Not the best day for Cardinals fans.......

[Brian Van Horn]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13...stros-database

[kmac32]

Everybody knows the Crapinals cheat. How else would they get to the post season so many times in the last few years? :-)

[Howe’s Hunter]

wouldn't you think we would steal from someone in our own division, or better yet, a club that wins?

[ALR-bishop]

Luhnow, the Astros GM, was a Cardinal front office guy who helped them build one of the best minor league systems in baseball during a time when they quit trading prospects for rental players. He was not all that popular but very successful. In 2011 he took his system to Houston and the results there are starting to pay off. My hope is that it will be a grudge deal with someone not high up in the organization, but time will tell.

[kmac32]

maybe the Crapinals were hacking the Astros system so they could learn how to lose with humility instead of being the cocky team that they currently are? LOL

[ALR-bishop]

It is interesting the government seems fixated again with fixing all that is wrong with baseball while their own systems are apparently being hacked on a massive scale. Maybe the Cardinals did that too

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

It is interesting the government seems fixated again with fixing all that is wrong with baseball while their own systems are apparently being hacked on a massive scale. Maybe the Cardinals did that too

Who says the government is only fixated on the Cardinals. I doubt they would have such a myopic view.

[kmac32]

Edward Snowden is probably a Cardinal Fan.....Afterall, they call it the "Cardinal Way"

[HRBAKER]

Whatever they did if they did it, it needs to come out and they need to take their lumps - whatever they may be.

Isn't it amazing how success breeds so much more contempt than mediocrity.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Whatever they did if they did it, it needs to come out and they need to take their lumps - whatever they may be.

Isn't it amazing how success breeds so much more contempt than mediocrity.

I used to admire the BB Cards and to a certain extent the FB Pats. No more.

Pretty sad, really.

The bigger story is that cyber crime has now officially infiltrated sports. That is pathetic and sad.

[chaddurbin]

i hate the cardinals not because they win alot, but because they seem to think that they're the last gatekeeper to anything that is holy and virtuous left in baseball...like their stuff don't stink. all the while they engage in the same petty baseball unwritten bs like every other teams that they look down on. stop it with the faux midwestern modesty already, just own up to who you are.

hell the giants are in the same division as my dodgers and they've won like the last 5 world series but i don't begrudge them half as much as the cardinals.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Everybody knows the Crapinals cheat. How else would they get to the post season so many times in the last few years? :-)

Some great insight here. Not really.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

Some great insight here. Not really.

That's fine. Why don't you justify the cyber crime Mr. Cardinal?

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by sreader3

That's fine. Why don't you justify the cyber crime Mr. Cardinal?

love it. LOL

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i hate the cardinals not because they win alot, but because they seem to think that they're the last gatekeeper to anything that is holy and virtuous left in baseball...like their stuff don't stink. all the while they engage in the same petty baseball unwritten bs like every other teams that they look down on. stop it with the faux midwestern modesty already, just own up to who you are.

hell the giants are in the same division as my dodgers and they've won like the last 5 world series but i don't begrudge them half as much as the cardinals.

agreed

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i hate the cardinals not because they win alot, but because they seem to think that they're the last gatekeeper to anything that is holy and virtuous left in baseball...like their stuff don't stink. all the while they engage in the same petty baseball unwritten bs like every other teams that they look down on. stop it with the faux midwestern modesty already, just own up to who you are.

hell the giants are in the same division as my dodgers and they've won like the last 5 world series but i don't begrudge them half as much as the cardinals.

You are full of it so high your eyes are turning brown. You know nothing of "Midwestern Modesty or anything else concerning the St. Louis Cardinals. All your punky little Dodgers know is they can't beat the Cardinals in the playoffs to get at your real rivals. Jim Rome smack talking left coast bigotry on full display here.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by sreader3

That's fine. Why don't you justify the cyber crime Mr. Cardinal?

Because I don't generally judge a "crime" until it is proven. You obviously have a closed mind and have no intent of letting the individuals or whoever is involved be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I'm not Mr. Cardinal either Mr. whoever you are.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by kmac32

maybe the Crapinals were hacking the Astros system so they could learn how to lose with humility instead of being the cocky team that they currently are? LOL

Typical California smack talker.

