Considering selling everything - Final Update/Tally

[Econteachert205]

Listings have been ended except cobb, but I disagree that he had to lie to end the listing. There is an option called there was a problem was the listing and clearly between the photos and the inability to accurately describe 600 autos in one lot, I feel it's fine to pull. That's what the 10percent cost is there for, to keep anyone from pulling at any time for any reason. This to me is a good reason.

[chernieto]

Kevin,
As others have mentioned clear photos make a big difference in the final selling price. Good luck!!

[drcy]

You might consider consigning all the autographs. In person signed Hubbell signed bat, glove and ball are decent items. A good Hubbell signed bat might sell for $200, and, even if modern, there aren't a lot of Hubbell signed gloves around.

[Luke]

Kevin,

Like the rest of the guys are saying, you need to take a step back and formulate a plan. Even if you had paid $4k for this collection, the way you are going about selling it would still be wrong. If you're going to buy a big group, you have to have a plan to maximize your return on it. Listing 600 autographs together shows you had no plan. Time to make one.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

Kevin,

Like the rest of the guys are saying, you need to take a step back and formulate a plan. Even if you had paid $4k for this collection, the way you are going about selling it would still be wrong. If you're going to buy a big group, you have to have a plan to maximize your return on it. Listing 600 autographs together shows you had no plan. Time to make one.

+1.....take the time to list items in smaller groups, or singles when possible, as this will maximize your return. FP items will typically allow for a better sell price, IMO.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

Listings have been ended except cobb, but I disagree that he had to lie to end the listing. There is an option called there was a problem was the listing and clearly between the photos and the inability to accurately describe 600 autos in one lot, I feel it's fine to pull. That's what the 10percent cost is there for, to keep anyone from pulling at any time for any reason. This to me is a good reason.

I'd like to get an opinion from Ethicsteachert205.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

+1. Very nice suggestions.

Kevin- As I have said, this won't be your biggest financial mistake in life. (most likely). I could name a dozen I have done and came out ok, and I am a little fish on a budget. Just be glad you didn't buy some restaurants.....or get out of the stock market at the exact wrong time. Don't let this one issue completely stop you from collecting. There is more good than bad, by far, in the hobby. Chalk it up, recoup what you can, sit back and reflect for while, then come back with a bit more experience and yours eyes a bit more open. It's ok. And I moved this thread so others can have a cautionary tale to consider when doing their own deals. Many, if not most times, they aren't what they seem.

+1 exactly! Mistakes are part of collecting, and I think we've all gone in at times with too much enthusiasm and insufficient knowledge. It's not the end of the world!

Best of luck to you,

Larry

[DHogan]

Time heals all wounds. Some leave scars. It sounds like you have a great wife.

[bobbyw8469]

I didn't do enough research to understand just how low the A cards went for.

Don't believe this statement one bit. If the card looks really nice for the grade, some collectors could care less if it has been trimmed. I'm not saying they have ulterior motives, but it is a chance to get a really nice looking card for lesser money than they would pay if it got a numeric grade.

[buymycards]

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Rick

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Ricki

Ricki,
I apologize. I am paying the price in the fees and I will obviously lose part of the market (you and others) in the future.

I like to think that I have a level of integrity. That is why I asked the question before I took it down. It sounds like I did the wrong thing and I am sorry. I wish that I would have made this post yesterday and had a better state of mind when I put up items.

[drcy]

You hastily put up the lots in the wrong state of mind under duress, then when people pointed out you should wait and better plan before selling the stuff you had to make a decision one way or the other. Don't feel bad about it. I'm not ordinarily for ending auctions early, but you should be given a hard time under the situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Ricki

And who can blame you. What a train wreck.

[Orioles1954]

Absent of reading every post in this thread, why not just consign the cards to a major auction house of your choosing and be done with it? Life is too short.

[kailes2872]

I wish that I would have posted this yesterday. I woke up today thinking that I was going to liquidate everything and this thread helped me snap out of the funk a bit and think about a plan. My pride was hurt and I was spinning a bit. I was looking at the stuff and it made me ill. i wanted it gone. I probably sold the lot for too cheap on BST last night and now have $30-$40 in Ebay fees as a result of stopping the auctions. From the above thread, it looks like I did the wrong thing pulling them down. It was less than 24 hours ago, but it was still pulling down after I had them listed. Hopefully, I have paid my last stupid tax on the lot. Between the opportunity costs lost on the lot last night and the fee for pulling down, I need to add $100-$150 to the original total when I keep track of how far I can claw back.

