Don't mean to bring attention to a sale, but

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Lance has a card in the B/S/T area that is a Collins T206. He lists that the card has a minor stain on back. Isn't it actually a ghost image from another card? Flip it horizontally, and it is a red B with a collar and button area for another card, but I can't make out who it is. Wish I could afford it, no matter what.

Ed

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Posted By: John

Looks like a faint wet sheet transfer of Charlie Starr.

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

my guess would be this destroys the idea of the card being printed in strips. But then again, even in sheets, it seems strange another player is resting under Collins....

Ed

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Posted By: John

I think T206’s were printed in sheets; I have very little doubt of that.

I don’t find it that strange; I would assume the sheets would have been stacked on top of one another before the cutting process. So the bottom sheet below Collins must have still been damp hence the faint ghost of Charlie Starr above.

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Posted By: Joe D.

who is cooler than john?

that was awesome detective work.

Perry Mason, MacGyver, WonkaTicket.

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Posted By: John

Joe, stop you’ll make me blush……

MacGyver would have made the Starr from a few tooth picks a stick of chewing gum and a set of jumper cables though…. so in a way he’s a lot cooler.

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Posted By: Ed McCollum

Lets say the cards where printed on a lithograph that could handle a 28" x 40" sheet, like any larger printer today. You'd plate up the press, and start. But each sheet as it came off the press would have the same players in the same position. Collins should rest on top of Collins, as long as that was the set of plates on the press. At the end of that press run, a new set of plates are placed on press, and a different run of players starts. So as the sheets come off the press, how is it that Starr was on the sheet just below Collins when he came off the press? If is were a change of plates, Starr certainly would have had enough time to dry before the sheet with Collins on it started through, and even then, what about pre-run to make sure everything was in register?

Not trying to argue, John, I have a couple cards with Piedmont over the image of the player on front, but haven't seen that many with a player image on back over the brand, so this struck me as strange.

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Posted By: John

Fair point Ed. I see 2 possibilities that could explain this all of which are wild speculation on my part, which is true for most of us as none of us have any first hand experience printing T206s.

#1. Perhaps the print shop had several printing presses in use, and the other machine was running the sheet with Starr, then it was laid on to the pile with the Collins card.

#2. Maybe that was the last run of the days printing of the Collins the plates were then changed incorporating Starr for the next run of the printing process, then the Starr sheet still wet was stacked on top of the Collins sheet.

We will never know for sure though. However the fact that we don’t have an uncut sheet does not make me think that some other process was involved with printing these cards. We have many uncut sheets from the era which represent similar style lithography printing.

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Posted By: Joe D.

A print shop can have more than one press.
So, more than one form can be run at one time and then sent to the cutter.

Also... letting a job dry before cutting (a whole day or over a weekend) is not all that uncommon even today. If you coat a job, you can cut it right away - but I don't think they coated T206s or any jobs back then. If I printed a sheet of cards without coating, I would definitely wait a day (or maybe longer) before cutting.

Some colors don't dry as quickly as others... sometimes there is a problem with a sheet from the mill where the ink doesn't soak in good... sometimes the formulation of ink can be bad.

There are a whole bunch of "sheets" reasons that would account for a different player ghost on the back of a card.



edit to say: John beat me to it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's good to have the knowledge of a professional printer on board!