[sreader3]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

Because I don't generally judge a "crime" until it is proven. You obviously have a closed mind and have no intent of letting the individuals or whoever is involved be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I'm not Mr. Cardinal either Mr. whoever you are.

Okay will you issue a formal apology on Net54 when the Cards settle or are convicted?

"New York Times: The Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. federal prosecutors are investigating the St. Louis Cardinals baseball team for hacking into the computers of the Houston Astros to steal closely guarded information about player personnel, The New York Times reported on Tuesday.

Compromised information includes internal discussions about trades, proprietary statistics and scouting reports, the Times reported, citing law enforcement officials.

There is evidence that officials of the Cardinals, who won the 2006 and 2011 World Series and are one of the sport's most respected franchises, broke into a network of special databases, the report said."

Look, I used to like the Cards and I don't even really like NYT but you gotta face facts.

"Mr. Whoever You Are." -- Yeah, I'm just another guy in the peanut gallery. Proceed.

[clydepepper]

I think this shows how very Patriotic the Cardinals are.

yuk-yuk!

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Okay will you issue a formal apology on Net54 when the Cards settle or are convicted?

"New York Times: The Federal Bureau of Investigation and U.S. federal prosecutors are investigating the St. Louis Cardinals baseball team for hacking into the computers of the Houston Astros to steal closely guarded information about player personnel, The New York Times reported on Tuesday.

Compromised information includes internal discussions about trades, proprietary statistics and scouting reports, the Times reported, citing law enforcement officials.

There is evidence that officials of the Cardinals, who won the 2006 and 2011 World Series and are one of the sport's most respected franchises, broke into a network of special databases, the report said."

Look, I used to like the Cards and I don't even really like NYT but you gotta face facts.

"Mr. Whoever You Are." -- Yeah, I'm just another guy in the peanut gallery. Proceed.

Well, I hate the media granted title of Best Fans in Baseball. Stupidest thing I have ever heard of in my life. I didn't hack anyone, maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I won't apologize for anything because I didn't do anything. As far as most respected franchises and all than nonsense I know nothing about the perceptions of other fan bases about the Cardinals other than a few teams fan bases totally hating the Cardinals.

I grew up in a time dominated totally and completely by the New York Yankees. Everyone was taught to hate the Yankees because nobody could beat them.

To a degree the success of the Cardinals in recent years has caused some hate in the old Yankee style, from fans in pockets of the country such as Los Angeles and Chicago. You can throw in Kansas City in our own state due to their thirty year slump and the Cardinals fans filling half empty Kaufman Stadium during their down years. So I get the hate. I just don't get the glee from certain individuals about this coming to light.

Just keep repeating to yourself Best Fans in Baseball/Cardinal Way over and over till you are in a stupor and maybe you will see the light. I will still be laughing about those media produced labels. But I will not lose a bunch of sleep over what other fan bases think either. Good luck with your favorite team, hope the Cardinals haven't caused embarrassment for you or them.

[sreader3]

I appreciate your fan(aticism). I am a Rockies fan (a rare breed) and when the Cards come to Coors their fans are often are a majority or close to 50-50. I am just saddened that the Cards, a mid-market team that has had great success, seem to have instigated the MLB "cyber crime" era. At least they were the first team caught and will be remembered as such.

[HRBAKER]

I agree with Bob to the extent that the "Best Fans in Baseball" and "Cardinal Way" monikers can be attributed to Sports Illustrated and other media outlets. As a Cardinal fan since the mid-60's I don't recall those terms being self-annointed. St. Louis is a baseball town pure and simple and has never been anything else. They are about to lose their second NFL franchise in 30 years, the NBA left town soon after winning an NBA championship and the Blues couldn't get out of the first round if they had Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, and Yzerman on the same team.

IF this is true and was known by the GM and other high ranking officials I think they have to go. It certainly casts a pall on the franchise to me but not the players. That is unless they hacked the Astros computers and found a secret file, codename - "How to make Kershaw look ordinary."