When you add in the PMs offering to sell my collection, it has been an interesting few hours to say the least, but I will heed the advice of the board and proceed with a plan.

My plan will be his:
1.) I will get a new scanner. We have a 3-1, but it sounds like there are better ones designed for listings. If someone could throw out a suggestion, that will be a top priority.

2.) Step away for a brief time and get rid of the emotion.

3.) Red Man's - sell individually with good scans (54 cards total)

4.) 1953 Bowman Color - sell card #1 (nice shape), Musial, Hodges, Rizzuto
and Wynn individually. Sell the rest as 10 card common lots starting at $9.99
(54 cards total)

5.) 1950 Bowman - Sell stars individually. Sell others as 10 card common lots. (175 cards total) starting at 9.99

6.) 1951 Topps Red Backs - Sell stars individually. Sell others in 10 card lots (26 cards total) starting at 9.99

7.) 499 '59 Topps nice grade. Sell stars - roughly 20 individually, sell high numbers (non-star) individually, sell others in 25 card lots. starting price of $9.99

8.) 380 1966 cards. Very few if any high or SP's - mid grade. Sell stars (Mantle, Aaron, Jenkins, Sutton) individually, all others sell as 50 card lots starting at $9.99

9.) 520 1967 cards - Sell stars (Mantle, Killebrew, Robinson, etc.) individually, sell the few SP's (Cash/others), individually, sell the commons in 50 card lots starting at 9.99

10.) 662 1969 near set. Sell stars individually (trimmed Mantle, all others except Ryan and Jackson), sell others in 50 card common lots. Maybe sell all leader cards as a lot? Very crisp grade

11.) 1970 - 3 different groups totaling approximately 1900 cards High Grade - pull and sell all stars individually. All others sell as 50 card lots starting at $9.99

12.) 385 1972 Cards - Strong Grade - 50 card common lots. If there are any stars I will pull them and list them, but I don't think there are many if any. It is a great group of cards for a set builder though...

13.) Autographed Card Collection - Call Auction House and leverage their expertise. this is not a focus for me, so apparently, I under value these. I will let them take these and find out what the market will bear.

14.) Autograph pictures and cuts of guys like Cool Papa Bell, Earl Averill, Babe...Herman, Gabby Harnett, Smokey Joe Wood, Leo Durocher, and a couple others that I can't remember off the top of my head - leverage with AH (just not sure which one as I know REA deals with high end stuff and this might not be of interest to them)

15.) Hubbell Auto Bat, Ball, Glove - same as above.

16.) Gomez Bat, Same

17.) I am not sure yet of the autographed photos of Mays, Mantle, and Joe DiMaggio (especially if there are questions of the authenticity despite the COA). Also autos of Dan Marino, Reggie Bush (2) , Tim Tebow, Dan Marino, Ray Lewis (2), and a few others that I can't remember off of the top of my head. I think I will just post as a BIN or BO, but not sure. (I am keeping Peyton, Marvin & Reggie - it might not have been worth 14k, but it was in my wheelhouse of Colts).

18.) Pre War - mostly cheap low end stuff. 10-12 common T206's I'll probably give to Conner as he builds his Monster. Trying to sell the felts in the BST auction. cut up strip cards. I will post on BST, but I don't think that they have much value as they are cut up. Rudy York Head's up I will sell individually. The 36(?) Goudey that has 4 on the page - Dazzy Vance - sell individually. 33/34 Goudey, give to Conner as he becomes the pre-war expert in the family.

19.) 1956 Jackie Robinson (VG) (2) Sell individually, Warren Spahn, individually, 20+ doubles sell as a lot.

19.) Berra Rookie - sell individually

20.) 48 Feller - sell individually

21.) 1954 Bowman Commons (approximately 20) Sell as Lot.

22.) 48-52 Bowman (approxmiately 20) sell as lot

22.) 1952-1955 Topps - Keep in anticipation of building those sets.

I have a bunch of assorted 10's and 20's of each year - not sure if I should consolidate those and sell as a shoebox lot over multiple years or if I should sell them as a lot on the year. Minimally, by the time I get to early 70's, I should combine the years.

24.) I have a small number 3-5 Hires Rootbeer cards. Those might be okay to sell them by themselves.

25.) Aaron auto ball and Mays auto ball - keep and put them on a shelf below my (already owned) Mays/Aaron autographed picture. I will do the display that has the ball with the card display of both of them.

26.) 56 Topps 175 or so - keep and use this as my basis to build the set. when I get off probation.

