What do consignors want from an auction house?

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Posted By: Joe D.

the big difference is that you are rewarding loyalty and you are encouraging loyalty.

ongoing loyalty.


If I were an auction house... I would absoutely love if everyone had built in discounts for future auctions. Those are customer's you know will come back. And the whole thing snowballs.

For customer's who are already loyal... its a great thankyou and it reaffirms why they should be loyal.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Loyalty often goes out the window in this hobby because some cards are so rare or rarely for sale that when they come up and you "need" it you're going to go after it no matter who is selling it.

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Posted By: Darren

Honesty, integrity, loyalty

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joe- I think my customers come back. I have a good following.

And while I agree loyalty is important, Dan made an excellent point, even if it is a bit cynical: you are only as good as your stuff. If I am the nicest guy in the world but can't find good material for my auction, nobody is coming back. That's just a fact.

Edited to say "sorry Dan, I didn't mean David"

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joe- if I too may be a bit cynical for a moment: If I treated you a little rudely, perhaps insensitively, but in my next auction I had the best Matty piece you ever saw, what do you do? Deal or no deal?

I'm not advocating rudeness, and I try to be polite (most of the time) but you see what I mean.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Barry there are auction houses who I think dubious and don't even follow their auctions. It's not a matter of whether they have or have not the best Matty item ever, as I wouldn't know. Even if Coaches Corner has in their next auction a genuine Babe Ruth signed baseball with JSA/PSA/Mike Gutierrez LOAs, I wouldn't notice.

Most auction houses I follow and bid in, I don't know what's in their auction before hand or because of PR notices. I find out what's in their auction by looking through their listings, as that's what loyal customers expecting to place bids do.

In my case, it is literally true that if a seller treats me poorly I won't look at their auctions-- as there's little point in following auctions I have plan on bidding in.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I believe in doing everything I can to make a customer happy, even if I am not always 100% successful (it's tough to be right every time).

But no matter how well I treat someone, no matter how much I bend over backwards, I still better make sure I've got the stuff.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

the main reason for the many auctions is the fact that so much money is made off of both consignor and buyer. How many auctioneers really worry about how well I do ,as opposed to just how much quality items that they know will sell abundantly?

My business approach is and always will be ,1% of something is better then 0% of nothing !

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Posted By: Joe D.

cmon!

give me a believable scenario.



Dan brings up a good point as you say.
And, I am sure many bidders will follow the best items wherever they are.


But, could this be the chicken and the egg argument?


How did that 'awesome item' get there in the first place...
maybe from a loyal consignor who was given his Sloate Reward points when he was just a bidder on a common item. He remembered that you treated him fairly - and he remembered you went above and beyond by giving him a discount on the next item he purchased from you. Actually, it was hard for him to think of dealing with any other auction house because he has had repeated good experiences with you. Repeated because of your honesty and integrity. And repeated because every time he purchased one item, he had a financial reason to purchase another in the next auction. What a great auction house he said to himself. Now, he had this great Matty item to consign - and he had no question in his mind where he should send it.


And lets just say - I have my loyalty reward sitting there from Sloate... and I see an awesome item from a competitor... yes, I will bid with that competitor. I will follow that great item. But I am still going to keep an eye on building up my Sloate reward points and participating in your auctions.


Its not a ground-breaking idea, and is used in many industries... Restaurants reward frequent visitors, Airlines award frequent flyer miles, etc.


It has its drawbacks, heck - it may not be a good idea at all... but I was just trying to give an example of somthing that could be done in response to JCs #9 and yours and scotts query as to what more could be done.



Now - to your question about rudeness. There is no question in my mind! If an auction house person was disrespectful to me, and then they had the ultimate Matty item in their upcoming auction... I would not bid. Not one penny. I will definitely find another place to spend my money. The way I see it... there are definitely more cool items out there than I have money for, so I am not going to get them all. I don't need to send money to someone who treats me disrespectfully. I would pass on the item without losing one wink of sleep.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joe- you haven't seen me yet on a bad day. I can be a little ornery at times

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Posted By: leon

Most of the times an extremely rare "needed" card trumps whatever venue faults there are. You can argue all you want but that is the truth more often than not. (I know everyone on this board is above that though.....)

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Posted By: boxingcardman

It is a question of degree. Coach's Corner is a good example. They sell a lot of extremely rare autographs for small money and seem to have an endless supply of these allegedly genuine items. Many consider them to be sellers of forgeries and of such low integrity that their auction listings go right to the bottom of the birdcage. They might have a great item in there but a lot of collectors aren't going to see it because their rep is so bad. I know for a fact that I have not bid on some items from some auctioneers because of the unsavory things I'd heard about them. I'd not be so cynical as to make a blanket statement that everyone here is whorish enough to go for a card no matter who's selling it. Of course, I am

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

do not ever call Barry when he is eating , you then would refer to him as Barry "2 toed " SLoth. Just kidding Barry, couldnt resist .

