Most diffcult Hall of Famer?

[Bruinsfan94]

Sorry if this has been discussed a lot, but couldn't find it in the archives ( Which I'm terrible at navigating).

Which Hall of Famers are most difficult or impossible to find a card (or something that could be considered a card) from their playing days?

[glchen]

Most negro leaguers (e.g. Josh Gibson). Most early pioneers / executives / umpires. Some early managers (e.g., Frank Selee).

[53Browns]

I agree with Gary. Likely negro leaguers. There's probably another issue(s) but I have only ever seen Josh Gibson on the 50-51 Toleteros. I'm not counting all of the modern day tribute cards to him.

[glynparson]

is as tough or tougher than some of the negro leaguers for playing era items.

[drcy]

Not a HOFer, but there is a Peck & Snyder of the first superstar James Creighton, and I believe that's it. I don't recall even seeing the card for auction.

[Bruinsfan94]

I would assume that the list would be almost 100% 19th century or Negro leagues?

[drcy]

If you said rookie card, you'd get some 20th century players.

I'm sure there are some modern HOFer managers where playing days cards are tough. Obviously folks such as Sparky Anderson and Tommy Lasorda didn't have stellar playing careers.

[Kenny Cole]

Depends on what you are looking for. There are photos and the Toleteros of Gibson but no card from when he played. Pete Hill has three known cards from when he played. Selee has one from when he managed. Willie Foster is reputed to have one but I've only seen it on an uncut sheet. Lots of the early19th century HOFers can be found on a CDV or photo but don't have a period card per se. Many of the negro leaguers can be found on rppcs, which are themselves rare, or photos, which are also pretty rare, but don't have any period cards. Off the top of my head that would include Rube Foster, Judy Johnson, Turkey Stearnes, Mule Suttles, Jud Wilson, Sol White, Cum Posey, Effa Manley, Willie Wells, Cool Papa Bell, Bullet Rogan, Buck Leonard, Louis Santop, Frank Grant, J.R. wilkinson, Alex Pompez, Ben Taylor and Joe Williams.

[Jobu]

I don't have an answer on the second part, but for your search difficulties try typing the following into the address bar of your browser:

search site www.net54baseball.com

then follow it with a space and then your search terms. Don't forget to use " " for exact matches and all of the other Boolean operators that search engines provide.

Originally Posted by Bruinsfan94

Sorry if this has been discussed a lot, but couldn't find it in the archives ( Which I'm terrible at navigating).

[brianp-beme]

I will approach this question from a narrowed perspective, because it is within the following guidelines that I have always collected, which is based upon availability of pre-War2 cards.

When I set my self-imposed guidelines, I eliminated all players whose careers were mostly in the 19th century, due to expense. I also eliminated almost all of the executives, broadcasters, etc. due to the lack of availability. Also due to the lack of availability I removed all of the Negro League players. What remains are 20th century HOF players whose careers were mostly before World War 2. The following are the ones I always considered tougher to track down Pre-WW2 cards due to the player being in fewer popular sets during their playing/managing careers.

Big Names:

Honus Wagner - in a decent amount of sets, but less frequently seen because of his absence in almost all the tobacco issues

Eddie Plank - not in that many sets, and incredibly tough in the most popular (T206)

Lou Gehrig - in some more commonly issued earlier 1930's sets, but still not as many as you would think based upon his status


Others:

Willie Keeler: 1910 era cards at the end of his career

Jimmy Collins: in fewer sets than Keeler

Jake Beckley: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Elmer Flick: in fewer sets than Keeler

Hugh Duffy: at end of playing career during 1910 era

Joe Kelley: at end of playing career

George Davis: not in many sets

Joe McGinnity: at end of career in 1910

Addie Joss: untimely death in 1911

Jack Chesbro: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Gabby Hartnett: in E120, and 1933 Goudey, otherwise surprisingly not in many of the prominent 30's issues (other Goudey, Diamond Star, Play Ball)

Ross Youngs: short career, mostly featured in strip sets

Casey Stengel: not in many of the common sets

Wilbert Robinson: surprisingly in MORE sets than expected

Stan Coveleskie: career falls in the 1917-1932 'dead zone' card era

Bill Southworth: seems to be overlooked in most sets

Charles Comiskey: executive, but featured in prominent sets like Cracker Jack and Sporting News

Branch Rickey: fortunately featured in Cracker Jacks and V100 sets

Bill McKechnie: in limited sets

Ducky Medwick: missing from early 30's sets, and most Goudey issues

Luke Appling: mostly mid to late 30's sets

Billy Herman: besides 33 Goudey, not in many sets

Fred Lindstrom: overlooked in most 30's sets

Al Lopez: not in many sets

Dizzy Dean: short career cut short his card appearances


Brian

[Donscards]

I have to say Jim Thorpe

[rats60]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I will approach this question from a narrowed perspective, because it is within the following guidelines that I have always collected, which is based upon availability of pre-War2 cards.

When I set my self-imposed guidelines, I eliminated all players whose careers were mostly in the 19th century, due to expense. I also eliminated almost all of the executives, broadcasters, etc. due to the lack of availability. Also due to the lack of availability I removed all of the Negro League players. What remains are 20th century HOF players whose careers were mostly before World War 2. The following are the ones I always considered tougher to track down Pre-WW2 cards due to the player being in fewer popular sets during their playing/managing careers.

