Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great stuff.... Trouble is, now I want to see what's below those scroll pennants.

It's a never-ending smorgasbord of inredible pennants. Should be designated as "The Great Wall of Thetahat".

But to stay "on-topic", I have the identical 1940 WS Scroll version (Reds/Tigers) in green felt with yellow graphics.

The Great Wall (LOL!) is now finished with mini pennants in little holders. That 1940 pennant is neat, as is the Tigers “Pennant Winner” version (which I also don’t have.)

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I saw these at the National in Baltimore years ago, but he didn’t want to sell just the Yankees. I thought about buying the pair and selling the Cards, but obviously didn’t. Nice 1939 also, I think Ron Cunningham had that one for sale at one of the Chicago nationals. Fantastic condition.

Thanks … yeah the Yankees batter graphic is the sane as the one on the Cubs “Play Ball” pennant … and I think it’s on a White Sox pennant, too. Suggesting these are WGNs.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Really nice pennants, Greg. Impressive that the follow-up paint on the 1939 pennant has not faded.

Thanks. It’s an odd looking paint job. Like heavy thick lines, not blurred.

[Bumpus Jones]

Loving the Great Wall Greg!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Bumpus Jones

Loving the Great Wall Greg!

Ok, so that's officially "The Great Wall"

Let's see the other wall... perhaps to be aptly named "The Wall of Fame"

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

No … on this pennant they aren’t grommets but I meant it’s the same company as the one who used grommets. I just referred to it as the “grommet” company (with quotes). It seems as if after 1940 they did away with the grommets and stitched the tassels to the pennant, still without a spine. There is typically a clover design where the grommets used to be.

In the pic below only the 1939 dated pennant has grommets. Gotta be a Midwest company …

(On another note, I’m always looking for color variations of these Browns pennants … I think I’ve seen blue?)

Ugh... wish you'd hit me up about a year ago. I auctioned it for roughly half its worth. It was a deep blue felt with bright orange graphics. Would've fit in perfectly with your Browns montage.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Ugh... wish you'd hit me up about a year ago. I auctioned it for roughly half its worth. It was a deep blue felt with bright orange graphics. Would've fit in perfectly with your Browns montage.

Is it this one? This is mine. I’m referring to the exact design in the other pic, same style, font, etc. I think there may be a 1938 dated Browns just like the Cardinals.

Will have more pics soon …

[Topnotchsy]

I don't collect pennants, but was blown away by the Negro League pennants that were in the last Hunt Auction. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to win any, but was wondering how rare the Negro League pennants were. My assumption is that they are exceptionally difficult to find, but I am just basing that on general Negro League items vs American/National League items from that era.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

I don't collect pennants, but was blown away by the Negro League pennants that were in the last Hunt Auction. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to win any, but was wondering how rare the Negro League pennants were. My assumption is that they are exceptionally difficult to find, but I am just basing that on general Negro League items vs American/National League items from that era.

The Monarchs and ASG pennants that were auctioned are very rare. The other team pennants also, but as I understand it, there are a lot of convincing repros of them out there. I don’t have any, so there are others here who can better elaborate.

[perezfan]

There are repros, but the original examples still outnumber the reproductions. Easy to tell the difference. The 3/4 size Examples linked below are all originals, and are more prevalent than the Monarchs and East-West pennants that Greg referenced.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/mr-tro...9208083204767/

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

The Monarchs and ASG pennants that were auctioned are very rare. The other team pennants also, but as I understand it, there are a lot of convincing repros of them out there. I don’t have any, so there are others here who can better elaborate.

Thanks! I collect items related to barnstorming, so the Jackie Robinson All-Stars pennant particularly caught my attention as I don't believe I have ever seen one.

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

Thanks! I collect items related to barnstorming, so the Jackie Robinson All-Stars pennant particularly caught my attention as I don't believe I have ever seen one.

Jeff, the 1953-4 JR All-stars pennant is the second one I have seen. I purchased a green one a short while ago and just loaned it to the JR Museum in NY.

Rick

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Jeff, the 1953-4 JR All-stars pennant is the second one I have seen. I purchased a green one a short while ago and just loaned it to the JR Museum in NY.

Rick

I'd love to see a picture. That is awesome!