Like your auction ,not too much on the menu, creates nice wars.

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Posted By: barrysloate

No problem, Dan...in fact. you're right. When I get calls during dinner I am at my grouchiest

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Posted By: Joe D.

You mean if I was an auction house and I disrespected you, maybe publicly, maybe privately (I'm talking crossing the line - not just upsetting you)... and I have an item you "need", you are going to participate in my auction?

Maybe it is stubborness, maybe it is pride... but I don't deal with people who treat me that way.

I am definitely not alone - in that I know certain collectors who have said to me... "I would never send money to so and so, because that person is a $%#@."

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Posted By: barrysloate

I suppose if somebody is that incredibly rude, going completely over the line, then just about anyone would back off and not bid. But I can't imagine too many auctioneers who could be that unbelieveably rude to a bidder (although I might be able to come up with a name or two).

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Posted By: leon

There is one person on ebay with whom I won't bid on their stuff. He jerked me around on a trimmed card. So I guess if it were bad enough I might not bid....but I have been privy to some really bad situations and folks still do business with whomever did the bad stuff....I chose my words carefully before and used a few caveats.....As I do understand everyone is different and there might be some who wouldn't bid no matter what card they needed...I was being more general.."Most" of the times the card trumps the venue...and I think that is still a correct statement from my personal recollections......regards

edited grammar

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Posted By: Joe D.

I agree barry. Very unlikely for any business person to be that rude... and completely unimaginable to believe you would be - even if I do call you during dinner.

The other part that made your hypothetical 'unbelievable', is that I already have the best Matty piece I ever saw. So if I ever see it in an auction, I would be the consignor not the bidder.




"Joe- if I too may be a bit cynical for a moment: If I treated you a little rudely, perhaps insensitively, but in my next auction I had the best Matty piece you ever saw, what do you do? Deal or no deal?"


edited grammar. probably still incorrect.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

For the life of me I don't know why people care about the buyers premium. It could be 50 percent or 75% for all I care. You have a net total price you are willing to bid--how much of it is for the item and how much goes to the buyers premium is immaterial.

What we all want from an auction house seems to be someone who will take the light creases and wrinkles out of our cards and has enough stroke that he can convince the grader to raise the grade by 1-2 levels on key items.

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Posted By: ernest reyes

Thank you for asking this question.

1. My biggest peeve with auctions are the lack of detailed photos of every item in the auction (both fronts and backs). Especially on large mixed lots. How can you sell a 19th Century lot of mixed cards and not provide detail about what's in the lot, including pics. I know for a fact that I temper my bidding on large lots if i'm unsure about everything in the lot. After all, your on the internet and there is no excuse for not having an overabundance of pics.

2. Poor descriptions. I do not mind the flowery prose that exist in catalogs. You are limited as to the amount of space, but on the internet you should provide extremely detailed descriptions of every item. Pay more attention to descriptive writing than to storytelling.

3. Reduce buyer premiums/ commissions. At the end of the day, even if the Buyer pays a premium, the Seller pays it to. Higher premiums, whether on the Buyer or Seller side, means lower prices for Sellers. All Buyers consider commissions when making their bids, so raising Buyer premiums will only reduce the Sellers funds.

http://dodgersblueheaven.blogspot.com/
http://imageevent.com/ernestreyes

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, the reason the buyer's premium is material is that bidders will bid less on items with a higher BP, thereby perhaps ultimately paying the same amount for the card that they otherwise would pay but more going to the auction house and less to the consignor.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I am looking at it as a buyer.

Also I would urge those consigners to shop around for the best offer. Not only are the auction houses willing to waive the fee on the sell side but with higher ticket items they will split the 20% commission.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim has the best idea- find the auction house that is best at spooning out creases!

I do agree that to me as a bidder the buyer's premium is irrelevant- if I am willing to spend $1000 I'll keep my bid in the $800-850 range. And I know every consignor wants more money in his pocket and less in the auction house's pocket, and that's natural. But you know what? The auction house has to make a living too. If I had to slash all the commissions I had to charge all my consignors I think at some point I would just quit the catalog altogether and do everything on ebay. Getting even a small auction together like mine takes time and costs money. Everyone may complain about Mastro raising their BP to 20%, but did you ever turn to the back page and look at their company roster? They've got forty mouths to feed!

