Poll: response to recent PWCC revelations

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That is a sentencing issue. You really should quit.

I did realize that.
On the other hand, I think if you keep going at the pace you are, you are going to over take me in number of posts. LOL

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by griffon512

jeff/peter, do you think psa's actions (or lack thereof) were negligent? do you a judge/jury would find them negligent (either criminal or civil)?

If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I did realize that.
On the other hand, I think if you keep going at the pace you are, you are going to over take me in number of posts. LOL

If you make incorrect statements about the law, I feel obliged to respond. LOL.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you make incorrect statements about the law, I feel obliged to respond. LOL.

Dragnet 54, “Just the facts, ma’am”

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I were claiming PSA misgraded a card I bought, I would just bring a claim on their guarantee, which is an easier case in the nature of strict liability, I'm not sure why I would go to negligence although I'd have to think about it further.

Right. Their negligence triggers their guarantee.

PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Right. Their negligence triggers their guarantee.

PSA has always banked on people not willing to sue them due to the relatively small amount in dispute when they misgrade a card. So they refuse to honor the guarantee for any reason they think will fit, and rarely pay out.

There doesn't even need to be underlying negligence. Maybe the doctoring was so good they couldn't have detected it using ordinary care; but you can now prove it was doctored through before and after photos. Still liable. The guarantee has no exceptions.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There doesn't even need to be underlying negligence. Maybe the doctoring was so good they couldn't have detected it using ordinary care; but you can now prove it was doctored through before and after photos. Still liable. The guarantee has no exceptions.

I've heard that a lot -- that the doctoring is so good that PSA can't detect it. But this is basically the main thing they're being paid to do: to detect alterations. Maybe if they spent more than 10 seconds grading a card they'd be able to see that the card is short. Or that a blacklight would expose added color. Or that a look with a loupe would show that one edge is worn differently than the other three. I don't buy the argument that the doctoring is so good to easily fool PSA. I think PSA is so bad that the doctoring doesn't have to be so good.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I understand where you're going, but the prosecution really screwed up that case.

Not that there was much fun about that case, but watching Vincent Bugliosi's head nearly explode during interviews was, well I don't know the word for it, but it was something.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I've heard that a lot -- that the doctoring is so good that PSA can't detect it. But this is basically the main thing they're being paid to do: to detect alterations. Maybe if they spent more than 10 seconds grading a card they'd be able to see that the card is short. Or that a blacklight would expose added color. Or that a look with a loupe would show that one edge is worn differently than the other three. I don't buy the argument that the doctoring is so good to easily fool PSA. I think PSA is so bad that the doctoring doesn't have to be so good.

I only meant to point out the scope of the guarantee. It doesn't matter if they were negligent or legitimately fooled.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by leaflover

Scott,

Years ago I remember reading in the LA Times that Lasorda's Italian Restaurant, in Pasadena, on Fairoaks was shut down for 2 weeks because the rat urine exceeded the allowable levels. I was shocked that there isn't "zero tolerance".

There is no statute on "Rat Urine" there are rules about some things found IN rat urine (Leptospirosis etc.) and I'll admit I don't know what levels are "acceptable" but it's entirely possible that "allowable levels" are zero in the case of dangerous pathogens that may be found in rat urine and that's just the wording they use. I don't really feel like battering my way through CA restaurant health code to find out, but having worked in kitchens I assure you there is no test for rat urine. It's a myth that gets told about soda cans too.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I watched a lot of the trial as well and I was astonished at the glove episode which gave Johnny Cochran his famous line in closing. What a colossal mistake that the veteran prosecutor Marcia Clark never in a million years should have allowed to happen. And the decision not to put in evidence of the attempted flight was also, to me, inexplicable.