Big Names:

Honus Wagner - in a decent amount of sets, but less frequently seen because of his absence in almost all the tobacco issues

Eddie Plank - not in that many sets, and incredibly tough in the most popular (T206)

Lou Gehrig - in some more commonly issued earlier 1930's sets, but still not as many as you would think based upon his status


Others:

Willie Keeler: 1910 era cards at the end of his career

Jimmy Collins: in fewer sets than Keeler

Jake Beckley: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Elmer Flick: in fewer sets than Keeler

Hugh Duffy: at end of playing career during 1910 era

Joe Kelley: at end of playing career

George Davis: not in many sets

Joe McGinnity: at end of career in 1910

Addie Joss: untimely death in 1911

Jack Chesbro: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Gabby Hartnett: in E120, and 1933 Goudey, otherwise surprisingly not in many of the prominent 30's issues (other Goudey, Diamond Star, Play Ball)

Ross Youngs: short career, mostly featured in strip sets

Casey Stengel: not in many of the common sets

Wilbert Robinson: surprisingly in MORE sets than expected

Stan Coveleskie: career falls in the 1917-1932 'dead zone' card era

Bill Southworth: seems to be overlooked in most sets

Charles Comiskey: executive, but featured in prominent sets like Cracker Jack and Sporting News

Branch Rickey: fortunately featured in Cracker Jacks and V100 sets

Bill McKechnie: in limited sets

Ducky Medwick: missing from early 30's sets, and most Goudey issues

Luke Appling: mostly mid to late 30's sets

Billy Herman: besides 33 Goudey, not in many sets

Fred Lindstrom: overlooked in most 30's sets

Al Lopez: not in many sets

Dizzy Dean: short career cut short his card appearances


Brian

3 guys you missed, Grover Cleveland Alexander, George Sisler and Harry Heilmann. They all fall between the t- sets and Goudey sets. I found they were tougher than any of the Hofers in T206 except Wagner and Plank or Hofers in Goudey or other 30's gum sets.

[brianp-beme]

Alexander, Sisler and Heilmann are definitely not as easy as some, as their careers fell in between the T206 and Goudey time frames, but they are pictured in plenty of other period sets, many of them commonly seen, like the E120 and E121 American Caramel issues, Sporting News, and W514, and Alexander even has the Cracker Jack cards. I count 15 or more for each Alexander and Sisler, and about a dozen for Heilmann.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Donscards

I have to say Jim Thorpe

He isn't a HOF'er....Love his few cards though

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Leon

He isn't a HOF'er....Love his few cards though

He's in several HOFs...just not baseball.

[Exhibitman]

1922 Exhibit



For many Negro League players, the Laughlin/Fleer issues from the 1970s are the first actual card appearances.

[bcbgcbrcb]

If you had to pick one as the single toughest to find anything career contemporary, I would go with William Hulbert. Morgan Bulkeley would be right there too, anything political would be post-baseball career. As mentioned previously, a couple of other extreme toughies would be Candy Cummings and Frank Grant.

[h2oya311]

and don't forget Jesse Burkett. There aren't many contemporary "traditional" Burkett cards around, which is why his material always sell for a premium.

I think the options available for Burkett, excluding team postcards and cabinets and the like, are the 1893 Just So (one example known), the 1898 Cameo Pepsin Gum Pin, the 1902-11 W600 Sporting Life Cabinets, the 1909 T204 Ramly, and the 1921 Koester Bread. All of these are rare issues.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Good pick-up, Derek. Burkett is likely the single toughest HOF'er amongst those selected as "Players".

[Matt]

In terms of greatness of the player contrasted with toughness of an issue, for my money, Josh Gibson takes the cake.
I filled that hole with this scorecard from the 1942 Negro League World Series which has his photo covering one side. It's an official issue from his playing days, though obviously not a card. I was happy to nab one where the crease isn't going through his nose.

(apologies for the glare from the slab)

From X Card Collection

[Shoebox]

Cool program!

Originally Posted by Matt

In terms of greatness of the player contrasted with toughness of an issue, for my money, Josh Gibson takes the cake.
I filled that ole with this scorecard from the 1942 Negro League World Series which has his photo covering one side. It's an official issue from his playing days, though obviously not a card. I was happy to nab one where the crease isn't going through his nose.

(apologies for the glare from the slab)

[Bruinsfan94]

Great Piece!

[BBB]

Originally Posted by rats60

3 guys you missed, Grover Cleveland Alexander, George Sisler and Harry Heilmann. They all fall between the t- sets and Goudey sets. I found they were tougher than any of the Hofers in T206 except Wagner and Plank or Hofers in Goudey or other 30's gum sets.

Beat me to it! Sister and Alexander are huge names with few issues. Both had long careers and yet not easy to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[leaflover]

How about Harry Hooper?

[Leon]

Good analysis....I personally include Postcards and cdvs as cards but not everyone does. When this subject came up I immediately thought of Selee....

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Depends on what you are looking for. There are photos and the Toleteros of Gibson but no card from when he played. Pete Hill has three known cards from when he played. Selee has one from when he managed. Willie Foster is reputed to have one but I've only seen it on an uncut sheet. Lots of the early19th century HOFers can be found on a CDV or photo but don't have a period card per se. Many of the negro leaguers can be found on rppcs, which are themselves rare, or photos, which are also pretty rare, but don't have any period cards. Off the top of my head that would include Rube Foster, Judy Johnson, Turkey Stearnes, Mule Suttles, Jud Wilson, Sol White, Cum Posey, Effa Manley, Willie Wells, Cool Papa Bell, Bullet Rogan, Buck Leonard, Louis Santop, Frank Grant, J.R. wilkinson, Alex Pompez, Ben Taylor and Joe Williams.