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Posted By: boxingcardman

I actually agree with Jim. As a bidder, I too do not care what the BP is; I just factor it into the overall price of the card and bid accordingly.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i agree and disagree with Jim...

i always say no matter what the buyer's premium is (20%, 50%, whatever)...just "bid accordingly")...BUT sometimes you loose site of that and bid higher than you want to, because it is a rare card or you "have to have it"...i just overpaid for a T206 PSA 5 Carl Lundgren in huggins & scott. 2 of them sold recently on eBay for $1150-$1200 each, and i just paid $1400 with juice & shipping...i pushed it further than i planned, but i got caught up in the moment and "needed" the card...

so i can see both sides of the coin here...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Theoretically, of course the BP is of no moment to the buyer as he adjusts his bids accordingly. The amount of BP is only problematic to the consignor who is forced to give up more of the final take the auction house. That monogrammed packing tape doesn't fall from the sky, you know.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

My feeling is that a 20% (buyer's) versus 0% (consignors) premium balance is poor planning. There has to be some semblance of balance. If a consignor accepts 0% charge, he can't then complain about bidders being overcharged. He's reason why they charge bidders that amount.

My philosophy as a customer is that I should be charged for a job well done.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I'm not used to having so many people agree with me--I better rethink this one.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- you're having a banner day on the board! Keep that momentum going

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Heck...even I agree with Jim in this thread.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

As a seller, I like no or very low seller's premiums, a good client list, accurate descriptions, quick payment, and breaking down or bunching cards into lots so as to maximize sales amounts. Looking fancy with slick ads and catalogs isn't as important as accurately described lots that have sufficient information so as to interest buyers.

I think Jim is correct that the buyer's premium is of minimal consequence, it is but a factor in considering what to bid.

As a buyer it is good to bid where you have good, accurate information about the lot and you're wondering "where do they find this stuff", as a seller it is great when the auctioneer has gone around and found 3 or 4 folks that really want what you're selling and they bid it up!!

Frank.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, perhaps you'd like to celebrate this moment with, say, a song?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Sorry Jeff, but music is a violation of our personal privacy.

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Posted By: Bob

Scott-

I think it would be helpful to gain a little insight from the auctioneer's point of view as to how the auction house interacts with a potential consignor for negotiating whether an item is good enough to reduce or eliminate consignment fees. Is it a dollar threeshold? Or how many times a person consigns with you? etc...

From my own limited experience, (I have not consigned anything since the 1999 Mastrowest Auction) I have been reluctant to consign anything else, because I feel like I do not know whether my material would warrant such consideration or not.

As far as what's important to me it is customer service, customer service and customer service!!! Both before the auction (sending additional scans or answering questions) or after (change of shipping address or making special arrangements for pick up).

Thanks,
Bob

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

You know, Dan, I've always been fascinated with the law....

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

I know and once again it is ruined by a you tube video--ridiculous. This is a vintage sports card board.

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Posted By: scgaynor

Bob, that is a good question.

Value certainly plays a part and I do often give better rates to people who consign alot of material. The biggest thing though is probably how much work is involved in preparing the lots. For example Did I have to travel to pick up the material? Was a cash advance involved? How much space does it take up? Am I going to have to store it for months? What is the per lot value?

If I have to factor in a significant amount of my time, employees time, or storage space, then I have to take that into account when trying to determine how low I can go on the consignment rate. High dollar single cards will always get you the best rate!

When you do think about consigning, it is always best to pick up the phone and call whoever you decide to deal with. They should be pretty up front with you about what they are going to charge.

Scott

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Posted By: DJ

I think a catalog is very important. It has nothing to do with bidding or being on the Internet, but it's kind of like retreating to a comfortable couch with a great tasting cigar. I love to lay there and make notes. Sure if I don't win anything, I at least tried and kind of earned by catalog. I go over the catalog in the comfort of my desired position of choice and read everything like a fine book. On the Internet, you miss things I feel. Plus, I'm on the computer enough as is and I kind of get sick of "clicking".

I think the most important thing and what makes a good auction house is reputation and how I am treated. Whether buyer or consignor, I want that auction house to work out any issues that I may have. I have had issues with two auction houses over the past five years and basically said: "What would make you happy!" and you never forget something like that. If they would have said "tough s--t", that would be the end. In saying that, I want decent shipping prices and I don't want to wait forever for my items. As a collector, we are excited children and want to get out stuff yesterday.

C'mon Adam, that's not being fair. The sucker was the guy on TV I saw a few days ago (Brigandi?) who paid like $75,000 (or valued it at the time at that price...I was at a bar and read the Closed Caption) for an signed Induction Hall Of Fame Baseball from 1939 when he could have saved quite a bit of money with the one Coach's Corner just sold $383 or the sucker who bought the Ed Plank baseball in the Lelands auction of 2002 when it sold for $44,000 when they could have had this one here in Coach's Corner for $702 or the sucker who bought the recent Christy Mathewson ball for $140,000 when Coach's Corner next month....

DJ