My Jackie All-Stars collection includes:
- 1946 - A couple of 1946 Bob Feller Tour programs against the Jackie Robinson All-Stars (after Feller and Paige split up at the end of the tour, Feller played a few games against Jackie)
- 1949 - Programs in blue and black ink
- 1950 Broadside
- 1953 - Program. I also have 2 Negro League signed baseballs that based on the signators, I believe originate from this tour. They are two of the only Official Negro League balls that I have ever seen signed by Jackie.

[rlevy]

sure Jeff, here you go. I posted a photo before when I bought it, but never a problem showing it again. There were a few other JR barnstorming pennants that listed some of the players names, but i believe this is the only one that is dated. Barnstorming stuff is difficult to find, sounds like you have found some really nice items.

Rick

1953 Jackie Robinson all-star resized.jpg

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by rlevy

sure Jeff, here you go. I posted a photo before when I bought it, but never a problem showing it again. There were a few other JR barnstorming pennants that listed some of the players names, but i believe this is the only one that is dated. Barnstorming stuff is difficult to find, sounds like you have found some really nice items.

Rick

Attachment 526697

Amazing colors on this pennant, just beautiful …

[thetahat]

Only I care about this, but I was able to get closer to completing the set of 1969 ASCO pennants in cloth. I had this but in badly faded condition. Still need Giants, Expos, and A’s (I have these in felt) and could upgrade condition of a few others.

Was able to get down to the National last night but it was pretty dry as far as pennants …

[perezfan]

Not surprised. I have been to at least 8 Nationals, and have very rarely made any additions of significance to the collection. I have, however seen a few gems that I ended up winning from auction houses who were simply showing them off (but not selling) at the National.

[thetahat]

Definitely knows better:

https://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-...l?itemid=61005

[perezfan]

How on earth could they let those get through without disclaimers!

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Only I care about this, but I was able to get closer to completing the set of 1969 ASCO pennants in cloth. I had this but in badly faded condition. Still need Giants, Expos, and A’s (I have these in felt) and could upgrade condition of a few others.

Was able to get down to the National last night but it was pretty dry as far as pennants …

Great looking pennant. I noticed that the MLB logo on the cloth version is red instead of white on the felt version. Is that consistent across the other cloth pennants from ASCO?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

Great looking pennant. I noticed that the MLB logo on the cloth version is red instead of white on the felt version. Is that consistent across the other cloth pennants from ASCO?

Interesting. This one here is felt and it has the same color MLB stamp. Now there are many versions in felt, some with “THE VET”, etc. and done are pressed (stiff) felt that would have been mid 70s. I guess they had different colors.

[UKCardGuy]

This is the photo that I have in my Pennant Catalog. Sorry for the small image size but I can't find the full size image at the moment.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Definitely knows better: url]https://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=61005[/url]

All repros, even the red bum?

[thetahat]

Nah the Emmet Kelly is legit. The top two are repros. The green pennant could be, really have to hold it to know. Bottom two are vintage.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Only I care about this, but I was able to get closer to completing the set of 1969 ASCO pennants in cloth. I had this but in badly faded condition. Still need Giants, Expos, and A’s (I have these in felt) and could upgrade condition of a few others.

Was able to get down to the National last night but it was pretty dry as far as pennants …

I'm surprised those creases in the paint didn't scare you off. I'm sure an upgrade is now on your wantlist.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'm surprised those creases in the paint didn't scare you off. I'm sure an upgrade is now on your wantlist.

Not at all. I’m fine with it. Paint is very heavy, can’t imagine a cloth version surviving without cracks.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by UKCardGuy

This is the photo that I have in my Pennant Catalog. Sorry for the small image size but I can't find the full size image at the moment.

Yeah that’s a “VET” pennant, mid 70s. These all share the ASCO designs, along with the ones with the circled M. (I think it’s an M?) Kyle knows a lot more about this and has written about it on his blog. I can only say, my first ever pennants purchased for me as a six year old in 1976 were Mets and Reds pennants with “VET” stamped on them. Bought at Veterans Stadium.

[thetahat]

Going through my tubs I came across this guy, not a terribly pricey pennant but a beautiful design nonetheless. The logo screams 1960s. This one is likely from around 1967-68 as the tassels (tucked behind) are paper-like and not soft felt.

I know this Angel graphic has appeared on the LAA stadium pennant, but does he show up elsewhere before the name change to ‘California’?

