Question about Ebay "Buy It Now or Best Offer" etiquette

[Luke]

Hey everyone,

I am wondering about how sellers typically use the "Buy it Now or Best Offer" option. I was just looking at T206 Walter Johnson cards and there is one company that has 8 different Portraits on ebay right now. All are PSA 1 or 2. It seems to me from looking at completed listings and other current listings over the past few weeks that the price they list as the Buy it Now price is at least double the fair market price (I don't have a subscription to VCP yet, so I could be a little bit off). So, my question is, if a company has listed a card at $380 or best offer, and I think the card is worth around $190, is it considered bad form to make an offer of like $175 or $190? I don't want to make offers that are going to be dismissed as low-ball. I didn't include the name of the company because I didn't know if that was frowned upon or not. They are a Power Seller with 100% percent positive feedback. If my question doesn't make sense, I'll be back on later and can clarify. Thanks!

Luke

[Leon]

In my opinion it is NOT bad form at all to offer 50% of an asking price, especially nowadays. Several of my last buys have been about 50% of asking prices. If I had not offered then I wouldn't have got what I wanted. Now, if the card is listed at $500, and is a $250 card, then offering $100 might not be good form....but a 50% offer off of a listing price...not a problem. regards

[ChiefBenderForever]

Offer fair price or even lower and see if they counter, you should be much more insulted by their asking price. If they don't want to sell move on to the next one. Good luck!

[Matthew H]

Depending on which VCP subscription you get, you may be able to see scans of the past sales. Quite often I will find the same card I am trying to buy. Sometimes I'll even see the seller as the high bidder. If you really want the card then take the last sale price, add calculated eBay fees and maybe 20 more dollars. Works like a charm (usually) or you could wait for another auction and possibly pay less. There are plenty of those cards at auction.

[Robextend]

I have offered half before thinking I didn't have a shot, but was surprised. Never hurts to offer what you feel is fair, that's why the option is there.

[gnaz01]

I know the person selling those T206 Johnson's, and he wouldn't take 75%-80% of Buy It Now price IMHO, so you can use that, FWIW I Guess. I have tried to purchase a few off grade T206's at about 70% of BIN and was turned down without a counter from this seller.

[JasonL]

offer what you think fair price is. If they don't bite, that's a "them" problem.

[rp12367]

I sell on e-bay quite a bit. I tend to put my Buy It Now price as what I would really like to get (in my dreams) price, and I usally put my auto accept bid at somewhere around book or current market value.

[jpaol99]

I have won several buy it now or best offers at 50-75% their asking price. I wouldn't find it offensive to through out 50%. Although most sellers won't accept 50% their asking price, one in ten might.
I dont think I would offer much less than 50% for a few reasons. First there price is obviously more than double what I would pay. So this usually means they think they can actually get that much and decreases the chance they will come down. I usually dont bother with those kind of people.
It also depends how long the auction has been up. I find that sometimes when there is only a day or two left on their 30 day auction, sellers are usually more apt to take lower offers.

Justin

[paulcarek]

I've had good luck with making offers even when there isn't a "or Best Offer" option. I recently picked up a '52 Bowman Mantle that way. I offered VCP average for the grade (it was listed about 50% higher than that), and the seller accepted.

[Rob D.]

I would add this: If your best offer gets declined by a seller and you really want the card, don't be afraid to go back a month (or two) later and make the same offer.

A week before the National a seller had a T206 overpriced at $1,900. I offered just over $1,000 and received one of those automatic replies turning down my offer, meaning he didn't even consider it.

Last week he accepted an offer and sold the card for $1,000.

So my advice is bookmark the cards and let sellers know whether you're still interested. Maybe make the offer at the end of a month, when the rent is coming due. Who knows what some of these guys are thinking?

[iggyman]

Don't ever be timid about making a "best offer!" They are accepted, all the time, in all walks of life................just how do you think I got married???

By the way, a bit O/T but here is a classic example of a "best offer" slowly wearing a seller down. The guy wanted $300,000 but 16+ years after Al Gore invented the internet, he settled for $200,000. A win-win for both sides, plus, the seller can still fund a T206 Matty proof or a T206 Wagner (sure beats flipping cards for it)...

http://domainnamewire.com/2010/08/31...ls-for-200000/

Lovely Day...

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Don't ever be timid about making a "best offer!" They are accepted, all the time, in all walks of life................just how do you think I got married???