A glove that has been wet and dried out and an uncooperative witness? What could possibly go wrong? I always wondered why they didn't buy the identical glove and have someone with demonstrably larger hands (or maybe even a cast of OJ's hands, but that could be tricky too as you really need to move your hand to put on a glove) put it on. I mean OJ "struggling" to put on that glove was such bad theater.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Excerpt from a 2008 email from Brent in an exchange about why he was selling cards for Gary.

"I'm not ignorant, and I know what Gary does for a living..."

The scent of Bill Mastro hangs in the air.

[Republicaninmass]

With all the time people spend in court and money on attorneys, you'd think they would know the law a bit better.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Leon you raise a great point. A large percentage of respondents weren't using PWCC prior and so while their opinion matters for this poll it has no bearing on the future impact of PWCC.

I have been wearing Nike Air Max since I was 17. For the last 23 years I have only worn this type of athletic shoe. They have raised the price over time and the last pair I purchased was over $200. Nike in my view has the best styling and performance you can find and for that I am a loyal customer. Last year they did the unthinkable and ran adds with Colin Kaepernick. I despise that guy. How on earth could Nike alienate such a large percentage of their customer base in favor of making a political statement? In mass there was outrage on social media. Their stock dropped on the news. Videos of long time customers burning their products and swearing never to buy from them again. Here we sit a year later and I have never seen the add once, their stock is back to right where it was, you never hear anyone saying they are done with Nike, and my next pair of shoes will still be Air Max.

I shave six to seven days a week. I use the Gillette five blade and Edge shave gel. There have been loads of new products come onto the market. Cheaper blades, fancy shave creams and I still use the same formula that works for me. Gillette releases an add focusing on Toxic Masculinity. WTF??? Their vision is for all men to be beta male soy boys after for years showcasing studs that get chicks. Outrage ensues. Social media is exploding. Their idiotic video is shared countless times and the response was so bad they deleted thousands of comments from it on Youtube. My wife even said Dave I don't want Gillette products in our home. Here I sit as I type this and once more all of this has gone away. I still use the Gillette five blade and will continue to because in my view it is the best razor blade on the market.

This saga will pass in time. Collecting is an individual choice where people put their hard earned money into collectibles and to completely boycott the seller won't last. I am confident plenty of people saying this today will eventually turn and purchase from them once more. The same people consigning to PWCC could simply send the cards to Probstein. Are you going to boycott all consignment sellers? Of course not. Many of us search daily for specific cards or ones that could enhance our collections and I am not going to give up on that just because there is the appearance of wrong doing. It is laughable to think that all PWCC auctioned cards are bad. Reading comments on various boards that all high grade cards are suspect. Give me a break. I have self subbed a ton. Many others have too.

You're equating possible criminal behavior with social issue marketing with which you disagree.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

What if someone starts digging into heritage, rea, goldin, etc and finds before and after scans for a few hundred cards? Should we stop buying from all of them? Should we automatically assume the AH is at fault?

YES!!!!!!, You are very dopey, mcdope dope

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Yoda

The scent of Bill Mastro hangs in the air.

You mean, Brent Mastro... The sneakier, new improved version

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

A glove that has been wet and dried out and an uncooperative witness? What could possibly go wrong? I always wondered why they didn't buy the identical glove and have someone with demonstrably larger hands (or maybe even a cast of OJ's hands, but that could be tricky too as you really need to move your hand to put on a glove) put it on. I mean OJ "struggling" to put on that glove was such bad theater.

The funny thing is, to me watching that fiasco..... Those gloves were MONSTROUS and they fit him like a glove. Take off those stupid latex gloves underneath. The ugly ass shoes fit perfect too.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

QED. He knew what Gary did, trust me. Was he alone? No, not at all, many people did and do the same thing, to some extent for Gary and for many other card doctors. But that doesn't excuse Brent. He knowingly sold altered cards for money. He knew it was wrong. It isn't any more complicated than that.

Spot on!

It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date.

I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers.

Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards?

Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity.
They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.

