1929 Becker Bros. Theatre- remnants question/poll?

[Leon]

Since there is always some controversy about what constitutes altering a card I thought this would be an interesting poll. So this card is in question and it has some paper remnants on back. They look like an easy q-tip and water situation and I think all will come off if gently rubbed that way. So, using ONLY water and a q-tip to get the remnants off what do you think?

[D. Bergin]

No different then soaking a card out of a scrapbook I would think.............and that seems to get done with regularity.

I occasionally see people throw out the caveat "As long as you tell a prospective buyer it's past history" but , I've yet to see a graded card with the qualifier "soaked out of scrapbook" plastered on the flip.

[HRBAKER]

David,

There's probably not enough room on the flip to tell alot of cards life stories, don't you think?

[teetwoohsix]

I voted to leave it alone only because aside from the altered/unaltered debate, I'd have concern of possibly creating a different type of damage/staining to the card....and I have no experience working with water and cards. From what I've learned on this board, some issues you can soak the crap out of them with no problem, and some types don't work well with water.

Clayton

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

David,

There's probably not enough room on the flip to tell alot of cards life stories, don't you think?

I guess not. Maybe they can come out with an "SKD" for soaked.

I don't think that would fly with most submitters though.

[Jaybird]

i'm all for using the Q-tip. I don't think you'll remove the stains, though. They will stay as history of what the card was glued to. I often see cards with circular glue stains and assume it was glued to a scrapbook at one time or another. The fact that it doesn't have paper remnants doesn't make me think one thing or another. On the other hand, I just bought a Tarzan bread card that was clearly pulled from a scrapbook and has a spot of paperloss. So, we have the 4 various states of scrapbook cards:

1. no evidence
2. glue but no paper
3. glue and paper
4. paperloss

It brings up another question though, what percentage of prewar cards do you think were glued into a scrapbook at one time? I'm going to throw out a guess of 10%.

Nice card by the way

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jaybird

It brings up another question though, what percentage of prewar cards do you think were glued into a scrapbook at one time? I'm going to throw out a guess of 10%.

sounds like another poll to me . And btw, I think 10% would be a little low....not a lot low but a little.....I would go maybe 15%.....

[Jaybird]

I had it at 20% and thought it was too high so changed to 10% to spur the debate and so no one would tell me I was off my rocker


SORRY IF I DERAILED the thread...

[teetwoohsix]

That's a good question Jason, I'd almost guess a little higher though....here is a card I picked up awhile back and on the back you can see a little square brownish spot.....I'm thinking it may have been "taped" into an album at one time? Not sure, bought it graded. And if that is what the square spot is, I guess SGC was ok with it.

[D. Bergin]

Looks like a stain from a stamp mount.

[rhettyeakley]

I'd do it, there will likely still be some amount of staining but those big patches of paper will be gone which makes the card display much nicer IMO.

[slidekellyslide]

Is washing your car altering it? Nope

Is painting your car altering it? Yes

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I'd do it, there will likely still be some amount of staining but those big patches of paper will be gone which makes the card display much nicer IMO.

Agree and this is exactly what I plan on. I just thought it would be interesting to see the percentages and some debate.

Very funny, Dan. How about if I paint the card?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

Very funny, Dan. How about if I paint the card?

Definitely an alteration.

[Rickyy]

I don't think its altering...but I'm too afraid to mess with it..so if it was me..I'd leave it as is..since you can still make out what's written on the back.

[Leon]

Someone mentioned we (on this board) are purists in a post in the last day or two. I would say this board is not full of purists but more full of collectors that make sense (to me), at least according to this poll. I will post a scan of the back of the card after I remove the crap that is on it with water and a Q-tip. Thanks to all who voted.

[Exhibitman]

I have a 1930s RPPC that has some back crap on it (probably from scrap book mounting) that I am in the process of removing so I can read the card back.



IMO there is nothing wrong with anything that a good conservator would do to a card--removing paper bits, deacidifying, removing a stain--so long as it doesn't damage the card itself.

Love the car analogy, BTW but I bet if I washed mine parts would fall off--the bird crap is all that's holding them on

[HTBB]

Dan, I love the car analogy. +1

[Leon]

A Q-tip and water results posted in the first post next to the other picture....

[Matthew H]

Nice job Leon! Looks ALOT better.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Is washing your car altering it? Nope

Is painting your car altering it? Yes

+1. In 1998, I'd purchased a 1960 Leaf Jim Bunning #144 card (last card in a somewhat short-printed set, due to legal difficulties with Topps, and legitimately difficult to locate in high grade) originating from a recent find, through SCD by mail. I brought it along with me to the National to get it graded, and it came back Mint 9 ST, as it had a wax mark on the back of it. I showed it to Wayne Varner, who said he could get the residual stain off, and he was right. He cracked it open, took care of the problem, and I resubmitted it and it came back an unqualified "9," a card I am still very proud to own (although I subsequently sold it to Wayne, I missed it, and bought it back from him at the higher price he was advertising it for. Good guy that he is, he offered to sell it back to me for the same price he had paid me for it, but I didn't think that was fair, and bought it back for the higher price, letting him make his well-deserved profit).

I don't look at your situation as altering the card at all.

Larry