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yeah that’s a “VET” pennant, mid 70s. These all share the ASCO designs, along with the ones with the circled M. (I think it’s an M?) Kyle knows a lot more about this and has written about it on his blog. I can only say, my first ever pennants purchased for me as a six year old in 1976 were Mets and Reds pennants with “VET” stamped on them. Bought at Veterans Stadium.

Thanks Greg. I've updated my notes accordingly.

Incidentally, I'm still adding to my Pennant Catalog. It's now up 1,480 pennants
(including variations). If anyone's interested in the latest version, just let me know.

[atawolfe]

I recently bought this pennant at an auction, and I am looking for any help about it's authenticity. I am a card guy and have never done anything with pennants, so any help is appreciated!

[ooo-ribay]

I have never seen anything like that, but the “red flag” for me is how crisp and new the lettering looks, as opposed to the fabric. Hopefully, I’m wrong.

[Chstrite]

Hi, asking for a "friend." He has this pennant and wondered if anyone had any details on it beyond the obvious. How rare is it, what might be its value, etc.

Thanks.

Charlie

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by atawolfe

I recently bought this pennant at an auction, and I am looking for any help about it's authenticity. I am a card guy and have never done anything with pennants, so any help is appreciated!

There was an auction awhile back where a Boston bar sold off a bunch of allegedly vintage pennants. Something like McGreevy’s? Anyway I thought I saw something like this pennant in the auction, which did contain many other pennants which clearly weren’t authentic. Not to say this one isn’t but hoping someone else knows more about what I am talking about …

[thetahat]

Yep now I see it on Liveauctioneers. I have serious doubts that this is circa 1903, but it could be an old homemade pennant. It appears that the lettering is glued on and not sewn. That’s a red flag. Also a Boston Braves pennant from the same bar was auctioned, same type of canvas-like material, and it has the exact logo used on a late 40s pennants made by Keezer.

That being said it appears that you have a nice item that hung for a long time in what seems to be a legendary bar. So with documentation it still presumably has value. I’d still be interested in what others think but I feel confident saying someone made this many years ago specifically as an ornament for the bar.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yep now I see it on Liveauctioneers. I have serious doubts that this is circa 1903, but it could be an old homemade pennant. It appears that the lettering is glued on and not sewn. That’s a red flag. Also a Boston Braves pennant from the same bar was auctioned, same type of canvas-like material, and it has the exact logo used on a late 40s pennants made by Keezer.

That being said it appears that you have a nice item that hung for a long time in what seems to be a legendary bar. So with documentation it still presumably has value. I’d still be interested in what others think but I feel confident saying someone made this many years ago specifically as an ornament for the bar.

Agree

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yep now I see it on Liveauctioneers. I have serious doubts that this is circa 1903, but it could be an old homemade pennant. It appears that the lettering is glued on and not sewn. That’s a red flag. Also a Boston Braves pennant from the same bar was auctioned, same type of canvas-like material, and it has the exact logo used on a late 40s pennants made by Keezer.

That being said it appears that you have a nice item that hung for a long time in what seems to be a legendary bar. So with documentation it still presumably has value. I’d still be interested in what others think but I feel confident saying someone made this many years ago specifically as an ornament for the bar.

Now I remember… yeah, the McGreevey stuff. But do we even know for sure it “hung for a long time”?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Now I remember… yeah, the McGreevey stuff. But do we even know for sure it “hung for a long time”?

No, just a guess. I will say, the staining looks sort of deliberate, odd that it is mostly along both long edges.

The description of the item does not elude to it being “original” i.e. circa 1903. Just that it hung for a long time. I gotta believe, if they thought themselves that they had a 119 year old pennant of the first ALWS team, they would know to put it in a separate auction. Something like this, if it was original? Probably looking at a hundred grand.

[thetahat]

Speaking of which, what is the most money known to be spent on a pennant? If my memory serves me correct, a 1919 White Sox “grommet style” pennant sold in auction for $34K. Any others in contention?

[aelefson]

I believe the McGreevy items were mostly made in the last 20-25 years. That bar opened around the early 2000s I think. I would be very cautious to value any of their items beyond what modern reproductions and fantasy items go for.

Alan

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by aelefson

I believe the McGreevy items were mostly made in the last 20-25 years. That bar opened around the early 2000s I think. I would be very cautious to value any of their items beyond what modern reproductions and fantasy items go for.