By the way, a bit O/T but here is a classic example of a "best offer" slowly wearing a seller down. The guy wanted $300,000 but 16+ years after Al Gore invented the internet, he settled for $200,000. A win-win for both sides, plus, the seller can still fund a T206 Matty proof or a T206 Wagner (sure beats flipping cards for it)...

http://domainnamewire.com/2010/08/31...ls-for-200000/

Lovely Day...

Pretty sleazy that MLB thought they somehow had a legal right of eminent domain, to the word "Angels".

[Shoeless Moe]

A 1919 World Series Program was listed for 1999.00 and was not in the greatest condition, but it was complete, nothing missing. Scorecard included. White Sox Team centerfold included. I'd say market value on it in it's condition was about a grand. As I've seen better condition go in the 1300 and missing CF go for as high as 600.

So I knew it lied somewhere in the middle. Offered 800 1 week, nothing, no counter. A month later seller had it at the same high price, offered 800 again, still nothing. The 600 CF-less one sold and I wonder if he saw that, as a day or 2 after it ended I offered 900 and he accepted. If he would have came back with offers on any of the 3 bids I'd of gone to a 1000. So technically I got it less then 50% of BIN, so don't be afraid, u have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain!

Just this past month a great seller had a 1919 World Series Ticket for 1350.00 BIN or BO, I offered 1000 knowing I was way low, rejected, but again no counter which I find odd, but that tells me I'm not close. Well the seller got 2 or 3 more offers, not sure what they were, but my guess is not good. I then offered 1170 on the 3rd day it was up, and they accepted. I actually would have paid the BIN of 1350, so I feel good I got a deal. I would have killed myself, or at least choked myself for a long time, letting go right b4 blackout, if I'd a missed out. Cuz one at Legandary just went for 2200+, granted again mine is in slightly lesser condition, but I'm more about the nostalgia and item itself then condition.

Thanks for reading my book. Sorry this was so long. So long!

[Exhibitman]

I don't think there's any etiquette to the offer itself; make it for whatever you are willing to pay and the seller will either take it or not. The seller put up the best offer option because the sticker price wasn't the bottom line. That's a given.

I never get upset with an offer made via the Best Offer device (I set my auto-rejects at levels that weeds out the bottom-feeding nimrods), just with what happens after, and IMHO the etiquette comes in when the offer is rejected. I feel it is bad form to bitch and moan to the seller about why your offer was rejected, especially if your complaint is of the "VCP says this" or "I know you paid this" or "I saw it at the National for this" variety. My usual response to that is "then don't buy it here." What some buyers do not realize is that I already know the same information they are spouting and I have already accounted for it as I see fit. I feel as though some bidders think that if only they can pester me enough I will suddenly decide they are right and back off, when more likely I will just block their bids and discard their messages unread. And I especially enjoy the snappy repartee with bidders who tell me how much they need/want/have to have an item, just not at my price. Let's see if I can grasp this dilemma: I have something you really want and I should discount it because you really want it? I kinda thought the law of supply and demand worked the other way around...

[tonyo]

I just wish the name on the button would change from "best offer" to "let's negotiate"

Usually I make my "best offer" and the seller comes back with a counter offer. Then I'm thinking "I just made my best offer, why would they think I will pay more?"

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tonyo

I just wish the name on the button would change from "best offer" to "let's negotiate"

Usually I make my "best offer" and the seller comes back with a counter offer. Then I'm thinking "I just made my best offer, why would they think I will pay more?"

Best is rarely best. Many, many times I have done better than a best offer . (is that even possible?)

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by Leon

Best is rarely best. Many, many times I have done better than a best offer . (is that even possible?)

That was my painfully literal sense of humor in action

[peterose4hof]

I am amazed how many sellers ignore offers all together. It is bad form and bad business to do so. If I make an offer an never hear back I move on. If the seller doesn't have the time and courtesy to counter or deny my offer then I don't need to buy from them. Most often I offer less than I am willing to pay because it gives me room to work.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

I am amazed how many sellers ignore offers all together. It is bad form and bad business to do so. If I make an offer an never hear back I move on. If the seller doesn't have the time and courtesy to counter or deny my offer then I don't need to buy from them. Most often I offer less than I am willing to pay because it gives me room to work.

