T206 350/460 series (illustrated) and why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive

[tedzan]

The BROAD LEAF 460 cards exist ONLY in the 350/460 series. Only 35 of the 63 subjects in this series
were theoretically printed with the BROAD LEAF 460 backs.

There are 8 subjects from Group A that have yet to be discovered. I expect these T206's will eventually
be found with BROAD LEAF 460 backs......

Ames (hands above head)
Bender (no trees)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Donlin (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Magee (bat)


If you have (or know of) any of these 8 guys with BROAD LEAF 460 backs, please show or tell us of them.


Thanks,

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Group B






UZIT

.



Unlike the missing BROAD LEAF 460 and red HINDU subjects in Group A, all 28 subjects in Group B have been confirmed with the UZIT back.


350/460 series...............................28 subjects

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball-St Louis)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)



TED Z
.

[Leon]

There sure was some nice eye candy in this thread. Thanks for sharing, everyone (especially Teddy Z)!!

[tedzan]

Group B






AMERICAN BEAUTY 460

.



Unlike the missing BROAD LEAF 460 and red HINDU subjects in Group A, all 28 subjects in Group B have been confirmed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back.


350/460 series...............................28 subjects (complete)

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball-St Louis)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)



TED Z
.

[Gradedcardman]

Great stuff guys. Thanks for keeping up with it all. In my experience with the PD 42's the ones not confirmed by sale or scan are:


Bergen Catching
Chance Batting
Murray Portrait
Overall Hands at Waist (Blue Sky)

I think the Cobb Red portrait and Joss pitching could of been double printed. Simply an observation based on the quantity seen and sold over the years.

Scot, i'm a year late on answering your question !!

[tedzan]

Hi Adam

We ran a survey in April 2009 regarding the red Cobb vs its 30 backs (T206, T213, T214, T215, etc.).

The results of a survey clearly indicate that the red Cobb with Piedmont 460, Factory #42 must have been Double-Printed.
Check-it-out......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...d+cobb&page=18


I cannot speak for the T206 Joss (pitching).


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

There sure was some nice eye candy in this thread. Thanks for sharing, everyone (especially Teddy Z)!!

Thanks, Leon

Quoting Jackie Gleason's favorite saying.... " How sweet it is ".... all this "eye candy"


TED Z
.

[Luke]

Pat,

It probably doesn't matter much to the point you were making, but I believe my Overall makes at least 4 (could be one of those, but looks slightly different). I bought it during the kw1b1 auctions.

Originally Posted by Pat R

Hi Scot,

There could be a number of reasons why but the no sale of Lajoie from the no
prints and Duffy from the subjects that were printed with this back stand out.

There were three Bergen & Overall's that sold and two Murray's.

Attachment 229925
Attachment 229926
Attachment 229927
Attachment 229928
Attachment 229929
Attachment 229930

[tedzan]

T206 350/460 series (illustrated) and why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive


Hey guys,

Let's stick with the topic of this thread......the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series cards. These cards are clearly illustrated in Group A and Group B.

Regarding these posted cards with SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #30 backs......

Bergen (catching)
Howell (hand on hip)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

These 4 guys are 460-only series subjects of which the SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #30 is a normal back.

Injecting these 4 into the conversation in this thread tends to confuse readers who are trying to understand the complexities of the 350/460 series.

The 460-only series cards are for another thread on another day.

Thank you.

TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Hey Guys,

Still hoping to get some inputs from you regarding the missing 8 subjects with BROAD LEAF 460 backs (post #51 )......and,
the missing 4 subjects red HINDU backs (post #49 ).


I'm traveling to the Valley Forge Philly Show today, perhaps I'll find some of them there .


TED Z
.

[Gradedcardman]

Thanks Ted. I can assure you I am familiar with all the Factory 42 posts on Net54.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Adam

We ran a survey in April 2009 regarding the red Cobb vs its 30 backs (T206, T213, T214, T215, etc.).

The results of a survey clearly indicate that the red Cobb with Piedmont 460, Factory #42 must have been Double-Printed.
Check-it-out......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...d+cobb&page=18


I cannot speak for the T206 Joss (pitching).


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

T206 350/460 series (illustrated) and why certain T-brands are mutually-exclusive


Hey guys,

Let's stick with the topic of this thread......the 63 subjects in the 350/460 series cards. These cards are clearly illustrated in Group A and Group B.

Regarding these posted cards with SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #30 backs......