Alan

Ah did not know that. I assumed this was some sort of legendary tavern.

[atawolfe]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Now I remember… yeah, the McGreevey stuff. But do we even know for sure it “hung for a long time”?

This item is indeed from McGreeveys, which closed in early 2020 due to Covid. The bar was opened in 2008, and was patterned after the '3rd Base Saloon', which opened around the turn of the century, and is considered by many to be the first 'sports' bar. It was started my a man named Michael (Nuf Ced) McGreevy, who was a huge Boston baseball fan. He had an extreme amount of pictures and memorabilia in his bar, especially for the time period. When prohibition hit, it put him out of business. Most of the pictures and documents were donated to the Boston Public Library, where they still reside today.

When McGreevys opened in 2008, it was patterned after the original 3rd Base Saloon, so the owners went to the library and asked for copies of some of the old pictures to hang in the bar. They also sought out some original items to be displayed in the bar. I won a few of those as well, and they are indeed original.

During the auction a few months ago, the auctioneer would state whether the item was authentic, or a reprint. For this particular pennant, he stated that they did not know if was authentic or not.

I bought it with the assumption that it was not real. However, after putting my hands on it for the first time, I am wondering if it may be authentic.

Everyone's help is much appreciated. I guess my next question would be, who could I take it to that could inspect the fabric/lettering/etc and tell what time period it is from?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by atawolfe

This item is indeed from McGreeveys, which closed in early 2020 due to Covid. The bar was opened in 2008, and was patterned after the '3rd Base Saloon', which opened around the turn of the century, and is considered by many to be the first 'sports' bar. It was started my a man named Michael (Nuf Ced) McGreevy, who was a huge Boston baseball fan. He had an extreme amount of pictures and memorabilia in his bar, especially for the time period. When prohibition hit, it put him out of business. Most of the pictures and documents were donated to the Boston Public Library, where they still reside today.

When McGreevys opened in 2008, it was patterned after the original 3rd Base Saloon, so the owners went to the library and asked for copies of some of the old pictures to hang in the bar. They also sought out some original items to be displayed in the bar. I won a few of those as well, and they are indeed original.

During the auction a few months ago, the auctioneer would state whether the item was authentic, or a reprint. For this particular pennant, he stated that they did not know if was authentic or not.

I bought it with the assumption that it was not real. However, after putting my hands on it for the first time, I am wondering if it may be authentic.

Everyone's help is much appreciated. I guess my next question would be, who could I take it to that could inspect the fabric/lettering/etc and tell what time period it is from?

Honestly, I’m not sure anyone will be able to even remotely pin that down for you. The material appears to be unlike anything used in mass produced pennants, of any age, if this is homemade there’s almost no way of telling.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Speaking of which, what is the most money known to be spent on a pennant? If my memory serves me correct, a 1919 White Sox “grommet style” pennant sold in auction for $34K. Any others in contention?

That one (from the Sotheby's Halper Auction) did hold the record until this one eclipsed it...

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...rsized-pennant

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Honestly, I’m not sure anyone will be able to even remotely pin that down for you. The material appears to be unlike anything used in mass produced pennants, of any age, if this is homemade there’s almost no way of telling.

And even if you knew the age of the canvas, you wouldn’t necessarily know the age of the pennant.

[MK]

Managed to acquire this scarce Cubs pennant from the 1940s. Seems to use the same batter as on the Playball pennant, and the same font as the 1945 World Series pennant. Same manufacturer perhaps?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Managed to acquire this scarce Cubs pennant from the 1940s. Seems to use the same batter as on the Playball pennant, and the same font as the 1945 World Series pennant. Same manufacturer perhaps?

Beautiful pennant with great color. Also same batter graphic as on the 1942 Yankees. Looks like a little cubbie on the jersey?

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Beautiful pennant with great color. Also same batter graphic as on the 1942 Yankees. Looks like a little cubbie on the jersey?

Thanks. I love that little Cubbie on the batters uniform.

[bocca001]

Thanks to Fballguy for attending the National and finding these pennants for me. Both are very rare and were high up on my want list. The fact that the 49ers is rare is maybe not surprising, as it looks old and different from many others of the period. The Giants is one of those ones that doesn't seem all that special until you try to find one.

[ooo-ribay]

I wish I had someone bird dogging for ME!!!

[bocca001]

And two more. In super nice shape