I think you're taking it too personally. In that case a non-response is a response: no.

[JasonL]

that offer a Make Offer button, but they don't really mean it.

For instance, I made an offer of the VCP average for a card, at $100 within the last few months, on a card that a high volume, well-known dealer had listed with a BIN of $130. His counteroffer was $126.
Gee, thanks...don't strain yourself.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by JasonL

that offer a Make Offer button, but they don't really mean it.

For instance, I made an offer of the VCP average for a card, at $100 within the last few months, on a card that a high volume, well-known dealer had listed with a BIN of $130. His counteroffer was $126.
Gee, thanks...don't strain yourself.

My favorite non-offer goes like this....

I have a card for sale, say for $100. Someone asks if I can do $80. I say yes. He says, "ok, I will think about it." Uh, what just happened? Why ask if I can take less if you aren't ready to buy it for the price you asked for, idiot?

[nebboy]

may last BIN/Offer was already listed at 80% BV (which doesnt happen very often) and I still asked for 25% more off. Im glad to get a nice HOF for a good price. Its worth the asking.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by JasonL

that offer a Make Offer button, but they don't really mean it.

For instance, I made an offer of the VCP average for a card, at $100 within the last few months, on a card that a high volume, well-known dealer had listed with a BIN of $130. His counteroffer was $126.
Gee, thanks...don't strain yourself.

It wouldn't be any of those high volume, well known dealers that have had the same cards listed on eBay for years at 50% more than they would actually sell for would it?

[wake.up.the.echoes]

If I have told you once, I have told you 707 times...

[Doug]

Originally Posted by 19bowman48

If I have told you once, I have told you 707 times...

Good one!

[Anthony S.]

Here's a good rule of thumb: If you send an extremely low offer (less than half of all the other offers) and then cancel that offer literally 2 minutes later and immediately send an even lower offer -- as one board member did to me last year -- you'll find that you won't be allowed to bid in that individual's auctions/best offers anymore.

And my Buy It Now was actually quite reasonable. The individual who bought it from me sold it via Ebay auction for a higher price than my Buy It Now asking price within a month.

[GoSoxBoSox]

I don't think offering fair market value, or very close to it, is ever a bad thing.

As a person who has a few BINs listed I only hate one thing ...and this one thing happens every day. That is, when people think the lowest sales price ever listed on VCP for a card in a given grade is the "market value". I'm frankly sick of people says this. There are too many buyers than expect sellers to sell at the lowest VCP price when some of those sales are ridulously off-base from the norm. Just because one seller here and there happens to list a card at a ridiculously low price because they either don't know the market value, they don't have much invested into a card or they are selling a fake doesn't mean that is the market value of the card. You need to look at the normal final value of a card that has been auctioned-off, and you should also review the picture of the card to make sure it isn't on the low end of the scale for that grade (i.e. bad centering, bad registration, etc.)

But what you are proposing as "Best Offers" would be great, IMO. I wish more people were like that.

[HRBAKER]

My assumption is that a seller that lists a card for multiples (2x,3x) of what a card typically sells for is likely rarely offended. He/she is looking for an uniformed buyer. When you make a reasonable offer they know you are not one. If a reasonable offer is half the BIN price so what.

[teetwoohsix]

So what do you offer/do when it seems like the BIN is 4X what it should be?
If you offer 50% it's still like you are paying twice what you should......I hope that made sense

Clayton

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

My assumption is that a seller that lists a card for multiples (2x,3x) of what a card typically sells for is likely rarely offended. He/she is looking for an uniformed buyer. When you make a reasonable offer they know you are not one. If a reasonable offer is half the BIN price so what.

Agreed, that can be the case.

I have a few cards listed at very high prices as compared to their last sales prices simply because I had bought them when the market was higher and I only want to sell them if I get my money back. There aren't a lot of these cards listed and some collector might be willing to pay my price in order to snag the card regardless of the last sales price. I frankly think the last sales price for many cards is worthless and people put too much into VCP. Common T206s are different for sure because they are common cards.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

So what do you offer/do when it seems like the BIN is 4X what it should be?
If you offer 50% it's still like you are paying twice what you should......I hope that made sense

Clayton

You offer what you are willing to pay for it as long as it is reasonable. An unreasonable listing price does not drive up or raise the value of the card.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by GoSoxBoSox

Agreed, that can be the case.