[Dpeck100]

[QUOTE=Aquarian Sports Cards;1888471]You're equating possible criminal behavior with social issue marketing with which you disagree.[/QUOTe


The only issue here for most people is that they have done something that may tarnish their brand. PWCC has 44,648 completed listings on the most recent EBAY search. They are just like Nike and just like Gillette and sell products to consumers. They are the premium brand just like these two are in the sports collectables market.

There are a lot of sellers that would like to see harm done to them because it would once more open up business opportunities for them that at the present no longer exist.

When you think of the best cards offered on EBAY they are the first name that comes to mind. I think just like the two examples I gave that there are a lot of upset people that will over time move on.

There is a lot of value in a brand. If they have done un repairable damage to that brand we will find out in the coming months. I would bet they haven't because the products they offer are what consumers are looking for.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I watched a lot of the trial as well and I was astonished at the glove episode which gave Johnny Cochran his famous line in closing. What a colossal mistake that the veteran prosecutor Marcia Clark never in a million years should have allowed to happen. And the decision not to put in evidence of the attempted flight was also, to me, inexplicable.

FYI, Marcia Clark did not want him to try on the gloves. She wanted to have him try them on in chambers without the latex gloves underneath or not at all. It was Chris Darden who made the surprise move after F U Bailey got into his head and said to him "If you don't ask for him to try on the gloves, we will. The scenario has been played out in the ESPN's made in America.

Jesse could have been on the OJ Jury because he could not see the MOUNTAIN of evidence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wonder if the great lyricist Frank Burkett can do a version of Tainted Love called Tainted Stuff?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

Spot on!

It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date.

I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers.

Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards?

Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity.
They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.

See my signature line.

[SMPEP]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Certainly true that social desirability effects can significantly sway poll results, but I can attest that in the case of the example you raised, much of it comes down to ability (not that I ever threatened to leave the country if a certain election didn't turn out as I'd hoped, but right after one particular election, and with no vacation plans, my wife and I did go to the trouble of getting passports for all of our kids, including a toddler, and looking for jobs and houses in New Zealand; it just turned out we didn't get any of the jobs that would have allowed us to buy any of the houses, or we'd be there now). Anyway, anyone should be capable of not consigning to or buying from a particular AH.

Actually both of my next door neighbors did leave when our current President was elected. In the case of one of them ... it was a loss to our country ... or at least to the number of beautiful and rich women in my neighborhood.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by irv

Spot on!

It is mind boggling, confusing, shocking and a whole host of other descriptions that people are still willing to purchase, and in essence, support PWCC after what has been exposed about them to date.

I guess I will never understand the rationality behind it? To me, its like continuing to purchase something from a dept store or another business that is well known to sell suspect merchandise or known to rip off its customers.

Also, like I stated before, with PWCC being a top selling entity. Does anyone honestly think they would be as well known/popular as they are if they didn't sell these supposed high end PSA 8, 9's, and 10 cards?

Take away all the doctored/known cards that have been discovered to date and what do you have? Nothing. They would be nothing more than an average ebay selling entity.
They got to that status/popularity by being dishonest, deceitful, crooked and corrupt and if anyone can't see that, then you simply have the blinders on or lack the mental aptitude to grasp that fact.

Hi Irv, I think most don't believe what they are posting. Just covering their ASS-ets.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I wonder if the great lyricist Frank Burkett can do a version of Tainted Love called Tainted Stuff?

Tainted Stuff

PWCC I've got to run away
I've got to stay away
From the stuff you drive into the heart of me
The love we share has ended in dispair.
Since you've lost your light to Gary you turn - can you sleep at night
Once I ran to you
now I'll run from you
This tainted stuff you've given
supported by your tenets, don't justify
Take my tears and refund, refund my
Tainted stuff, tainted stuff
Now I know I've got to run away

I've got Blowout to show me the way.
You now really want them to just shut up
To make things right you need someone to lock you up
And you think the hobby needs your stuff, but
tainted stuff is now on display
The jokers will run to you
filling your pockets is the only fun to you
But this tainted stuff you're peddling
Will get the authorities meddling
Take my name off your list
Of tainted stuff, tainted stuff
Me and my friends are really pissed.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sing it accompanying yourself on sax and post the video.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not just Gary. There are lots of guys doing this work and have been for decades. Sigh. And yes many AHs take their cards. I had an extraordinary conversation with one of them a few years back, it was quite the wake up call to what really goes on.