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Luhnow, the Astros GM, was a Cardinal front office guy who helped them build one of the best minor league systems in baseball during a time when they quit trading prospects for rental players. He was not all that popular but very successful. In 2011 he took his system to Houston and the results there are starting to pay off. My hope is that it will be a grudge deal with someone not high up in the organization, but time will tell.

Spot on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beatles Guy]

Originally Posted by kmac32

maybe the Crapinals were hacking the Astros system so they could learn how to lose with humility instead of being the cocky team that they currently are? LOL

Here I was hoping to have some intelligent conversation about this and get some insight from other baseball fans and I get what resembles a Facebook pissing match.

As for the Cardinals, whoever did it should be fired, even if it goes all the way to the top. There is no excuse for that behavior. I am as big a Cardinal fan there is, but I recognize right from wrong.

Winning breeds contempt, I get that. I hated the Yankees of the 90's. But now, as I've gotten older, I have recognized my flawed thinking in respect to those teams.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by StuckInOmaha

wouldn't you think we would steal from someone in our own division, or better yet, a club that wins?

Exactly Ed !!! I'm a White Sox fan but if I have to root for a National League team (usually do cause Sox suck) it's St. Louis.

Why the hell would the be stealing info from an American League team ?? This has personal written all over it.

[peterose4hof]

Interesting article about the potential punishments.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/specu...al-punishment/

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

Typical California smack talker.

Actually I am originally from the Midwest (Peoria Illinois area) and also lived by St. Louis for a while and am quite familiar with the Cardinals. Being from Central Illinois, you are either a Cub fan or a Cards fan. The issue is that the bulk of the Card fans tend to be quite vocal and obnoxious toward Cub fans so talking some smack is allowed after all of the abuse Cardinal fans dish out. If you can't take the heat, get ot of the kitchen as they used to say back home.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I think this shows how very Patriotic the Cardinals are.

yuk-yuk!

I salute you for that one.

[HRBAKER]

Pointing out that the Cubs have been inept for over a century is hardly smack talk. This Cards fan thinks the Cubs are in a very good spot now and poised to break the jinx.

All one has to do is stroll the streets around Wrigley and take a look at the T shirts being sold to see who talks the smack. One of my favorites, "Pujols Mows My Lawn."

I say bring on the smack talk Cubs fans, someday soon you may have more than that.

[ALR-bishop]

Agree with Jeff. I have some good friends who are Cub fans and would like to think the banter is in good nature. Also agree the Cubs may be on the threshold of a very good team

[HRBAKER]

From Inside or Outside the Park!

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Actually I am originally from the Midwest (Peoria Illinois area) and also lived by St. Louis for a while and am quite familiar with the Cardinals. Being from Central Illinois, you are either a Cub fan or a Cards fan. The issue is that the bulk of the Card fans tend to be quite vocal and obnoxious toward Cub fans so talking some smack is allowed after all of the abuse Cardinal fans dish out. If you can't take the heat, get ot of the kitchen as they used to say back home.

You can't tell me anything about Cubs/ Cards rivalry and fan smack. I have been a Cardinal fan since 1958, I know all about the history of the rivalry. I have lived in Illinois for four years and the rest of my time has been spent in Missouri other than four years in the Navy. In the old days there was a lot more civility in the world.

I don't come on here to have some guy start using pet names for my favorite team. I come to learn a little more about old baseball cards. Please don't talk to me about abuse by Cardinal fans. Cub fans take a back seat to no one in dishing it out. And they are about to have more ammunition with the development of a lot of young position players. I expect they will become unbearable. No pun intended.

You have blinders on and think it is ok for Cubs fans to dish it out and no ok for Cardinal fans to fire back. I have spent much time in Chicago setting up at the National and at Sun Times and Fanatics shows. Also used to do the shows in Schaumburg when SCD put on shows there. So I have dealt with plenty of Cubs fans and we get along fine for the most part. We just do business, not talk smack.

Here is the latest from the local hacks: DeWitt and Mozeliak put out a strong statement that they did not know about this until approached by the feds about the investigation. This has been ongoing for about a year. They do not know the identity of the individuals involved, but are aware of the seriousness of the situation and expect the guilty party or parties to be punished in whatever manner is deemed appropriate.