27.) Mantle/Williams auto framed picture - keep, Mantle/Mays framed auto picture - keep

28.) Berra 49/50 Pin, sell on Ebay as auction if it does not sell on B/S/T


That looks like everything. The Commons, while commons, are nice solid grade. Hopefully, the lots will bring more than the minimum - but that will be a big determining factor as to how much I get back.

Let me know if you think if the lots seem like the right size. I can do individually. It will be a grind, but if the feeling is that it will be value worth the effort, then I will do it - I just anticipate a bunch of unsold lots if it happens that way.


Lessons Learned/Next Steps:
1.) Breathe - assume the deal will be worse than advertised/overvalued. Don't box myself in the corner with a sight unseen commitment

2.) Corallary to #1. If I get there (in the unlikely event an opportunity like this happens again), and it is not as imagined or advertised, change scope, shape of money, cherry pick if allowed, walk if necessary.

3.) Get Conner to work on using the new scanner and make it a project with the two of us.

4.) Thank my lucky stars for my dear wife and treat her to a nice dinner.



I will start separating out lots in the near term as I get time. Then, in a few weeks/months, I will begin posting. I think that I will post them slowly - i.e especially the 70's as I don't want to lose track of which lot I posted and send the wrong one. I think that I will put the Red Man's up later rather than sooner, as if it proves to be more profitable than I think it will, I would love to keep these and the 70 Bowman's - but more than likely they will go up.


So that is the plan. I am thinking clearly and grateful for the Net54 board members. I have only been here since February and I have learned so much. The haze is lifting today and I will sleep well tonight for the first time in a week.

Thank You

[drcy]

removed

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And who can blame you. What a train wreck.

+1

Yes, I know. Dumb decision on my part.

[Orioles1954]

This is just such a strange thread. My only advice is not to get too attached to these pieces of cardboard with pictures of baseball players who 99% of the world doesn't know anyway. Oh sure it's a neat hobby that so many of us enjoy, but when it causes such a rush and frenzy of emotion I seriously think it's time to call it a day. Just a FYI, I have sold my collection and started over several times and have never regretted it.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

This is just such a strange thread. My only advice is not to get too attached to these pieces of cardboard with pictures of baseball players who 99% of the world doesn't know anyway. Oh sure it's a neat hobby that so many of us enjoy, but when it causes such a rush and frenzy of emotion I seriously think it's time to call it a day. Just a FYI, I have sold my collection and started over several times and have never regretted it.

We can end the thread. I was hoping not to come off as a train wreck. I didn't want this to be a strange thread. It has been helpful and cathartic - and I will always appreciate the advice offered.

After I get through selling this stuff, I will take a break and stop as you recommended. When on, I will go back to lurker status and just read and learn.

[Louieman]

I'm a pup in this pound of dogs we call net54, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. But man, Kevin, if you look at the soul-exposing intensity of your first post, is your most recent post (the one with the new plan) any less intense or raw or emotional? I don't think so, not at all, even if you're convinced you have a clear informed mind about this now.

I'd go back to what the 2nd poster said, and just calm down. Do nothing. It's been a whopping 5 hrs since you poured your heart out onto this forum and strayed from selling the whole lot. Any new plan you come up with should be able to stand the test of time if it's really legit. If I were in your shoes, I'd do nothing involving this decision for at least a week.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

Thanks for the feedback. This is some great advice. I think the most frustrating thing was just how stupid I was. This wasn't something where I got robbed (in the literal sense). My wife didn't want me to take the trip for this reason and I said "trust me". She did and I did this. This want something where I got conned with counterfeits. I saw the stuff. I knew it was light but despite that I still rolled out 146 100 dollar bills.

I said trust me, I've got this. And I was a total doofus. I was the guy that I have made fun of. I am an educated, pragmatic guy. I see downside and risk in everything and my risk meter broke. When I came to, it hit me hard. It was like I had a 5 day out of body experience. I didn't sleep. My adrenaline pumped and now I am crashing.

The guy was really nice. He thought he was giving me a great deal. I wish he would have taken one of the other calls and got a reality check but what is done is done. He had a wife and a small child and they were trying to get enough for a down payment. He didn't want to sell. His wife was forcing him to. He was somewhat of a simpleton. He had trouble with your/you're, to/too, there/their. In my head, I thought that he was just unaware of his value. I was going to capitalize on the fact that I had better information. God has a sense of humor as I sure look like the simpleton in the situation

In speaking with my wife, we came to am agreement. Perhaps this was God working through both of us. He was praying for a blessing and was willing to sacrifice his collection. God answered his prayers through me while reminding me to check my pride and arrogance at the door and to keep my day job. Coincidentally(?), the flight was almost cancelled on Wednesday morning. There was a mechanical issue and a 2 hour delay. At first they said that it was not going to leave until 11 which wouldn't allow me to make my return flight. He provided an out for me, but I was blinded by visions of this collection and the riches it would bring.