I have a few cards listed at very high prices as compared to their last sales prices simply because I had bought them when the market was higher and I only want to sell them if I get my money back. There aren't a lot of these cards listed and some collector might be willing to pay my price in order to snag the card regardless of the last sales price. I frankly think the last sales price for many cards is worthless and people put too much into VCP. Common T206s are different for sure because they are common cards.

Tom,

I understand what you are saying. If you can get your $ back fine, if you can't you will sit on it for awhile. I have been told many times when I have made an offer on a card, "I have more than that in it." To me that's irrelevant if you want to sell it to me. Your example also says a "few" cards not a few hundred for several months/years, etc.

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Jeff- maybe you or someone can help me here- what would be a reasonable offer for a Bob Ganley T206 graded V/G-E/X 4 ?
Just curious-thanks.

Clayton

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Thanks Jeff- maybe you or someone can help me here- what would be a reasonable offer for a Bob Ganley T206 graded V/G-E/X 4 ?
Just curious-thanks.

Clayton

Not Jeff, but $70 - $75 would be reasonable.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I have been told many times when I have made an offer on a card, "I have more than that in it." To me that's irrelevant if you want to sell it to me.

I hear ya.

Us sellers are just telling you why we can't drop the price. I guess I would rather explain why I can't drop the price rather than just answer "No". I actually like to put an autodecline in at the level at which I won't go below so that I don't have to say anything.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by GoSoxBoSox

I hear ya.

Us sellers are just telling you why we can't drop the price. I guess I would rather explain why I can't drop the price rather than just answer "No". I actually like to put an autodecline in at the level at which I won't go below so that I don't have to say anything.

Tom,
I hear you too. When I swap it kills me to get less than I have in something in value but I have done it.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Tom,
I hear you too. When I swap it kills me to get less than I have in something in value but I have done it.

We all do, Jeff. However, there is surely a limit to how much one will leave on the table. I think we would all agree to that and that thinking is the basis for many prices that might seem high in a given market. Not all, but many.

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Anthony. That sounds about right-I appreciate your response.

Sincerely,Clayton

[Doug]

I'm not a dealer trying to make a profit so if I want to sell a card I normally just list it with the BIN set at whatever I paid for it so I can break even and take the guesswork out of the process. Pretty much the only time I use the best offer option is when I know I overpaid for a card and I'm trying to see if someone is willing to give me at least something close to what I have in it.

[teetwoohsix]

You may be a rarity Doug- it seems like most of the BIN's on cards I look up are usually priced 3-4X above what they are really worth.

Of course, I don't expect a seller to go through all of the trouble to make 0 off the whole thing- but when the seller will only come down 4 or 5 dollars from an outrageously high BIN, it is a turn off and I would likely look elsewhere at that point.

Clayton

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by Doug

I'm not a dealer trying to make a profit so if I want to sell a card I normally just list it with the BIN set at whatever I paid for it so I can break even and take the guesswork out of the process. Pretty much the only time I use the best offer option is when I know I overpaid for a card and I'm trying to see if someone is willing to give me at least something close to what I have in it.

That explains most of my listings well, Doug. Unfortunately, the market is wayyyy down.

[HRBAKER]

What you are really seeking is a meeting of the minds here. The fact is that many of the sellers we are talking about here are not in a position to have to sell the cards that they have listed so they can wait it out. That is good for them but it is also no reason to overpay. I have always heard that a fast deal is probably a bad deal. If you are dealing with cards that pop up with frequency (T206s with common backs, etc.), a little patience can save you a lot of money I would think. Tom's point is a good one, his initial out lay for the card is a relevant consideration for his pricing.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by GoSoxBoSox

That explains most of my listings well, Doug. Unfortunately, the market is wayyyy down.

A little part of the reason why the "market is way down" might just be because buy-it-now's, best offers, or the straight "For Sale" sign do not really work for collectibles. At least, not if you are trying to quickly move cards while maximizing positive cash flow. Nothing gets the juices flowing bids going like an old fashion auction (starting at .99 cents with highest bidder being declared "the intercontinental champion"). Too bad the current eBay management doesn't see that.

Lovely Day...

[Doug]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

You may be a rarity Doug- it seems like most of the BIN's on cards I look up are usually priced 3-4X above what they are really worth.