To me they are in charge and the buck should stop at the top, but rogue employees often do things that their superiors have no knowledge of.

If they prove knowledge by high up officials then heads should roll and there should be heavy penalties up to fines and loss of draft picks.

At this point everything is speculation, and North Side Baseball, Redzone, and other fan forums are having a field day enjoying the situation the Cardinals find themselves in. The Cardinals will still be around at the end of the day.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

You can't tell me anything about Cubs/ Cards rivalry and fan smack. I have been a Cardinal fan since 1958, I know all about the history of the rivalry. I have lived in Illinois for four years and the rest of my time has been spent in Missouri other than four years in the Navy. In the old days there was a lot more civility in the world.

I don't come on here to have some guy start using pet names for my favorite team. I come to learn a little more about old baseball cards. Please don't talk to me about abuse by Cardinal fans. Cub fans take a back seat to no one in dishing it out. And they are about to have more ammunition with the development of a lot of young position players. I expect they will become unbearable. No pun intended.

You have blinders on and think it is ok for Cubs fans to dish it out and no ok for Cardinal fans to fire back. I have spent much time in Chicago setting up at the National and at Sun Times and Fanatics shows. Also used to do the shows in Schaumburg when SCD put on shows there. So I have dealt with plenty of Cubs fans and we get along fine for the most part. We just do business, not talk smack.

Here is the latest from the local hacks: DeWitt and Mozeliak put out a strong statement that they did not know about this until approached by the feds about the investigation. This has been ongoing for about a year. They do not know the identity of the individuals involved, but are aware of the seriousness of the situation and expect the guilty party or parties to be punished in whatever manner is deemed appropriate.

To me they are in charge and the buck should stop at the top, but rogue employees often do things that their superiors have no knowledge of.

If they prove knowledge by high up officials then heads should roll and there should be heavy penalties up to fines and loss of draft picks.

At this point everything is speculation, and North Side Baseball, Redzone, and other fan forums are having a field day enjoying the situation the Cardinals find themselves in. The Cardinals will still be around at the end of the day.

go Cubs Go.....LOL by the way, Curt Flood was one heck of a ballplayer in his day

[glenv]

Has anyone looked into this guy yet???

hacker.jpg

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by kmac32

go Cubs Go.....LOL by the way, Curt Flood was one heck of a ballplayer in his day

I met Flood in Palma Majorca, Spain while in the Navy. He was running a bar there. I had the privilege of drinking rum and coke with him and talking baseball for three hours after he found I was a Cardinal fan. I believe the year was 1972. He was a very intelligent individual, fascinating to talk with in depth.

One of my favorite series occurred late in 1969 when the Cubs were riding high and fully expecting to win the pennant. Cardinals came in and swept them in four and the Mets took over. I was in Great Lakes NTC at the time and it was a relief to have an end put to the giant bubble that had built all that season.

[CurtisFlood]

[QUOTE=glenv;1422554]Has anyone looked into this guy yet???

Attachment 194673[/QUOTE\

No, but I believe Luther Hackmann is under suspicion.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by CurtisFlood

You can't tell me anything about Cubs/ Cards rivalry and fan smack. I have been a Cardinal fan since 1958, I know all about the history of the rivalry. I have lived in Illinois for four years and the rest of my time has been spent in Missouri other than four years in the Navy. In the old days there was a lot more civility in the world.

I don't come on here to have some guy start using pet names for my favorite team. I come to learn a little more about old baseball cards. Please don't talk to me about abuse by Cardinal fans. Cub fans take a back seat to no one in dishing it out. And they are about to have more ammunition with the development of a lot of young position players. I expect they will become unbearable. No pun intended.

You have blinders on and think it is ok for Cubs fans to dish it out and no ok for Cardinal fans to fire back. I have spent much time in Chicago setting up at the National and at Sun Times and Fanatics shows. Also used to do the shows in Schaumburg when SCD put on shows there. So I have dealt with plenty of Cubs fans and we get along fine for the most part. We just do business, not talk smack.