Peter, let me start by saying that you and I are on the same team. I share your extreme distaste for the BS in this hobby. My eyes have been opened here, and I'm adjusting my collecting accordingly.

But you keep alluding to this well of knowledge about other card doctors and AHs that might be complicit as well.

My question is - why not share that knowledge? Tell us about that conversation. Give us the details.

With all due respect, I don't know how 100s of snarky posts help advance the hobby at this point. Many of us would benefit by hearing what you know vs. just what you think about the topic at hand. The latter has been well established, but I know many would benefit from your knowledge as it might help others avoid potential landmines. I say that without any sarcasm at all.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sing it accompanying yourself on sax and post the video.

I want to be the guy who just plays the "DANH DANH" on the keyboard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sam I have shared what I know with law enforcement. They read the boards and any time they want to talk to me again they know how to reach me. I'm not outing names on a public message board at this point. Candidly, it carries risks and when I see person after person posting they are going to buy anyway I don't see much point. Most of these guys aren't selling directly anyhow, so outing the names would not help anyone avoid them. My point is simply to convey that the recent revelations are not isolated and people who care need to be very diligent.

The gist of the conversation I referenced was that that AH regularly took consignments of cards from card doctors, and that many of his fellow AHs did the same, and that any collector who truly cared about not having altered cards needed to be very careful buying high grade cards out of AHs. I think that's probably true nowadays for mid grade significant cards with high eye appeal too, I'm sorry to say. It affects a whole lot of us.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sam I have shared what I know with law enforcement. They read the boards and any time they want to talk to me again they know how to reach me. I'm not outing names on a public message board at this point. Candidly, it carries risks and when I see person after person posting they are going to buy anyway I don't see much point. Most of these guys aren't selling directly anyhow, so outing the names would not help anyone avoid them. My point is simply to convey that the recent revelations are not isolated and people who care need to be very diligent.

The gist of the conversation I referenced was that that AH regularly took consignments of cards from card doctors, and that many of his fellow AHs did the same, and that any collector who truly cared about not having altered cards needed to be very careful buying high grade cards out of AHs. I think that's probably true nowadays for mid grade significant cards with high eye appeal too, I'm sorry to say. It affects a whole lot of us.

Yes... mid-grade is impacted perhaps the most. There is a new flood of exposed cards that has not even been discussed here...

Anyone who voted for the 3rd option in the poll really needs to read the Mantle thread on Blowout. If it’s too long for you, just review pages 110 - 116 which are the most recent. These card doctors can even repair actual tears in the card and get them past PSA. The scope of this is far wider than PSA portrays, and likely much more prevalent than many people here are aware.

vvvvv VIEW PAGES 110 - 116 BY CLICKING LINK vvvvv

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=116

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sam I have shared what I know with law enforcement. They read the boards and any time they want to talk to me again they know how to reach me. I'm not outing names on a public message board at this point. Candidly, it carries risks and when I see person after person posting they are going to buy anyway I don't see much point. Most of these guys aren't selling directly anyhow, so outing the names would not help anyone avoid them. My point is simply to convey that the recent revelations are not isolated and people who care need to be very diligent.

The gist of the conversation I referenced was that that AH regularly took consignments of cards from card doctors, and that many of his fellow AHs did the same, and that any collector who truly cared about not having altered cards needed to be very careful buying high grade cards out of AHs. I think that's probably true nowadays for mid grade significant cards with high eye appeal too, I'm sorry to say. It affects a whole lot of us.

