs?

Do you want to put some pressure on to find all of the people responsible?

If PSA, SGC and others (JSA) have some type of guarantee then hold them to the guarantee. Hit their bottom line. My guess is that it will do a couple things:

• Get them motivated to find the source of the problem
  
• Make them think twice about just slabbing something based on ONE highly regarded persons opinion

What would be interesting to find out is if there has been a HUGE increase in the number of submissions for signed T-cards in the past few years when compared to the prior years.

How many T206 cards were submitted? How many T205 cards were submitted? I would think that there would have been all kinds of T-cards submitted for authentication, not just T206.

PSA has a pop report for "just cards". Do they also have a pop report for "signed cards"? It would be interesting to see what cards have been authenticated and who the authenticator is. Also, how has the population increased over the years.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Fred

PSA has a pop report for "just cards". Do they also have a pop report for "signed cards"?

Yes, there is a link at the top of the set pop report that will take you to the bottom, where the PSA/DNA signed card pop report is.
https://www.psacard.com/pop/t206/#DNAPop

However, this is only for all Red Flips and Blue Flips more than 2 years old. Newer blue flips just have "Trading Card" at top; but for vintage signed cards, most would be currently submitted with red flip dual authentication service.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Ebay removes your ability to click on and or search for older sales. However, if you have the exact link from when the sale was made, you can still see the page -- though it is without the pictures. This works back to at least early 2016, though at some point they may fully take pages down rather than just removing the index to them, I don't know because I don't have anything older.

Just a heads up for anyone who likes to over do it on the record keeping. (I quit saving links in favor of screenshots when I realized the pictures disappeared.)

There is a trick to it. Since ebay changed the way they file these you can use this as a shortcut that should work and then click on Original Item button
(far right).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ITEM#HERE

[biggsdaddycool]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

There is a trick to it. Since ebay changed the way they file these you can use this as a shortcut that should work and then click on Original Item button
(far right).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ITEM#HERE

This link is bad.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[swarmee]

You need to replace his words at the end with the item number in the browser url line.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

So when I try to contact Teri781 through eBay about item number 362228869475 I get an error message, but when I try to contact Teri781 about any of the other items on this sheet I can see the item and ask a question. What is going on here - am I misreading the id?

https://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...o=362228869527

This means the item was removed from ebay. Likely returned or removed for a certain reason.