T206 Scrapbook on Ebay

[nolemmings]

There are certainly a couple of red flags, but I think it's real. The scrapbook has clippings dating to 1932, when John McGraw left the Giants, another referencing something about Earl Averill in 1930, and a photo of a mature Babe Ruth. Pasted on the same page as the McGraw article are a couple of T206 Giants, suggesting that maybe the whole book was put together in 1932, in which case days of yore might certainly apply to cards issued 20 years prior.

What I find very telling is the trimmed m101 card of Wally Schang. These cards are pretty meticulously organized by team, and there is the Wally Schang card (the pose that appears in about a dozen sets) smack dab in the middle of several Detroit Tigers. Schang only played for the Tigers during one season--1931--and the m101 card has him on the A's. So someone ignored the card's caption, trimmed it and just randomly placed it among the Tigers? I doubt it. Seems like alot of homework for a modern-day scammer to go through on such an obscure and minor detail. BTW, the same can be said for the m101-4 Clarence Walker card, which would declare him to be on the Red Sox but which was trimmed and pasted among the St. Louis Browns, where Walker had played previously. This and the fact that there are many out of the ordinary cards (Minos and Zeenuts) leads me to buy into the seller's claim that these are real, albeit damaged cards.

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

There are certainly a couple of red flags, but I think it's real. The scrapbook has clippings dating to 1932, when John McGraw left the Giants, another referencing something about Earl Averill in 1930, and a photo of a mature Babe Ruth. Pasted on the same page as the McGraw article are a couple of T206 Giants, suggesting that maybe the whole book was put together in 1932, in which case days of yore might certainly apply to cards issued 20 years prior.

What I find very telling is the trimmed m101 card of Wally Schang. These cards are pretty meticulously organized by team, and there is the Wally Schang card (the pose that appears in about a dozen sets) smack dab in the middle of several Detroit Tigers. Schang only played for the Tigers during one season--1931--and the m101 card has him on the A's. So someone ignored the card's caption, trimmed it and just randomly placed it among the Tigers? I doubt it. Seems like alot of homework for a modern-day scammer to go through on such an obscure and minor detail. BTW, the same can be said for the m101-4 Clarence Walker card, which would declare him to be on the Red Sox but which was trimmed and pasted among the St. Louis Browns, where Walker had played previously. This and the fact that there are many out of the ordinary cards (Minos and Zeenuts) leads me to buy into the seller's claim that these are real, albeit damaged cards.

+1. I was trying to write a very similar reply last night but couldn't get the words out. You said it much better than I. Some kid put this together in the 30s which is why the tobacco cards are all creased etc. All cards have similar hack job and it's just too consistent to be a whole cloth fake.

[Cat]

Went for a healthy price.

Edited to add: If a board member got it, I would pay a healthy price for one particular card.

[danmckee]

Somebody got some killer uncataloged cards! I finished 3rd. BUMMER!

[deadballera]

some great cards for the winner !!

[ullmandds]

wow...healthy price...some great cards...and a lot of crap too!

[teetwoohsix]

I'm just wondering- if he said in his listing "I think some are Dover?", and just say a few of them were, when would those have been inserted into this book? And, would they have the same pencil writing around them?

[WillowGrove]

I'm more of a t206 only guy and I don't know the true scarcity of some of the cards listed but somethings are not right. Like the seller's feedback - too many from the same ID and too many ID's having minimal feedback. Also there looked like many bids from ID's that have very little feedback (a newbie to Ebay all of a sudden wants to spend thousand$ on vintage cards?).

lastly - and someone may have made this point earlier - why were all the cards trimmed? Isn't that a perfect way to equalize everything? Get a stack of reprints and trim away the perforations, etc.

I just don't see someone who seems like a dishonest seller to begin with, miraculously acquiring a gem of a scrapbook.

Of course the worst part is this conversation even has to take place.

I do hope it's real, and that the buyer is happy.

peter

[npa589]

I'm at work, and can't see ebay but am very curious about what the final price was. Can someone post it?!? I am too impatient to wait until I get home!

