Apparent dating error in R328 Standard Catalog listing

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I just picked up the Lefty O'Doul from the U.S. Caramel set, which is listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards as a 1932 issue, but the biography back states that Lefty won the 1932 bating title and that he is 36 years old. Lefty was born March 4, 1897. For Lefty to be 36 years old as of the time the bio was written, the card had to be issued no earlier than March 5, 1933. Does anyone know whether the set was issued in series, or know of any other cards with biographical information that pegs the card issue as a 1933 issue?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I smell a new mission!

Way to go, Columbo!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

The back of the Chick Hafey card lists him as being 30 years old...

which AGAIN would mean that these cards were printed AFTER February 12, 1933.

The card also mentions his 1932 mid-season trade to Cincy.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

The back of the Babe Ruth card says that he has completed 19 season in the Majors...

which means that it was printed AFTER the 1932 season.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

The Lefty O'Doul card says on the back that he was the League's leading hitter for 1932...

so it too was obviously printed AFTER the 1932 season.

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Posted By: HW

Very interesting. I guess that we can add one more issue to the popular 1922 date of issue.

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Posted By: leon

Here we go.....Inspector Hal and team ...."this is your mission should you decide to accept it"....(if you remember those words you also collected '72 Topps).....

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

It now seems pretty obvious that this set was printed AFTER the 1932 season ended for distribution in 1933.

And even if they printed the cards in late 1932... they "added a year" to everyone's age because they knew that the cards would not be seen by the public until 1933...

so this is CLEARLY an 1933 set and should be considered as such.

How did it get a 1932 designation in the first place???

I wonder if there was some OTHER set put out in 1932 by US Caramel (Presidents Set?) that caused Burdick to assume that the baseball players was also a 1932 set?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

More evidence that the set was DEFINITELY printed in 1933:

The back of the Fred Lindstrom card (as seen in the SCD catalog) states that he was traded to Pittsburgh "at the end of the season."

That trade took place on DECEMBER 12, 1932... so the set was certainly printed a few weeks AFTER that date for sure since the type had to be set in the printing machines, etc.


Transactions:
December 12, 1932: Lindstorm was traded as part of a 3-team trade by the New York Giants to the Pittsburgh Pirates. The New York Giants sent Chick Fullis to the Philadelphia Phillies. The Pittsburgh Pirates sent Glenn Spencer to the New York Giants. The Pittsburgh Pirates sent Gus Dugas to the Philadelphia Phillies. The Philadelphia Phillies sent Kiddo Davis to the New York Giants.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

As always, I will pass this info on the Bob Lemke and let him make the change in upcoming editions of the "big book" card catalog.

Unfortunately, it may be too late for the printing of the 2006 edition.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Other changes we have passed on to Mr. Lemke in the past:


Allen & Ginters N28 - From 1888 instead of 1887

Leaf - From 1949 only and NOT 1948-49

Both "Sporting News" sets - From 1916 and NOT 1915 (change WAS made in 2005 edition)

Boston Store & Collins-McCarthy from 1917 and NOT 1916 (change WAS made in 2005 edition)

US Caramel - From 1933 and NOT 1932

E102 "Set of 25" - From at least 1909 and NOT 1908 (change WAS made in 2005 edition)

W555 - from at least 1909 and NOT from 1907 (change WAS made in 2005 edition)

Bond Bread 48 player set - From at least 1948 and NOT 1947

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Posted By: Chris Mc

I know of another set that has the wrong date associated with it. When I receive the information I will post it. Research and discovery are some of the best things about collecting cards.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Here is also some evidence that the Goodwin's "World Champs" set is from 1889 and NOT from 1888:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=153652&messageid=1113321152

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Posted By: Paul

I've never understood why this set is listed as 1932. There's the Lindstrom card that Hal mentioned. And the Al Simmons lists him with Chicago (though he's pictured with the A's on the card). This is clearly a 1933 set, though some of the pictures are from 1932 or earlier.

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Posted By: Anonymous

For some collecting applications, the year that the picture was taken is more important than the date which the set was issued.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Now, the real question is how many HOFers pictured in the 33 Goudey set are now rc's as a result of this error? Hal?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Joe Cronin
Bill Dickey
Lefty Gomez

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think a plausible explaination as to why Burdick got so many dates wrong is that the backs of cards did not interest him, as evidenced by the fact that he pasted all his cards into albums.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: identify7

Was the Goudey released before the US Caramel?

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Posted By: Bob Lemke

It is amazing that in the relatively short time this forum has been around, there have been so many major changes made to issue dates that were accepted hobby lore for decades. On the basis of your sleuthing, I will change the data base to 1933 for U.S. Caramel.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Thanks Mr. Lemke!!

Now I just need to buy up ALL of the 1941 Play Ball cards...

and then find a way to PROVE that they were actually produced in 1841!!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

BTW, does anyone realize that 1933 was a hell of a year for cards: US Caramel, Goudey 239 card set, Sport Kings, DeLong, Diamond Stars, Tattoo Orbit, Exhibits, plus a bunch more regional issues I cannot name right off the top of my head. I wonder what made it such a big year for the card makers?

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Posted By: jay behrens

And most of them originated in Boston. I think someone from one from UD or Topps bought a time machine on eBay and went back to 1933 to make baseball cards

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Somewhere in my archives I have a very interesting article on
the history of the Goudey Gum Co. And, if my recollection is
correct, the DeLong Co. and the National Chicle Co. (Diamond
Stars) are "spin-offs" by former Goudey employees in the Boston
area in the early 1930's.

I will search for it next week....Meanwhile have a safe and
happy End-of-the-Summer week end.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Why do I do all of my research...

when I should just ask TED what he REMEMBERS!!!!



He is a veritable fount of information!!

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Posted By: cmoking

Cool stuff guys. I particularly got a kick out of the new HOF RCs in the Goudey set. Not that RCs are important in that set, but still fun to know. Thanks!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Which players' cards are now "rookies" as a result of the date change?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Joe Cronin
Bill Dickey
Lefty Gomez

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I think Hal just found the answer as to why it was originally a 1932 set.Someone was hoarding R328 Bill Dickey cards and realized they would be worth more if they were his rookies.A few phone calls,some rumors spread on whatever the 1950's version of the internet is(im guessing morse code,pony express or cave drawings) and next thing you know its a 1932 set.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

What a dick(ey) that guy must have been.

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Posted By: Paul

That was funny. That's my kind of humor.