Thanks for the response. I do appreciate you sharing what you know with people who might be able to do something. Let's hope they do.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Tainted Stuff

PWCC I've got to run away
I've got to stay away
From the stuff you drive into the heart of me
The love we share has ended in dispair.
Since you've lost your light to Gary you turn - can you sleep at night
Once I ran to you
now I'll run from you
This tainted stuff you've given
supported by your tenets, don't justify
Take my tears and refund, refund my
Tainted stuff, tainted stuff
Now I know I've got to run away

I've got Blowout to show me the way.
You now really want them to just shut up
To make things right you need someone to lock you up
And you think the hobby needs your stuff, but
tainted stuff is now on display
The jokers will run to you
filling your pockets is the only fun to you
But this tainted stuff you're peddling
Will get the authorities meddling
Take my name off your list
Of tainted stuff, tainted stuff
Me and my friends are really pissed.

Darn it, Frank - I think I stained an oblique laughing at that!


/

[HRBAKER]

Bottom line it seems is that a large portion of the hobby doesn't know and will likely never know about most of this. That leaves a smaller portion in which a significant amount of folks care less about bad acts/actors and being cheated than not getting what they want.

As long as the flip is "the coin of the realm" ain't much going to change in my opinion.

[sportscardtheory]

This was from early in the thread, but I just laughed out loud when someone said they needed "video evidence" to believe PWCC was involved in this completely obvious fraud. Hilarious. Try changing that guy's mind on ANYTHING. He's dug in like a tick.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

This was from early in the thread, but I just laughed out loud when someone said they needed "video evidence" to believe PWCC was involved in this completely obvious fraud. Hilarious. Try changing that guy's mind on ANYTHING. He's dug in like a tick.

Yeah, I’m beginning to think there’s nothing more we can do. Of the people polled, over half now say they’ll still buy from PWCC, as opposed to those who’s minds have changed. And that’s within a forum devoted specifically to advanced collectors... must be a far greater percentage when you incorporate collectors who aren’t even aware of net54 or BO.

I suppose no amount of overwhelming evidence will sway them. I was completely unaware of the number of people who are in this just for money. A real eye-opener.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Darn it, Frank - I think I stained an oblique laughing at that!


/

PWCC can send it to Moser to have it removed

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Yeah, I’m beginning to think there’s nothing more we can do. Of the people polled, over half now say they’ll still buy from PWCC, as opposed to those who’s minds have changed. And that’s within a forum devoted specifically to advanced collectors... must be a far greater percentage when you incorporate collectors who aren’t even aware of net54 or BO.

I suppose no amount of overwhelming evidence will sway them. I was completely unaware of the number of people who are in this just for money. A real eye-opener.

It is not about money its about supply.

I just checked my EBAY history and the last purchase I made through PWCC was September 26 and I spent $20.80 before shipping. Their shipping by the way is miles ahead of almost all EBAY participants. These two cards I won well below my max bids.

Prior to that I won a card on July 26th for $90. Guess what there hasn't been one listed since. We are approaching a year.

I could live without all three of these cards but in June they listed a card I really wanted. I am not going to just let someone else win that card I want because the internet thinks I should boycott a seller.

You will notice all that have said they will continue to purchase from them haven't once said those that wouldn't are stupid. The same can't be said for the opposite.

I am betting on human behavior and I believe the supply will continue to attract the bids.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

PWCC can send it to Moser to have it removed

While I definitely 'fat-fingered' that, it's actually funnier that way.

At my age, I actually can 'stain' things when laughing...and that's no laughing matter.


You're missing a lot in life if you can't laugh at yourself.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is not about money its about supply.

I just checked my EBAY history and the last purchase I made through PWCC was September 26 and I spent $20.80 before shipping. Their shipping by the way is miles ahead of almost all EBAY participants. These two cards I won well below my max bids.

