Brady Retiring…

[steve B]

Originally Posted by egri

My thermodynamics professor had worked on the Apollo program at NASA; a couple days after that scandal broke, he spent an entire lesson debunking the NFL's case.

The gas laws are or at least were HS physics. Reinforced in college.
I hadn't bothered with the math in decades, but did some when they gave numbers.

When they showed the guages used by the officials, to me that was the clincher.
The ones used were cheap stuff you can get anywhere for a few bucks. Even most decent guages are only accurate 5% lower end of the range 3% mid range and 5% upper end. The cheap ones are more like 10-5-10. And they were using them at the lower end of the range. A difference within the accuracy range of the guage is essentially no difference.
(So if the guage goes to 100psi, a 15 psi reading will actually be between 5 and 25. or between 10 and 20 using a slightly better guage.

The bent pin may have also changed the reading but I'm not certain of that.

Now if they'd used a calibrated guage that was something like 1% .5% 1% that would be a different thing altogether.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by steve B

What sort of team uses signals that can be easily read or learned from videos of practice?
One that really doesn't want to win.
I'm sure there are guys who can sit in the stands and memorize that stuff without a camcorder. And I'm also sure every team employs at least one or two.

Heck, Tony Romo as a broadcaster was saying what plays were before teams ran them just going off where the different players lined up.

But rules are rules for a reason. It's one thing to analyze signals and formations during a game, but quite another to film an opposing team while they are going through their practice time. This is why they were penalized hundreds of thousands of dollars and the loss of draft picks. I, for one, believe it gave them a decided edge during those early 2000s. One year the Colts averaged over 30 points per game, but couldn't even get into the end zone against them. It was like they knew what was coming on every play (because they did). It was actually Peyton Manning who busted the Pats. There was an article interview quoting him in Sporting News (I think) during the 2006 season when he said that he knew they videoed the Colts during their practices up there (at Gillette Stadium). About six months later, the scandal of Spygate was revealed.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

But rules are rules for a reason. It's one thing to analyze signals and formations during a game, but quite another to film an opposing team while they are going through their practice time. This is why they were penalized hundreds of thousands of dollars and the loss of draft picks. I, for one, believe it gave them a decided edge during those early 2000s. One year the Colts averaged over 30 points per game, but couldn't even get into the end zone against them. It was like they knew what was coming on every play (because they did). It was actually Peyton Manning who busted the Pats. There was an article interview quoting him in Sporting News (I think) during the 2006 season when he said that he knew they videoed the Colts during their practices up there (at Gillette Stadium). About six months later, the scandal of Spygate was revealed.

The simple solution is to use different signals in practice than you use in the game. Not doing that is in my mind really dumb and just the sort of stupid the Jets seem to like.

Filming the practice or signals isn't against the rules, and wasn't then. It was a matter of where the recording was done from.
All teams film all their games no doubt including signals. That's allowed from some areas. Pre 2006 it was pretty much ok from wherever.
It's not allowed to use that footage in the same game, which everyone admits was not done.

The rule in question.
Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL (p 39 of this pdf): No member shall: "Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

How that applies when they have the teams using tablets I can't say. Perhaps it changed when they got the Microsoft sponsorship.

That quoted rule above is from this writeup of it all
https://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by steve B

The simple solution is to use different signals in practice than you use in the game. Not doing that is in my mind really dumb and just the sort of stupid the Jets seem to like.

Filming the practice or signals isn't against the rules, and wasn't then. It was a matter of where the recording was done from.
All teams film all their games no doubt including signals. That's allowed from some areas. Pre 2006 it was pretty much ok from wherever.
It's not allowed to use that footage in the same game, which everyone admits was not done.

The rule in question.
Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL (p 39 of this pdf): No member shall: "Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

How that applies when they have the teams using tablets I can't say. Perhaps it changed when they got the Microsoft sponsorship.

That quoted rule above is from this writeup of it all
https://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

So I guess the penalties were indiscriminate and unjust in your opinion? We all have an opinion, but it is what it is - just another reminder that the Patriots would try to win at all costs, regardless of the rules. Belichick tried to apologize for his "misinterpretation" of the rules, but Dungy wasn't having any of it. He publicly criticized Belichick, saying that the rules are so clear that they couldn't be misinterpreted without some intent to break them.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by robw1959

So I guess the penalties were indiscriminate and unjust in your opinion? We all have an opinion, but it is what it is - just another reminder that the Patriots would try to win at all costs, regardless of the rules. Belichick tried to apologize for his "misinterpretation" of the rules, but Dungy wasn't having any of it. He publicly criticized Belichick, saying that the rules are so clear that they couldn't be misinterpreted without some intent to break them.

The penalties were more about disobeying the commissioner than the rule breaking. I'm trying to remember if it was this one or a different thing where the penalty was way beyond what the rules called for. (Or if it was both?)

That website is a fun one by the way. It pretty well covers all the stuff each team has done to try to get an edge that wasn't quite by the book.

[egri]

That didn't last long. He's back.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by egri

That didn't last long. He's back.

Maybe the Falcons can finally beat him in ‘22, the Bears did for the first time in '20.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I bet Giselle is not happy. For years she's been legitimately terrified of concussions.

[GasHouseGang]

I warned you in Post #34. He was just playing with us.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I bet Giselle is not happy. For years she's been legitimately terrified of concussions.

One other person who might not be happy would be the winner of this...
https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=108647

Not sure last TD in first retirement has the same ring to it as last TD of your career.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I bet Giselle is not happy. For years she's been legitimately terrified of concussions.

Giselle not worry herself too much over concussions. Typically they do not happen that often to wives of NFL players.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Giselle not worry herself too much over concussions. Typically they do not happen that often to wives of NFL players.

As long as they stay out of elevators I guess that's right.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As long as they stay out of elevators I guess that's right.

Clever.... you set that one up beautifully.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As long as they stay out of elevators I guess that's right.

I see what you did there..Nice!!