Of course, I don't expect a seller to go through all of the trouble to make 0 off the whole thing- but when the seller will only come down 4 or 5 dollars from an outrageously high BIN, it is a turn off and I would likely look elsewhere at that point.

Clayton

I'm not really sure if I'm a rarity, I'm just not a dealer that needs to make a profit for a living. I just mess around with cards for fun so as long as I can break even I'm happy.

[Exhibitman]

Patience and rarity are key words. I waited a long time for a T206 Cobb red portrait to come up for sale at a price I liked. There are enough of them out there that I can wait. I've also BINed some cards at record prices because I know how rare they are and don't want to miss them.

I also like to test the waters on a card. I sometimes will offer a rare card at a substantial BIN. I don't need or want to sell it so I can set my price and sit back if it doesn't sell. The whole "market price" thing is just silly for cards like that, and more often than not I get offers that get the card sold. Given that, I do understand the model of certain "overpriced" sellers who have a large Ebay inventory of high demand cards--if you want it now you will pay for it now at their price. If not, go find it elsewhere. It must work for them since they remain in business.

One thing that I don't like with Ebay Best Offer is that it caps the number of best offers you can make. I've been capped out a couple of times on an item and I know I'd prefer unlimited offers on my cards. As long as I have the automatic rejection mode set, let the buyers "bid" against my reserve. I think Ebay should abolish any limits on the frequency of Best Offers if the seller has an automatic rejection or an automatic acceptance level. It would make for more sales, hence more revenue for everyone, if bidders could bid against themselves.

[GoSoxBoSox]

I think some are a little unfair at judging peoples seemingly high prices. You have no idea why some prices are so high so you shouldn't assume it's about profit. In many cases prices that are x3-4 market value on eBay is strictly because the market value has changed drastically in the last 2 years.

For example, in December of 2008 I won an 1887 N175 Ezra Sutton in PSA 2MK condition in an eBay auction (not a BIN purchase).

I listed it on eBay about 6 months ago at $950 with an autodecline for anything less than $900. When you figure that I have to pay eBay and paypal fee's I would lose money at $900 if it sold. No big deal though. The highest bid I got was $525. So I bet in that case people must have thought my price was ridiculous. Was it? This same story can be true for any card listed on eBat. Not just the rare cards.

Most of my BINs are the same story. Not all of them, but many of them. The market is way down so many prices on eBay that seem high reflect the same issue. Plus, you need to sell a card for ~15% more than you bought it for just to break even and VCP doesn't show that.

The shame of it all is that anyone in this position on a card may not ever recoup their investment.

[GoSoxBoSox]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

One thing that I don't like with Ebay Best Offer is that it caps the number of best offers you can make. I've been capped out a couple of times on an item and I know I'd prefer unlimited offers on my cards. As long as I have the automatic rejection mode set, let the buyers "bid" against my reserve. I think Ebay should abolish any limits on the frequency of Best Offers if the seller has an automatic rejection or an automatic acceptance level. It would make for more sales, hence more revenue for everyone, if bidders could bid against themselves.

I don't think this stops sales. You just need to contact the seller if you are capped. That said, I agree the cap is useless.

[HRBAKER]

All that being said is true. But it's a given on anything that you may not be able to recoup your investment. Part of the issue is that ebay is a buyer's enviroment. I guess whether your regard a "price" as being high is related to the prism you view it through. If a card I am looking at/for is priced at 2 or 3 times what the so-called average is currently I don't ask myself if it ever sold for that price and if so then consider the price reasonable.


The issue cuts both ways, if a previous "buyer" overpaid then should succeeeding buyers be willing to bc he did? On the other hand is the "average" a true average? VCP is very good for issues with many transactions but to me it is irrelevant for issues with very few, it can provide a recent snapshot (maybe) but the information is too thin to draw a hard conclusion. Plus even for the "common" issues it still does not capture but a portion of the data.

The fact that many BINs have not adjusted down with the market (for common isues) is just a reflection of the fact that the inventory for the most part does not have to be moved IMO.

I think it is a very interesting dynamic.

[BlueDevil89]

People can ask whatever prices they want for the cards they own. People with money can make any offer for cards they want. This makes the market. If the seller rejects an offer, it's the seller's option to keep the card and pass on the cash. And if the buyer refuses to step up and prefers to wait in hopes of picking the card up at a bargain price down the road, that's the buyer's option.

As Michael Corleone said in the original GF - "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."