All I wanted was some 56 commons. Then I got this grand idea that I would sell off the rest and use the white. meat to build out the rest of the sets. I had been waiting on 54-56 and was fired up. Over the next 18 months, I was going to get my PSA 6 Clemente, Aaron, Banks, Koufax etcetera. Now, I get to tap the breaks. But, 14 grand would have bought nice mid grade sets of all three. Not very smart.

In the end, it is about 1% of net worth, 10% of liquid cash and half of my savings. It does not change the game but it is out of character and that is why I am kicking myself the most.

Take care and thanks - you have saved me the money on the therapy session and I need to save up 14,600 so I can start collecting again ��

Thanks for your letter, Kevin! I have reached a point where I am pretty much content with my collection as it is. But your letter is a reminder of what CAN happen when you don't see the big picture.

I remember how it all started for me - how I listed a raw T206 Christy Mathewson White Cap on Yahoo! Auctions of all things! That was back in 1999. It was the last of my vintage cards at the time as I had sold off the rest thinking that my interest in the hobby was gone for good. The knuckleheads on Yahoo! thought it was a fake because it looked so nice, so it went for only $165 even though it probably would have graded as a 4-5 . . . it was that nice. Well that sale just ticked me off because I had originally paid $300 for the card and thought I would at least get my money back on it. I had already been ripped off a few times by some of the Yahoos and the $165 sale of that great Christy Mathewson was the last straw!

The anger I felt was, I'm afraid, passion buried deep down inside. And it spawned a new desire to get back into collecting - maybe just to get even and then some! So I began to collect again, although for the most part I took a different direction. Whereas my previous collection consisted of mostly '50s HOFers and that Matty, my focus shifted to mostly '60s HOFers and pre-war HOFers. I now have graded Hall of Fame players from every decade, 1900s-1970s. I do have a several vintage sets and subsets I've assembled as well.

Eric Liddell, the great Olympic runner said, "I feel God's pleasure when I run." In some sense I feel that way about my collection as well, that it is pleasing to God in one sense - that it validates what God reveals about the human condition. By that I mean that if we feel an insatiable ongoing desire to collect, it only validates the fact that we are all made of the same stuff - immortal stuff, that is. And that lack of complete satisfaction exists precisely because we have been created to be at least somewhat discontent and unfulfilled until we enter into God's eternal kingdom forever. In the mean time we need to maintain a healthy perspective and balance on collecting so that it does not dominate our lives and our time and our MONEY!

You obviously have a great wife; mine would have killed me over a huge deal going south like that. The only way I justify my collection is by telling her that it's an investment that is only going to appreciate. I'm in the minority, but I'll weigh in and say that your situation was probably a wake-up call from the Lord. Not that it's time for you to stop collecting all together, but perhaps it's time to restore some balance and perspective, and give this little hobby a much lower priority in your life.

[ZenPop]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Ricki

It seems to me (if you've followed this thread from the beginning) that you could have a bit of empathy for what Kevin is going through. You're out NOTHING. ...and NOTHING is promised to you. Kevin had a horrible experience and spoke about it through his heart. He asked for and got advice (really good advice, IMO) from this board of caring experts. He followed that advice. There's no need to get snippy about it and compound his misery.

Kevin: It seems like you've got a good plan. Hang in there and all the best going forward! Cheers!

[Ladder7]

Keven, Although you knew it wasn't a worthy investment, you'd honored your commitment. That speaks volumes of your character... For making a hasty business choice, welcome to the club. Moral of the story, And this is not to be shared outside of here. Though we know for certain we're shrewd, clever and cunning. On our best day, women are way smarter.

Best of luck to you.

[ibuysportsephemera]

One other thing Kevin...I have been selling on eBay since the late 1990's and have watched the many changes. Many years ago, auctions on eBay were the way to maximize your sales. Not every auction was a winner but if you put up enough similar items a few great bidding wars could carry the whole group. NOT ANYMORE. I can tell you for certain that on the memorabilia side you will do much better with fixed price items. If you put a reasonable BIN price you can do much better than starting items at $9.99 at auction. The key is having patience and not putting unrealistic museum pricing on the cards. I don't know if this pertains to cards as much (maybe another experienced card dealer can jump in on this). Just my 2¢ and I hope that you wiggle out of this without too much loss. BTW it looks like there is quite a lot of material in this purchase and on the face looks like you might do OK (but I am not a card guy so what do I
know )?