BTW - I love the discussion of this auction. I found it very early, and was greatly intrigued. Too much of a risk for me though! I too was scared off by the glare, but thought some more and thought that if the seller was intuitive enough to bend the pages on the right side, weather the book, use flat-leaded (those markings are NOT graphite) pencils that they had back in the day - than they would have been intelligent enough to eliminate the glare on many of the cards. And plus, I do know that some of those cards had some type of glossy finish.

Also, that Wagner looks 100% authentic, and not too thinned at all.

[cincicards]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"I THINK SOME ARE DOVER"

Nuf ced!

I believe the Dover comment was added after the seller was informed of this site. He obviously has no idea what the Dover reference means.

[Exhibitman]

Assuming for the sake of argument that the cards are genuine, they are so mangled that I do not see wanting to own any of them. Since I would not be happy with any of them in my collection, I would not buy the album except as a novelty for a few bucks, so $10,000 for it...I can think of a lot of other stuff I'd rather have...

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by npa589

i'm at work, and can't see ebay but am very curious about what the final price was. Can someone post it?!? I am too impatient to wait until i get home!

$10,200

[npa589]

Thank you Scott. Wow, what a price.....

[Jason]

Im looking forward to hearing more about this once the book is received and viewed by the owner.And also if any of these cards will be third party authenticated graded and come into the hobby for sale.Jason

[brianp-beme]

I am one of the believers (and lower bidders) on this auction. I felt they were authentic, based upon years of stupidly staring at similiar cards. Some of them may be skinned, which would be a bummer for the winning bidder.

Also, I don't know what to make of the unknown cards. I lean toward that they were clippings that were later colored in, so not really cards at all. It would be interesting to find out the results of their removal as well as the rest of the cards. Still way too much for this lot because of all the severe trimming.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

Wow, absolutely crazy price for that thing! Dan, I'm willing to bet those "uncataloged" cards are simply homemade, the original owner apparently had a love affair with his scissors. So many better ways (in my mind at least) to spend that kind of coin. I have a hard time thinking there is much meat left on the bone if the seller decides to break it up and soak them.
-Rhett

[John V]

Originally Posted by cincicards

I believe the Dover comment was added after the seller was informed of this site. He obviously has no idea what the Dover reference means.

Neither do I. Can someone explain? I may have missed it earlier in the thread.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by John V

Neither do I. Can someone explain? I may have missed it earlier in the thread.

Dover made books of reprint cards in the 1970-80s.

[Cat]

I thought that those cards (Cicotte, et al) were homemade as well. Perhaps even some e135 cutouts and then reglued to cardboard. If it was a scam, it was one of the most sophisticated scams I have seen. To have some highly desirable cards (even cards that are not commonly recognized) mixed in with more commonly seen stuff and then not mention those desirable cards would be exceedingly brilliant for a scammer.

[Cat]

Originally Posted by John V

Neither do I. Can someone explain? I may have missed it earlier in the thread.

They're horrible and wouldn't trick anybody on this board.

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by Cat

I thought that those cards (Cicotte, et al) were homemade as well. Perhaps even some e135 cutouts and then reglued to cardboard. If it was a scam, it was one of the most sophisticated scams I have seen. To have some highly desirable cards (even cards that are not commonly recognized) mixed in with more commonly seen stuff and then not mention those desirable cards would be exceedingly brilliant for a scammer.

That is my theory, that someone (maybe more than one someone) spent a lot of time and research to scam an unwitting collector. If my theory is correct, they didn't make out nearly as well as they had hoped and may have won their own item.
Until someone on this board (not a first time poster), shows proof that they got past the 5 day money back period, I will continue to believe that this was a well orchestrated scam. I was going to point out some other irregularities in this auction, but I didn't want to give the next scammer any more info. After all, this is where you can come to find out what not to do in a scam. It's getting f*ing ridicules!

[Cat]

If the winner wants to sell me this page, I'm interested.

[fkw]

wow, thats $8K more that I would have paid and 2X more than I thought anyone would have paid, ....... over $12 a card with many of them being 2/3rds of a whole card at best.
Besides removing the 3 Wagners, 3 Weavers and 3 Cobbs,and the chopped T212-1, E90-2, T217's and trying to get some $$ for them, I dont see many cards actually worth more than a couple $$. then you have all those homemade cards too.

Winner should keep 90% of the album intact and keep it for its history, if you try to remove these pieces of cards and flip them, Id think it would be hard to break even on this piece.

