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  #1  
Old 04-09-2018, 08:51 AM
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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Default Discussion re E Cards -- Opinions Needed

I love T206s. I love the "monstrosity" of the set, I love the players and the poses, and most of all, I love the various back advertisements. But, as much as I love T206s, and can include by extension T213, T214, and T215s, I collect other prewar cards; actually, I collect certain prewar players, and thus, collect other, non-T206 prewar cards. Lately, I have jumped headfirst into Mr. Honus Wagner Cards, which has me buying things like post cards, confectionary cards and E cards (because obviously there are few T cards of Wags). Which brings me to the point of this thread.

Below I list a number of questions. While I would appreciate feedback on each, please feel free to respond to one or two inquiries only.

1. How desirable are E cards today compared to (a) T206, (b) other T cards, and (c) compared to their desirability a decade ago?

2. It appears that the value of E cards are down substantially since 2006-2008. Is this accurate, and if so (a) why?, and (b) do you feel they have bottomed out (and will rise) or is their fall in value to continue?

3. Do you care about the various back variations on the cards, or is it all about the front pose; take for example E90, E92, E101, E102, E105 (maybe E106), etc., which all have the same fronts but many different backs, and would you pay up for a scarce front/back combo (like a Wagner blue crofts candy or a crofts cocoa)?

4. Would you agree that the E92/E101 (those listed above) front poses are more desirable than other candy/caramel issues, like E91 E93, E94, E95, E98, etc?

5. Related to question 4 -- what is the "T206" of E cards?

Thanks and cant wait to read the responses

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 04-09-2018 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Removed E103 from question 4
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2018, 08:58 AM
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ullmandds ullmandds is offline
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e90-1 is the obvious E counterpart to T206...the monster of caramel sets!

Personally...I've been off T206 for a long time now...too pedestrian for my taste. I love caramels...they are much tougher than most t206, they are much harder to find in high grade than t206...and YES YES Yes I will pay up for rare front/back combos. Esp if the front is a dots miller I need for my run.

As far as values go...I believe the best investments in vintage to be the top tier HOF'ers...like your honus wagner. Additionally, we have discussed this numerous times...the fact that most honus wagner cards are more scarce than the t206 counterpart.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:59 AM
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I am by no means an expert in E cards, but I am a serious T206 card collector who sometimes gets distracted by certain E issues. What I mean by that is I sometimes spend months or even a year or two collecting an E issue. I went through an E95 phase, a Dockman phase, and an E90-1 phase. To me the biggest difference in collectability is that the caramels are just not as liquid as the T206s. They just sit there and don't get offers very often. And if you do sell at auction, the prices realized seem to me to be much more inconsistent than T206s, which are liquid and consistent in pricing. The market for T206s is healthy and predictable.

Having said that, Wagner on Caramel cards - like Cobb - will often see pretty strong prices. So I wouldn't imagine there would be too much trouble if you wanted to resell at some point in the near future.
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Last edited by T206Collector; 04-09-2018 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:43 AM
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E103s are highly desirable, for me anyhow, disagree with you there.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-09-2018 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:03 AM
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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Peter, I have actually noticed that E103's, at least Cobbs and Wagners, etc tend to have higher prices, so perhaps you are right there. That's likely the result of the relative scarcity of E103s, as their population seems to be more in line with E105s and E92 Crofts than other cards I suggested may be less desirable, but that's a topic for another thread. Regardles, good point and noted.
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:30 AM
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darwinbulldog darwinbulldog is offline
Glenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
1. How desirable are E cards today compared to (a) T206, (b) other T cards, and (c) compared to their desirability a decade ago?

2. It appears that the value of E cards are down substantially since 2006-2008. Is this accurate, and if so (a) why?, and (b) do you feel they have bottomed out (and will rise) or is their fall in value to continue?

3. Do you care about the various back variations on the cards, or is it all about the front pose; take for example E90, E92, E101, E102, E105 (maybe E106), etc., which all have the same fronts but many different backs, and would you pay up for a scarce front/back combo (like a Wagner blue crofts candy or a crofts cocoa)?

4. Would you agree that the E92/E101 (those listed above) front poses are more desirable than other candy/caramel issues, like E91 E93, E94, E95, E98, etc?

