8K for an altered 51B Mantle?

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.goodwinandco.com/1951_Bow...-LOT31610.aspx

I don't get it, unless perhaps someone thinks one of the grading services will miss whatever the alteration is on the next go-round?

[Rookiemonster]

I think because it's a good looking card . A lot of time you see a altered card but it's still rough that card looks pristine.

[felada]

Would be nice if the description described the alteration.

[dstudeba]

That is a gorgeous card, does anyone know what the alteration is?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.goodwinandco.com/1951_Bow...-LOT31610.aspx

I don't get it, unless perhaps someone thinks one of the grading services will miss whatever the alteration is on the next go-round?

With a few submissions it might be a windfall!!

[Jobu]

The top border looks a little wavy to me, perhaps it is trimmed? (And perhaps someone thinks they can "fix" it?)

[atx840]

"Encapsulated PSA Authentic (Altered). This is a 100% real example of one of the preeminent cards in the hobby has had white painted on all four borders, the black key-line as well as his nameplate have color added. One or two corners appear to have been partially built up to an apparent excellent-plus level to match others."

http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19...a/7085-80503.s

[CMIZ5290]

$8k is just absolutely crazy for this card, unbelievable...

[Jobu]

Reading is good, huh Chris? I guess I could have tried that if only I had known where to look!

Originally Posted by atx840

"Encapsulated PSA Authentic (Altered). This is a 100% real example of one of the preeminent cards in the hobby has had white painted on all four borders, the black key-line as well as his nameplate have color added. One or two corners appear to have been partially built up to an apparent excellent-plus level to match others."

http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19...a/7085-80503.s

[Exhibitman]

Is it definitely the same card, crossed over (perhaps to hide its origins)?

Looking at the Goodwin scans I assumed it was probably trimmed to center it or perhaps had a touch up. Would it sell for as much if there was a full description of the alterations as appeared in Heritage?

[Joe Hunter]

Went for $2400 in HA auction.

[begsu1013]

I'd go w/ trimmed as well. but add a pinch of sanding/filing to that top edge/right corner, mix a dash of crack outs with a generous portion of resubs and on any particular day or relationship, this $8K card could end up w/ $75K price tag.

sad, but ultimately true.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Is it definitely the same card, crossed over (perhaps to hide its origins)?

Looking at the Goodwin scans I assumed it was probably trimmed to center it or perhaps had a touch up. Would it sell for as much if there was a full description of the alterations as appeared in Heritage?

Authentic cards are a whole different animal than PSA 1s.......the eye appeal is paid for on a much greater scale then PSA 1s..and I not surprised to see authentics go up to psa 3-4 range in terms of market value ...

basically on psa 1s you focus on what is good on the card...on authentics a lot of times they point out to what is bad on the card because a lot of times everything looks really good otherwise

[MattyC]

Perhaps a collector just got frustrated with how unappealing almost every numerically graded example of this card looks, and based on his resources sprung for one he liked. I've seen AUTHs of certain cards spike very high in the past, in those rare instances when the sheer eye appeal is fantastic.

One normally has to pay six digits for a PSA/SGC 8 of that card, to see one that presents as handsomely.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To me an altered card is essentially worthless. I suspect the buyer has something in mind and did not buy it for the aesthetics alone.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To me an altered card is essentially worthless. I suspect the buyer has something in mind and did not buy it for the aesthetics alone.

That is the way I look at it as well. Imo, leave the card alone and also imo, if you are altering it, you are trying to hide something.

Personally, I can never see me buying an altered card, even if, for some reason, it has been graded by a reputable company.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by irv

That is the way I look at it as well. Imo, leave the card alone and also imo, if you are altering it, you are trying to hide something.

Personally, I can never see me buying an altered card, even if, for some reason, it has been graded by a reputable company.

Problem is youll never know youve bought an altered card.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To me an altered card is essentially worthless. I suspect the buyer has something in mind and did not buy it for the aesthetics alone.

I agree with both of your assertions. If it gets submitted enough and perhaps by adding rougher edges, it will likely receive a numerical grade.

[MattyC]

That's one heck of a gamble for the hypothetical person seeking to get into a numerical grade, betting 8k that all that recoloring and corner rebuilding will get past PSA or SGC or BVG-- on a high profile card they are sure to scrutinize with extra care. Also add in the repeated grading fee for a card of that stated value. Newly graded to the hobby dead centered, high grade Mantle rookies are also rather conspicuous cards, which would add another layer of difficulty. Clearly the alterations were done in a manner that made them detectable already by both TPGs. Time will tell. Wish I could find one like that unaltered!

[CW]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Would it sell for as much if there was a full description of the alterations as appeared in Heritage?

That's a great question.

If we are going to start placing high values on known altered cards (and obviously this is the case based on this Mantle sale), then it's important that the list of alterations follows the card each time it is sold.

Alterations like those done on the Mantle are similar to what is accepted in the realms of movie posters, rare books, comic books, and paintings, just to name a few. Those hobbies also use the protocol of full disclosure when selling an altered item.

I hope I'm wrong, but I'd agree with Matt that the extent of alterations on that card would hopefully never get a numerical grade from PSA or SGC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Goodwin failed miserably and realized three times the price, if it's the same card. I guess it depends how you define failure, doesn't it.

[jmb]

Originally Posted by felada

Would be nice if the description described the alteration.

Exactly. Not a single word about the item condition. Probably trimmed.
It does look very nice though.

[Exhibitman]

Also depends on what you collect. If you are into rare and/or obscure issues are you going to pass up a card that may not have been seen in any form for years or even at all just because it has an A?

[CW]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Goodwin failed miserably and realized three times the price, if it's the same card. I guess it depends how you define failure, doesn't it.

Sorry, Peter... I edited my post before I saw your reply. I removed my comment about Goodwin "failing miserably" after I realized that Goodwin may have simply been in the dark on the alterations.

But I agree with your point. While they may have failed to disclose info ( if, in fact, they knew about the list of alterations), they definitely didn't fail to realize a good price for the consignor.

I also wonder if they knew about the alterations, but only offered the information if someone emailed them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even if he did know, he made the right call in not disclosing, it appears.

[4815162342]

I wonder if Leon should rename the main board: Net54baseball Vintage (Pre-WWII) Baseball Cards, New Member Introductions, & Mickey Mantle.

Kidding!