Great Find! Please help identify players

Hello everyone, I went to the card show in Cincinnati today, and after I suffered through a 45 minute construction blockade on north 71/75 I finally made it to the show and found a type 1 photo of the 1916 reds team. I was really excited because it has Fred Toney in it and a Bellinger photographer mark at the bottom as well. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out who the rest of the players are. Here is the scan below. I was really excited when I held the photo stock and realized that it was actually a period photo. Thanks for the help.

[Brian Van Horn]

Interesting piece since it predates the Mathewson trade which included Edd Roush and Bill McKechnie. The player who identifies the timeframe is Buck Herzog who is the second player from the left in the middle row. Next to Herzog is Tommy Griffith. Herzog's left hand is on the shoulder of Ivy Wingo in the front row. The player third from the right in the second row is Heinie Groh. Fred Mollwitz is the last player to the right of the middle row. The next to last player in the front row is Pete Schneider. The first player in the second row is football Hall of Famer Greasy Neale. More IDs coming.

Thanks for the help so far Brian. I can't wait to here the rest of your id help. That sticker on the bottom right is not on the photo but on the plastic protective sleeve it is in. I am going to go get a frame for it tomorrow and a nice archive matte for the frame so the photo does not stick to it etc. I had been looking for a old team photo with Toney in it for a while. I know it is tough to find 1916-1917 reds stuff so I was so glad I found it.

Tony Turner

[Brian Van Horn]

Tommy Clarke is the first player on the far left of the first row. The second player from the right in the back row is Clarence Mitchell. The last player in the back row is Ken Williams, baseball's first 30-30 man. Red Killefer is the middle player in the second row with the stern look on his face.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

You may wish to use www.baseball-reference.com for photo ID help. Click on "Teams", then "Cincinnati Reds", then go to the 1916 roster. Most players will have a headshot photo in their individual player pages, making identification much easier for you!

[Bridwell]

Is that Hal Chase, 3rd from right in front row?

Thanks for the help guys. That might just be Hal Chase because he started pretty much the entire season for the reds in 1916 if I remember right.

Tony Turner

Hey Ron I just took Mr Birkholm's advice and did a head shot examination between Hal Chase on baseball reference and on the photo and I would say with about 90% confidence that it is Hal Chase. He played 142 games at 1B for them in 1916. I will try to match more soon.

Tony Turner

[milkit1]

def not chase 3rd from right in front row. Remote possibility that could be him squinting next to herzog

[milkit1]

that being said, Buck Herzog was 5 '11 according to Baseball Reference and Chase was six foot. The guy mext to Herzog appears about 3-4 inches taller

[Brian Van Horn]

Emil Huhn is the second player from the left in the top row.

[mybuddyinc]

"The player who identifies the timeframe is Buck Herzog who is the second player from the left in the middle row."

Great photo, can't add anything ................ but it looks like Herzog is putting the malocchio on the two team mates in front of him .............

[Brian Van Horn]

William "Rawmeat Bill" Rodgers may be the second guy from the left in the third row.

[docpatlv]

It does look like Hal Chase next to Herzog IMHO.

Mike

Thanks everyone, your help has been wonderful. As the Hal Chase conversation is still going, like I said, odds are he has to be in the photo somewhere, he played the whole season as a starter for the team.

[Brian Van Horn]

Limb McKenry is the third player from the left in the third row and to the left of Toney.

[rhettyeakley]

A quick look and I think Emil Huhn is 2nd from left top row and Al Schulz may be far right 2nd row down (3rd row up), short guy next to the very tall Limb McKenry is probably Frank Emmer, and Bill Louden may be the guy next to Wingo but I may be wrong.

[timn1]

Ivy Wingo is second from left in the bottom row

[joeadcock]

S. Gross

I haven't heard that malocchio term since Frank Lorenzo put it on Archie Bunker in one of the early 70's episodes.

Nice photo and cool shot of Herzog.

Frank

More great info guys thanks again. I think we have positive id's on most of the players now.

Tony Turner

After looking at a few more pics of Hal Chase I think Sean is right and that is Hal Chase standing next to buck herzog. He has that same unique wrinkle pattern around his eyes and face that several of Chase's photos have. The photo that really helped me the most with that one was his pic at First Base in Deadball Stars of National League.

Tony Turner

[HercDriver]

I think the guy in the dark suit with his head cut off is Joe Jackson...dead ringer if you squint one eye.

Cheers,
Geno

[HercDriver]

I wonder what the number "2" is all about? Five guys are flashing the "2" sign, although one in the front row is doing it European style. One guy is banging out a double "2." Great pic!

Take Care,
Geno

Thanks Geno.

TT

[Bunker]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

I wonder what the number "2" is all about? Five guys are flashing the "2" sign, although one in the front row is doing it European style. One guy is banging out a double "2." Great pic!

Take Care,
Geno

I wonder if it has anything to do with honoring "Rabbit" Robinson who died? I think he was playing with Cincinnati at the time.

That is a very good theory. A fellow board member emailed me a pic of the 1916 reds from the spalding guide and it is the photo they used for the book so it has the full roster. While I thought Hal Chase must have made the photo he did not. Here is a scan of the spalding image:

[rhettyeakley]

The guy in the picture that was bugging me that I couldn't id was Heinie Peitz. I knew the face was familiar and just didn't put 2 and 2 together on him! I was 4 for 4 in my earlier post though!

[rhettyeakley]

Also, did you notice the pictures are ever so slightly different? Check out Herzog's right hand placement. Obviously taken seconds apart BUT they are in fact different images.