5. Related to question 4 -- what is the "T206" of E cards?

Thanks and cant wait to read the responses
1a) not even close
1b) fairly close but generally lagging a bit behind
1c) not even close

2a) It seems to me that when the market hit its peak about a decade ago the overall emphasis on rarity compared to aesthetics and key stars was much higher than it is now.
2b) I don't expect much change over the next several years; that is, I don't particularly expect either a rebound or a continued decline.

3) Yes I care about the backs. Yes I care about the fronts. I don't care about the combo per se.

4) Mostly, but with some exceptions. I'd put E94 ahead of E92 for example.

5) E90-1, and I think that really explains why the T cards are more popular. The quality of the artwork on T206s is much greater than on E90-1s. That's true of T vs. E in general.
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  #7  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:41 AM
x2drich2000 x2drich2000 is offline
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No one cares about caramels so walk, no, run away as fast as you can

In all seriousness, Pete and I have the same feeling about T206 vs caramel.
One of the main reasons I moved on to caramels is cause they are generally much harder to find then T206. I look at this way, if you go to a big show such as Philly/White Plains/etc and $ wasn't a factor, you could probably come close to building a complete T206 set minus the big four (and probably could get at least a good lead on those as well). On the other hand, I doubt you would be able to put together any E90-E106 set and likely wouldn't even get half way unless someone was breaking a set. Over the past 3 or 4 years, I think I've found only 3 E92 nadjas (excluding the St. Louis players). Most of the time when I ask dealers at shows if they have have any caramels they look at me like I have 3 heads.

The reason you see so many more of the E92/101/102 family of sets is just due to so many different varieties having the same front compared to sets like e93/e95/e96/etc which have unique poses for each set. Thus it seems the e92 family of sets appears to be more popular. Also, the E92 Dockman is one of the easier caramel sets to complete and includes both Wagners and Mathewson which make those cards appear much more frequently than the other caramel sets.

1 other thing that I think is consistently overlooked is certain players in the E92 family are easy with one back compared to others with the same back, but with a different back, may be harder much harder. Young is a great example, compared to other E105's, his card is very easy. Same with the crofts cocoa. However, with the nadja back is harder than most other nadjas. Same thing with Davis, his blue crofts candy and nadja are not terribly difficult, but I've never seen any indication that a black crofts candy, which in general should be easier, even exists.

As far as paying up for rare backs, I absolutely will

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Current Wantlist:
E93 - Cobb
E92 Nadja - Bescher, Bridwell, Cobb, Crawford, Donovan, Doolan, Doyle (with bat), Evers, Kleinow, Lobert, Mathewson, McGraw, Tinker, Wagner (throwing), Zimmerman
W554 - Anyone with any red backstamp, Fonseca, Klein, Rommel
E/T Young Backrun - Need E90-1, E92 black Crofts Candy, E92 Dockman, E101, E105, T216 (all versions)
E92 Red Crofts - Anyone especially Barry, Shean, and Evers

Last edited by x2drich2000; 04-09-2018 at 10:42 AM.
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  #8  
Old 04-09-2018, 10:48 AM
x2drich2000 x2drich2000 is offline
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I would also add there are few of us crazies who are building rare back/master color/player back run caramel sets which drive certain color/back/player combination up to insane levels for cards that we still need.
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Current Wantlist:
E93 - Cobb
E92 Nadja - Bescher, Bridwell, Cobb, Crawford, Donovan, Doolan, Doyle (with bat), Evers, Kleinow, Lobert, Mathewson, McGraw, Tinker, Wagner (throwing), Zimmerman
W554 - Anyone with any red backstamp, Fonseca, Klein, Rommel
E/T Young Backrun - Need E90-1, E92 black Crofts Candy, E92 Dockman, E101, E105, T216 (all versions)
E92 Red Crofts - Anyone especially Barry, Shean, and Evers
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  #9  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:19 AM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is online now
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Since Caramels suck, I would be glad to buy the red batting Wagner you were showing cheap.
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  #10  
Old 04-09-2018, 11:22 AM
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Nothing wrong with these aesthetics IMO.
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