Prior to that I won a card on July 26th for $90. Guess what there hasn't been one listed since. We are approaching a year.

I could live without all three of these cards but in June they listed a card I really wanted. I am not going to just let someone else win that card I want because the internet thinks I should boycott a seller.

You will notice all that have said they will continue to purchase from them haven't once said those that wouldn't are stupid. The same can't be said for the opposite.

I am betting on human behavior and I believe the supply will continue to attract the bids.

You do you. Just don't cry to anyone when it burns you. They sell altered cards. Caught red-handed. Most collectors don't like altered cards. You can't say squat if/when it affects your collection negatively. I have probably spent thousands with PWCC, which means I probably have some altered cards in my collection and so do you. Never getting a penny again. You can do whatever you want.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

You do you. Just don't cry to anyone when it burns you. They sell altered cards. Caught red-handed. Most collectors don't like altered cards. You can't say squat if/when it affects your collection negatively. I have probably spent thousands with PWCC, which means I probably have some altered cards in my collection and so do you. Never getting a penny again. You can do whatever you want.

So are you going to boycott Probstein?

Many of the people who send cards to PWCC use him too.

[Dpeck100]

If you do a search by PSA on EBAY by highest price 20 of the top 25 cards with bids being auctioned off right now are through PWCC.

For collectors to simply boycott them isn't going to be easy.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

So are you going to boycott Probstein?

Many of the people who send cards to PWCC use him too.

I'm boycotting PWCC. Probstein has nothing to do with PWCC.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

So are you going to boycott Probstein?

Many of the people who send cards to PWCC use him too.

I know right?

Funny how the Blow out detectives haven't found any cards linked to him

edited maybe one or two bought, none sold I believe

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

If you do a search by PSA on EBAY by highest price 20 of the top 25 cards with bids being auctioned off right now are through PWCC.

For collectors to simply boycott them isn't going to be easy.

It's easy for me. I see their listings, I move along. I spend my money elsewhere. If that's hard for you or anyone else, that's a personal issue.

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I know right?

Funny how the Blow out detectives haven't found any cards linked to him

edited maybe one or two bought, none sold I believe

If you can show that Probstein has done the same crap, then show us. I know they have a shady history too, but not to this extent, to my knowledge, so far.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

If you can show that Probstein has done the same crap, then show us. I know they have a shady history too, but not to this extent, to my knowledge, so far.

I know for fact the same names that you see listed on Blowout send cards to both.

People are fooling themselves if they think that somehow they insulate themselves by avoiding PWCC.

One of the names that was listed a month or so back runs his own auctions. I was outed as someone who had made a comment about winning a card from him.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I'm boycotting PWCC. Probstein has nothing to do with PWCC.

...but, he's still DEAD to me!!!


=

[sportscardtheory]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I know for fact the same names that you see listed on Blowout send cards to both.

People are fooling themselves if they think that somehow they insulate themselves by avoiding PWCC.

One of the names that was listed a month or so back runs his own auctions. I was outed as someone who had made a comment about winning a card from him.

I can see the mountain of evidence against PWCC. You are MORE than welcome to show me reoccurring and consistent evidence from any other seller and/or consignor. I'll be waiting.

[Republicaninmass]

hmm nice t206 EPDG back bought at

Heritage

yet sold via PWCC

I wonder who paid that invoice and where it was shipped?




They must be utilizing PWCC because he gets more eyeballs not because

A. He used PWCC_auctions to bid up his own account

B. Advises people what to bid on

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

I can see the mountain of evidence against PWCC. You are MORE than welcome to show me reoccurring and consistent evidence from any other seller and/or consignor. I'll be waiting.

The reason Probstein isn't being mentioned is because PWCC stole so much of their business.

In the top 25 I pointed too only 2 are Probstein. Rewind the clock five or six years ago and he had as much if not more of the high end of the market than PWCC did.