[Bridwell]

I too am shocked at the final price. Anything above $5k was a major gamble.

There are some cool uncataloged cards in there, if they are real. See Moriarty in picture in the post above. There were about 15 cards from a series I've never seen before, such as Cicotte, James, Gowdy, Adair, and others. Very cool? Can anybody identify the issue?

Maybe they were cut from a scorebook or magazine article?

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by T206DK

yes it makes perfect sense for someone to sell a massive album of rare cards from somone directly involved with MLB on Ebay for a fraction of it's real value. what a swell seller

I'm in tears laughing at this :-)

BTW - love one of his eBay negative responses with "DUKE IS A D-CK"

[dstudeba]

Please forgive my ignorance, but there are references in Frank's post and the listing to E100s and E99s. I only see one E100 and no E99s. Can someone please point out the others to me?

[hunterdutchess]

So much for needing good feedback to sell a high ticket item.

Here is the buyer: annawoogie (537)

Someone want to let them know that some of the cards might be bogus?

[ctownboy]

I don't see where annawoogie has bought or sold ANY sports related items recently. However, I did see where they bought a portable black light for $9.99.

I hope they are going to put that black light to good use on these cards....

David

[hunterdutchess]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

I don't see where annawoogie has bought or sold ANY sports related items recently. However, I did see where they bought a portable black light for $9.99.

I hope they are going to put that black light to good use on these cards....

David

It's under the black light. LOL! Looks like they bought the black light right after winning the scam book.

[NYHighlanderFan]

I was fortunate enough to acquire a similar scrapbook, but with more newspaper clippings and only T206's. Paul Fusco, whom I'm sure you all know in the hobby, was the gentleman whom I acquired it from. To this day it's still one of my most prized possessions in my collection.

However, the one thing I noticed about mine as opposed to this one is the condition of the cards. The cards in my scrapbook are in amazing condition, only that they're glued. If this was a period-assembled book, the cards might still be trimmed due to a hyper kid. But they all wouldn't look that mangled!

It's a tough call. But I love my scrapbook and I'll never destroy it to salvage the cards. And I know if I was the winner of this book, I'd leave it as/is.

[DICKTOWLE]

To all, this weekend I received a email and phone call fron the new owner who spent 10k on the scrapbook, he talked about removing the cards and also leaving them in the book. He also sent me many scans to look at- there in the middle of the album, was the JOE JACKSON ROOKIE CARD. After looking at many of the cards, most are the real deal, including the cut cards. the owner has a good group of cards and now- shoeless joe--I may or may not remove the cards, but what a fine gentleman to talk to, ALSO A GOOD PURCHASE.

If I end up removing the cards I am sure there will be cards for sale- I believe JJ cards will remain with his family. thank you Dick towle " GONE WITH THE STAIN"

[npa589]

Maybe I'm just stupid, but why would you be removing the cards? Were you just quoting him?

Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE

To all, this weekend I received a email and phone call fron the new owner who spent 10k on the scrapbook, he talked about removing the cards and also leaving them in the book. He also sent me many scans to look at- there in the middle of the album, was the JOE JACKSON ROOKIE CARD. After looking at many of the cards, most are the real deal, including the cut cards. the owner has a good group of cards and now- shoeless joe--I may or may not remove the cards, but what a fine gentleman to talk to, ALSO A GOOD PURCHASE.

If I end up removing the cards I am sure there will be cards for sale- I believe JJ cards will remain with his family. thank you Dick towle " GONE WITH THE STAIN"

[DICKTOWLE]

That is correct joe jackson rookie was in the scrapbook

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by npa589

Maybe I'm just stupid, but why would you be removing the cards? Were you just quoting him?

Dick Towle can remove cards from scrapbooks, extra paper from cards, some ink issues, etc. There has been a significant amount of discussion about the morality and efficacy of his work on this board. Whatever his technique, PSA and SGC will grade cards that have been treated by Mr. Towle. I once owned an SGC 80 T206 Donlin Batting that had been removed from a scrapbook by Mr. Towle. It was immaculate.

[shaunsteig]

Originally Posted by hunterdutchess

So much for needing good feedback to sell a high ticket item.

Here is the buyer: annawoogie (537)

Someone want to let them know that some of the cards might be bogus?