Jeff

[Jacker_ Cracks]

Originally Posted by ZenPop

It seems to me (if you've followed this thread from the beginning) that you could have a bit of empathy for what Kevin is going through. You're out NOTHING. ...and NOTHING is promised to you. Kevin had a horrible experience and spoke about it through his heart. He asked for and got advice (really good advice, IMO) from this board of caring experts. He followed that advice. There's no need to get snippy about it and compound his misery.

Kevin: It seems like you've got a good plan. Hang in there and all the best going forward! Cheers!

Exactly. Well said!

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by drcy

You hastily put up the lots in the wrong state of mind under duress, then when people pointed out you should wait and better plan before selling the stuff you had to make a decision one way or the other. Don't feel bad about it. I'm not ordinarily for ending auctions early, but you should be given a hard time under the situation.

I just wanted to stay thanks again. Hopefully the roller coaster is over and the grind begins. I am seeing clearly, smiling more, making every attempt going forward to be less dramatic and more even keel - but I will be the first to admit that is a lifelong struggle.

Out of curiosity this morning I counted up the HOF auto cards.
There are 43 deceased HOFers including 12 on the vintage card
Highlights include a 56 signed Ted Williams in lower grade. Wife suggested I keep that for the 56 set but I would love to figure out the value and trade for a higher grade slabbed 56 Williams but not sure of the trade value

There is a 65 signed Hunter Rookie, 58 Mathews 53 Kiner, a 51 red back Feller as well 12 total Killebrew signed cards - most of them on modern issues. There are reprints of Hubbell, Spahn, Rizzuto, Kiner. There are also 5 modern Tony Gwynn Cards.

In addition there are 47 cards signed by living HOFers including a 62 and 66 Perry, 64 Giant Brooks Robinson, 67 Frank Robinson, Ripken, Schmidt, Henderson, Carew and a few others.

Yet to be catalogued include 2 Griffey Jrs, Bo Jackson, a very nice grade 71 Steve Garvey, 53 and 67 Joe Nuxhalls, Don Mattingly, 71 Tommy John, and enough Bert Campaneris' to cover family members for multiple generations (20ish).

Challenge now will be ascribing value on these as there not a ton of comps (if any).

So, thank you again for your guidance. The auction was at 50 bucks and who knows where it would have gone with 13 cards pictured off of a camera with bad lighting.

No hurry as I am going to let it breath a bit - just wanted to point out what was there versus what was listed in the posting.

[bobbyw8469]

If I were you, I would get familiar with some grading companies. You would be able to get some of the money back, but you might have to spend a little more on top of the $14,000 you already spent to do it.

[drcy]

One thing you should do right now is to verify that the Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Williams, Hubbell et al autographs are authentic. If they aren't that would be more than a valid reason (legally and ethically) to get your money back or at least a large refund. And any refund would should be a reflection of the exorbitant price you paid.

For 13K, at the very least the autographs had better be genuine.

[Exhibitman]

One suggestion on the autographs. Try Jim Stinson on the autograph thread. He buys collections and has been very fair with me. It would save you the trouble and hassles of finding an auctioneer.

[vthobby]

Kevin,

I have a horror story of mine that brings up bad memories and ill feelings to this day, I was part of a HUGE "find" in the 1980s of 1957-58 Topps Hoops that were still in the original stand up 1 penny vending machines! Never taken out!!!! There was no Beckett at the time so I put a classified ad in SCD for the 2 and one half NM/MT sets that I had and I made about $1000 which to me at the time was BIG money! I know for a fact that almost every high grade card out there came from my "find" that I basically gave away!

Not quite the same exact vein as your story but the point is the same......we all truly make mistakes and if someone says they have never made one then...well.....they are fibbing! Some cost us money both ways (on what we bought or what we let get away) so we are all in a brotherhood of sadness sometimes.

Yours hurts because it is so recent and is a lot of $$$ and you put a lot of effort and time into your journey but time will heal the wounds. SELL the Arizona stuff. Get it out of your system so to speak and out of your sight. take the loss and move on.

My advice may sound contrarian as I describe my pain about my blunder even to this day but I say it with a bit of humor as I can look back now over 25 years or so and say "what a dummy I was!!!!!"

I guess its part of the healing....I don't know!

Good luck in your future pursuits and hang in there.