Here is the latest from the local hacks: DeWitt and Mozeliak put out a strong statement that they did not know about this until approached by the feds about the investigation. This has been ongoing for about a year. They do not know the identity of the individuals involved, but are aware of the seriousness of the situation and expect the guilty party or parties to be punished in whatever manner is deemed appropriate.

To me they are in charge and the buck should stop at the top, but rogue employees often do things that their superiors have no knowledge of.

If they prove knowledge by high up officials then heads should roll and there should be heavy penalties up to fines and loss of draft picks.

At this point everything is speculation, and North Side Baseball, Redzone, and other fan forums are having a field day enjoying the situation the Cardinals find themselves in. The Cardinals will still be around at the end of the day.

I believe in almost everything said here and can compare it to another situation/rivalry.

White Sox/Cubs & Yankees/Red Sux

Cubs fans talk a wholeeeeeeeeeeeee lotta shit. There are people who literally are artists and draw sketches of Ventura blowing Reinsdorf. That's a little bit much don't you think ???

Red Sux cried and cried about the Yankees spending all this money and they went and did the SAME exact thing and it's ok for them to but not ok for the Yankees ?????? Red Sux claim to be so clean and I don't care what anyone thinks NOBODY will change my mind about Ortiz. He is a juicer and DID get a pass. He has a HUGE mouth and is NOT a HOF. Nevertheless to get back on track they talk shit just like the Scrubs do. They make their distasteful meme's about the Yankees just like the Cubs do about the Sox (white).

Cubs and Red Sux are far from what I'd call model fans and certainly shouldn't be looked at as anything close to it. The funny thing is there are two types of Red Sux fans.

1) Real ones who follow them and have been following them for as long as they've been into baseball.
2) 2004 bandwagoners who only watch them when they're playing well (and trust me there's a WHOLE LOT OF THEM).

I feel like the same thing will happen with the Scrubs. They're playing well and if they ever pulled off some miracle and won even a Pennant then there will be two types of Scrub fans.

Leon you can delete at will or tell me to calm down I tried to keep it as tame as possible.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I believe in almost everything said here and can compare it to another situation/rivalry.

White Sox/Cubs & Yankees/Red Sux

Cubs fans talk a wholeeeeeeeeeeeee lotta shit. There are people who literally are artists and draw sketches of Ventura blowing Reinsdorf. That's a little bit much don't you think ???

Red Sux cried and cried about the Yankees spending all this money and they went and did the SAME exact thing and it's ok for them to but not ok for the Yankees ?????? Red Sux claim to be so clean and I don't care what anyone thinks NOBODY will change my mind about Ortiz. He is a juicer and DID get a pass. He has a HUGE mouth and is NOT a HOF. Nevertheless to get back on track they talk shit just like the Scrubs do. They make their distasteful meme's about the Yankees just like the Cubs do about the Sox (white).

Cubs and Red Sux are far from what I'd call model fans and certainly shouldn't be looked at as anything close to it. The funny thing is there are two types of Red Sux fans.

1) Real ones who follow them and have been following them for as long as they've been into baseball.
2) 2004 bandwagoners who only watch them when they're playing well (and trust me there's a WHOLE LOT OF THEM).

I feel like the same thing will happen with the Scrubs. They're playing well and if they ever pulled off some miracle and won even a Pennant then there will be two types of Scrub fans.

Leon you can delete at will or tell me to calm down I tried to keep it as tame as possible.

I fall under the group that has been a Cub fan since 1969. Been to Cubs camp 5 times and many retired Cubs are personal friends including Hundley, Big Lee Smith, and Fergie Jenkins. I take my team very seriously and am with them Winning and losing. I have family and friends that are Cardinal fans and yes they tend to go overboard on their gloating. Example calling the Cubs the scrubs or completely useless by September and all the bad jokes from the fans. I still call these folks friends and family and I do not take it personally. even if overboard, it is all in good fun and part of the rivalry. I can't tell you how many times I have deleted Cardinal fan cub trashing posts gloating about how great their team is. I just keep on deleting and dishing it back. If I took it personally I could drive myself crazy but not worth it.