I thought Ebay hides the bidder names and only displays a few letters (eg s***g)?

[DICKTOWLE]

Originally Posted by npa589

maybe i'm just stupid, but why would you be removing the cards? Were you just quoting him?

the fine gentleman called me about the finer details of my company- all these cards would look better out of any book, now one can read the history on the back. He may decide to keep them in the book, time will tell. Thank you sir.

[npa589]

Ok. Clear! As you can see, I joined FEB 2011, that was 1 month after starting this hobby. I'm a new pup.

So, Towle is a card-removing genius - and the buyer knows him as a contact and has requested his services.

Thank you for the info!


When I get home, I might post a scan I have of an "A" graded Tinker T206. I need some opinions on the accuracy of the grade. It's either "A" or an 8.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Dick Towle can remove cards from scrapbooks, extra paper from cards, some ink issues, etc. There has been a significant amount of discussion about the morality and efficacy of his work on this board. Whatever his technique, PSA and SGC will grade cards that have been treated by Mr. Towle. I once owned an SGC 80 T206 Donlin Batting that had been removed from a scrapbook by Mr. Towle. It was immaculate.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by npa589

When I get home, I might post a scan I have of an "A" graded Tinker T206. I need some opinions on the accuracy of the grade. It's either "A" or an 8.

I would certainly encourage you to do that if you can. The amount of knowledge on this board will go a long way to helping you through such matters.

And a belated welcome to the board!

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by npa589

When I get home, I might post a scan I have of an "A" graded Tinker T206. I need some opinions on the accuracy of the grade. It's either "A" or an 8.

Odds are, if it was given an "A", it's probably an "A". But than again, the card may have just caught someone on a bad day, and catching someone on a good day may result in an 8. Bad day and Good day, are somewhat subjective in that sentence, based on which grade is more appropriate or preferred. Altering can be missed from time to time, but generally will not just be assigned without some sort of evidence to it... Basically, and A is usually an A. And an 8 may sometimes only be an A. It rarely goes the other way, without someone making a big mistake.

[Tsaiko]

Well Mr. Towle, if you're right, and I totally bow out to you when it comes to identifying cards, that would mean I was wrong

Well, there's a first time for everything, I suppose Not afraid to own up to it

Still, I would feel more comfortable with your analysis if you actually had the chance to see the collection in person.

One of the reasons I deemed this to be a fake was because I had asked the seller for at least one scan, but was ignored. Since you have some scans, you can see much better than the bidders.

When you say most are the real deal, it makes me wonder what you think aren't the real deal. Anyway a good score for the new owner and I'm sure he's in good hands as you will make his options known to him without bias.

Would he be willing to remove one card and send it in for grading?

After all, the backs can be just as interesting as the fronts with these collections.

T

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Tsaiko

I had asked the seller for at least one scan, but was ignored.

The seller ignored many emails from several members of this board. I'm not entirely convinced the book is on the up and up, but according to my wife I am wrong approximately 63-75 times a day so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

[npa589]

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...481#post894481

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I would certainly encourage you to do that if you can. The amount of knowledge on this board will go a long way to helping you through such matters.

And a belated welcome to the board!

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by DICKTOWLE

To all, this weekend I received a email and phone call fron the new owner who spent 10k on the scrapbook, he talked about removing the cards and also leaving them in the book. He also sent me many scans to look at- there in the middle of the album, was the JOE JACKSON ROOKIE CARD. After looking at many of the cards, most are the real deal, including the cut cards. the owner has a good group of cards and now- shoeless joe--I may or may not remove the cards, but what a fine gentleman to talk to, ALSO A GOOD PURCHASE.

If I end up removing the cards I am sure there will be cards for sale- I believe JJ cards will remain with his family. thank you Dick towle " GONE WITH THE STAIN"

When I first read this post earlier today, I had to go back to look through all of the pictures from the ebay auction, because I was sure I didn't remember seeing the JJ card.......then, I thought, maybe he (Dick) is refering to the scrapbook that was in REA because I knew that had the JJ in it, but the final price was a lot more than 10K,,,so- a belated wow. Hopefully for the winner everything turns out ok.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

according to my wife I am wrong approximately 63-75 times a day

Your wife and mine must have attended the same marriage classes.