Peace, Mik

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Kevin,



I have a horror story of mine that brings up bad memories and ill feelings to this day, I was part of a HUGE "find" in the 1980s of 1957-58 Topps Hoops that were still in the original stand up 1 penny vending machines! Never taken out!!!! There was no Beckett at the time so I put a classified ad in SCD for the 2 and one half NM/MT sets that I had and I made about $1000 which to me at the time was BIG money! I know for a fact that almost every high grade card out there came from my "find" that I basically gave away!



Not quite the same exact vein as your story but the point is the same......we all truly make mistakes and if someone says they have never made one then...well.....they are fibbing! Some cost us money both ways (on what we bought or what we let get away) so we are all in a brotherhood of sadness sometimes.



Yours hurts because it is so recent and is a lot of $$$ and you put a lot of effort and time into your journey but time will heal the wounds. SELL the Arizona stuff. Get it out of your system so to speak and out of your sight. take the loss and move on.



My advice may sound contrarian as I describe my pain about my blunder even to this day but I say it with a bit of humor as I can look back now over 25 years or so and say "what a dummy I was!!!!!"



I guess its part of the healing....I don't know!



Good luck in your future pursuits and hang in there.



Peace, Mik

So, let me get this straight: you bought a collection, sold it in a hurry, and regret it. Yet, you're advising Kevin to do the same thing?

[Exhibitman]

Hey Mik if you've been in the hobby long enough your horror story is the same as many of ours. It was a good deal at the time but 25 years later you realize you sold out way too early. I've been there too. I traded away a whole box of FB H and BK cards for some baseball cards when the other sports were afterthoughts. Had no idea they would soar to the heights they have. Whaddayagonnado?

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So, let me get this straight: you bought a collection, sold it in a hurry, and regret it. Yet, you're advising Kevin to do the same thing?

Daryl,

He KNOWS what he has is not worth what he paid. On the contrary, I had a collection that had no "history" or pricing that I could find that was reliable......(I was in high school at the time). He spent a lot of money on stuff he can look up easily and realizes he has made a mistake.

Not exactly the same situation.

Mike

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Hey Mik if you've been in the hobby long enough your horror story is the same as many of ours. It was a good deal at the time but 25 years later you realize you sold out way too early. I've been there too. I traded away a whole box of FB H and BK cards for some baseball cards when the other sports were afterthoughts. Had no idea they would soar to the heights they have. Whaddayagonnado?

Well said Adam,

take care, Mike

[kailes2872]

I wanted to respond in this original thread as I finally cleared out the last of the Phoenix purchase - nearly 6 months from the date.

I can say, with 100% certainty that it has been an adventure with many lessons learned.

In my original calculations of the deal, I thought that I might have $2,000 in total value. That was an underestimation. I lost a bunch, but not nearly as much as I had originally thought that I would.

The original purchase was $14,600. I spent another $178 to finish out the 1970 Topps set to have a better value to sell - so the net cost was $14,778.

In the end, I got back a little over half from a gross perspective - $7,897.64. I paid a little over 300 in postage and supplies. Ebay, Paypal, and AH fees were a bit over $600. I had another $250+ in travel fees in the original trip as well as a trip to Ohio. So the net was somewhere around $7,000 recouped.

In addition, I kept a nice starter lot of '50 Bowmans that I calculated at $800. I kept a lower grade lot of 47 '53 Bowmans ($400) and am in the process of slowly building both sets as cards and deals become available.

I kept autographed baseballs of Hank Aaron and Willie Mays and have a nice display in the basement of the card/ball combos.

I kept a nice batch of autographed pictures - highlighted by Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Peyton & Roethlisberger together, Dan Marino, 2 Nolan Ryan autographed photos (including the Ventura picture). I also kept a nice Mantle/Mays and Mantle Williams auto picture that I was told were counterfeit - so I have ascribed no value to those - only a picture with grafitti on it.

Of course, the desire for a '56 set was what started all of it and I did pick up a pretty good sized '56 lot that I am now 17 cards away from completing. Ironically, the reason that I pursued this lot versus others is because it had several HOFers in the lot - Koufax, Berra, Robinson (2x), Mays, Ford, Williams and several others. However, nearly all of the HOFers were lower grade and I have replaced nearly all of them with PSA 6 examples. There was a value somewhere between $600-$800 for the cards in this lot.


Finally, I kept a small pre-war binder that had a dozen or so T206 low grade commons as well as 33 Goudey's, 34 Goudey's, Sports Kings, 39 Play Balls. There were multiple Heinie Manush's, a 33 Gabby Harnett, 39 Joe Cronin, Rudy York, and a few other notables. All were lower grade to mid-grade at best and no high end HOFers, only the lower tier guys. But, I did not have any pre-war and now I do. It probably has a little bit of value, but given the condition, not a ton.

Every single lot lost money.
My binder of pre-war cards and higher-end autograph cards cost $1,500. By my count, I got back $1,085 but had $137 in expenses - so this lot cost me $552. As mentioned above, I still have the T206's, the Goudey's, Sports Kings and Play Balls, but it does not add up to $552. I somewhat regret selling the PSA A Cobb as it got less than $300 on Ebay and after fees, was a net of less than $250. However, it had clipped corners and was in rough shape. I will get a nice PSA 3-4 example at some point, but I probably should have just held onto that one until I did.

The binder of older autographs and memorbilia was $500 If I calculated correctly, I got $328 back with another $60 in expenses, so I lost $232. This was a classic example of buying something that I had no idea how to value and paying the price.

The biggest money loser was the Assorted lot of card from 1940-1970 The cost of this lot was $2,110 When it was described to me, it felt like this had some really good stuff. However, when I got it and went through it, I found that the 48 Bowman Berra and Feller cards had pin holes. The '58 Mantle was just okay, the '57 Williams didn't fetch much, and many of the older commons were in wholesale, junk condition. I only got $659 from this lot with another $79 in expenses, so I lost $1,531. I did keep the 47 '53 Bowman Colors (including Musial, Rizzuto, Hodges, and Fox in lower grade), so there was some value there of $300 or so, but this was painful. I really learned a lesson about condition with this lot.

Surprisingly, the lot of autographed cards did almost as well as any of them. I had $1,100 into these and got back $1,059 with $175 in expenses - so a loss of $216 - but way beyond where I thought I would be. I consigned these to Heritage as well as some of the higher end ones. Mark Anderson on this board was fantastic to work with and I exceeded my estimates on my lots. I had no idea that there was a market for these autographed cards - 80% of them lower end guys from the 80's - but there was and they did a great job of marketing them.

I lost a bunch on the Carl Hubbell lot The cost of this lot was $1,090. It had the Hubbell bat, ball and modern glove from '86 as well as a Lefty Gomez signed bat. Both bats were broken. The lot also contained the Aaron and Mays balls which I kept. These netted $280 after expenses, so I lost $810 - or said another way, bought the most expensive Mays and Aaron balls that will ever be sold.

Autographed pictures I got destroyed on this lot. It was $1500 and had a really nice framed autographed picture of Mantle/Williams and Mantle/Mays. It also had autographed pictures of DiMaggio, Mays, and Mantle. I showed them to a board member as I was actually excited to hang those on my basement walls. He informed me that they all looked couterfeit - even though they had COA's. (They were not from JSA or PSA). This was pretty soul crushing. I reached back out to the seller and asked for some money back on these and he refused. He told me that they were sold with Certs and he would not take them back. I have framed all of them and hung them on my walls. They look really nice as pictures with graffitti on them. In this lot was also some random autographed photos (mostly NFL) that did check out. I sold a few of them and was able to recoup a net of about $190. Between this lot and the 1940-1970's lot is where I took the biggest hair cut.

I actually did okay on most of the post war card lots I lost money on all of them but it wasn't the 4 figure losses I had in some of the ones above.

I took a couple hundred dollar beating on the '66's because it was lower condition and had to be auctioned as such. That lot had a Mantle, a Mays, Jenkins, Sutton, Koufax, and a few others - but they were in Poor/Fair condition. It was a classic case of someone putting a price tag on them based upon Beckett value and not taking condition into account. I foolishly bought them and took the hit. I also lost nearly $400 on the '67 lot as the market for mid-grade low number commons isn't good and it doesn't work trying to sell them individually. All the rest of the losses were pretty minor, surprisingly.


I met some really great people on this board I had folks checking in on how the grind was going. They offered fantastic advice, motivation, and support. These were people who I had no interactio with prior to this purchase, but, they were legitimately concerned for me and provided cheerleading from the sidelines.

I had some great interactions with guys like Rob Bessette, Nate Mack, Jimi Vintage, David James, Eric Matthews, Tom Boblitt, Mike (Bocabirdman), Pastor Chris, Drew Ecback (another '56 set collector!), Dennis Ballou, Christian Augustus, Jake Elwell, and many many others that I am forgetting but were really helpful through the process.

I don't wish my ineptitude on anyone - and with your acumen, you probably don't have to worry about it - but for a few grand to make so many great friends and contacts in the hobby, it was nearly worth it.


So, six months later, I have cleaned out nearly all of that inventory. I have a near compelte '56 set and last week bought 199 of the 206 '55's and 248 of the '250 '54's. I have my eyes on a '54 Aaron this week and am looking to track down '55 Clemente and Koufax. By the Robert Morris show in May, I will have all three sets complete and I will begin working on completing the '50 and '53 Bowman. My '56 set is really nice as all of the 34 HOFers will be slabbed at least PSA 6 by the time I am done. Ironically, had I just did a BIN on a very nice set of '56's, and bought the '55's and '54's in August, I would have probably been in the same exact spot. However, I would have had about 200 less trips to the post office and would have missed out on the fun of standing in line in the morning and getting to know Joe the postman so well.

Finally, I have learned that I have no desire to be on the seller side of the desk. I am a collector. I like to buy cards and build sets. I buy high and sell low. I don't negotiate well as I value the relationship too much and bring too much emotion to the transaction. In the poker game of card collecting, I am the rake. As long as I know this, I should be OK. I just need to stay keen to my collecting focus, and continue to collect for the joy of it.


Thanks to all of those who helped on this ride.

[vthobby]

Kevin,
Since I was with you since the 2nd day of your post, I figured to weigh in now at the end. What a journey. Filled with lessons, new friends, new cardboard, and stories! Sorry you could not get more out of the cards but you gave it the 'ole college try so to speak.

Good luck on your current missions and take care,

Peace, Mike

[iwantitiwinit]

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

I wrote off a few thousand dollar baseball card loss and ironically got audited that same year. I missed one small stock sale legitimately and had to pay a little but the baseball card loss write off was fine. I just showed where I bought and sold it. No questions.

[Tabe]

I would consider going back to the seller again on the autographed photos. The fact that they have a COA means nothing. That protects his purchase when he got them - not yours. By selling them, he's warranting that they're legit. They're not, so he's liable for them.

[Econteachert205]

Kevin, your patience paid off. You made the best of the situation and kept some good stuff. It was interesting following the journey.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I would send the signed pics into PSA and see if by chance they're real

[conor912]

I have not read any of the other responses, but I'm sure there is some great advice in there. If you sell now, you will regret it. Chill and take the year off. Pay back savings, then revisit selling. There have been many shitty situations I have gotten myself into over the years, and you know what? I can't think of one off hand....what I do remember are many of the even stupider knee-jerk reactions I had to those situations. Live and learn.

[gnpaden]

I just read through this thread and have definitely been there, but in different context. About a year ago, I just went nuts on busting wax (cases) and spent close to $5k...and maybe got $800-$1000 in return and I lost it. I went home got my safety deposit key, emptied it and went to LCS to sell my entire collection, which consists of many rare MJ inserts from 90's, MJ rookie and large quantity of vintage from 1955-1959. The LCS owner said, "take your cards home, think about it, and call me in a week"...I put my cards back in the bank and stopped buying wax at that point. We all learn as we do, almost a trial by fire effect. I enjoyed reading your journey and you have an amazing collection!

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

Thanks for the head's up. I just filed this past weekend and sent everything off. I called my tax guy to see if there was something that I could do after the fact. He told me that he wouldn't do a schedule C since I have gainful emplyoment, but that I could do a schedule D capital loss of an investment. I can take losses (or offset gains) up to 3k per year until the losses are accounted for. It will take 3 years, but it will be found money in the process.

Thanks for the tip. I am going to go buy a card today with that found money!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I haven't read through every post, but my comments to the original poster is that if you lost $6K, in the big picture some people spend that much for one course in college and really don't learn anything - but learned something that will stay with you the rest of your life as a positive lesson. Also, you are a stand-up guy for honoring your word - and you probably could of legally backed-out on the deal if the guy did over-estimate the value of the cards. I wish you and your wife the best.

[glchen]

That's great hearing that you didn't lose as much as you expected. It's always a learning experience. Even now there are so many times that I lost money, it's not even funny. Recently, I saw a card at a major auction house with back damage described as paper loss. I looked at the somewhat small scan, and I thought it looked like scrapbook residue on the card which could be soaked off, and not paper loss. I didn't want to ask the auction house if it really were paper loss because I didn't want to lose a possibly great deal on a card. I won the card, and sure enough there was scrapbook residue on the card, ..... but also paper loss.... I recently sold the card off for something like a $400 loss. Sometimes you get what you deserve, but it's another lesson learned!