Bergen (catching)
Howell (hand on hip)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

These 4 guys are 460-only series subjects of which the SWEET CAPORAL 350-460, Factory #30 is a normal back.

Injecting these 4 into the conversation in this thread tends to confuse readers who are trying to understand the complexities of the 350/460 series.

The 460-only series cards are for another thread on another day.

Thank you.

TED Z
.

Ted,

If you're concerned about confusing readers you should clear up this discrepancy involving your group A subjects for those that search the archives.

Your group A subjects are all AB460 no-prints but in this thread about the
AB460 subset you put together you have four of the group A subjects listed
in your set. Ames (hands over head), Baker, Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
and Snodgrass (Catching).
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...page=2&t=91361

[tedzan]

Hey Pat

Don't worry guy, most readers of my threads are not confused. My T206 theory's and the empirical knowledge I've gained from putting together various sets (and sub-sets)
these past 37 years. And, my collecting experience that I have very generously shared with members of this forum speaks for itself.
Anyone here is free to check-out the T206 information posted in the "Consolidated access to the 15 - T206 T-brand (front/back) surveys....UPDATED " thread which
Leon has archived......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=132611&page=6

And, I am surprised at your remarks regarding my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 information and the near complete run (70/74) of these cards that I have put together. It has all
been documented in this Net54 thread...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=124927&page=5
Which you are up to date on, since you have posted on this thread in 2016.


However, you choose to go back 8+ years to a thread that I posted, in which I listed 4 mistakes (out of 70 cards). Three of which (Baker, Elberfeld, and Snodgrass) in which
I discovered later that they actually had to be AB 350 cards. Unfortunately, these 3 cards in my collection had back damage and it wasn't easy to tell whether they were 350
or 460 (Factory #25 or Factory #42, respectively). Furthermore, back then Bill Brown's T206 Super-Set Excel list indicated that these 3 subjects (plus Ames) were confirmed
AB 460 cards. And, I have since then proven that these 4 subjects could not be AB 460 cards.


Anyhow, I'll tell you what really "ticks me off" about your remarks. I heard these EXACT words from some one 8 years ago (who doesn't post on Net54 any more). I sense
that this person has put you up to posting his 8-year old remarks (it's typical of his sick style). So, I dare you to deny that this is why you posted these negative remarks ? ?

I didn't think this was your style !


TED Z
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
LOOKING for these 4 - T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 cards)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)....TINKER (bat off shoulder)
.

[Pat R]

[QUOTE=tedzan;1607413]Hey Pat

Don't worry guy, most readers of my threads are not confused. My T206 theory's and the empirical knowledge I've gained from putting together various sets (and sub-sets)
these past 37 years. And, my collecting experience that I have very generously shared with members of this forum speaks for itself.
Anyone here is free to check-out the T206 information posted in the "Consolidated access to the 15 - T206 T-brand (front/back) surveys....UPDATED " thread which
Leon has archived......
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=132611&page=6

And, I am surprised at your remarks regarding my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 information and the near complete run (70/74) of these cards that I have put together. It has all
been documented in this Net54 thread...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=124927&page=5
Which you are up to date on, since you have posted on this thread in 2016.


However, you choose to go back 8+ years to a thread that I posted, in which I listed 4 mistakes (out of 70 cards). Three of which (Baker, Elberfeld, and Snodgrass) in which
I discovered later that they actually had to be AB 350 cards. Unfortunately, these 3 cards in my collection had back damage and it wasn't easy to tell whether they were 350
or 460 (Factory #25 or Factory #42, respectively). Furthermore, back then Bill Brown's T206 Super-Set Excel list indicated that these 3 subjects (plus Ames) were confirmed
AB 460 cards. And, I have since then proven that these 4 subjects could not be AB 460 cards.


Anyhow, I'll tell you what really "ticks me off" about your remarks. I heard these EXACT words from some one 8 years ago (who doesn't post on Net54 any more). I sense
that this person has put you up to posting his 8-year old remarks (it's typical of his sick style). So, I dare you to deny that this is why you posted these negative remarks ? ?

I didn't think this was your style !


TED Z


No Ted nobody put me up to posting this. I have noticed discrepancy's
in several of your posts. I refrained from posting about them but I have had
enough of your condescending remarks like uninformed, ignorant, naïve, ect...

There is no doubt that you have done a lot of research on this set but for
me it is negated by the fact that you can't admit when you make a "mistake".

By the way Snodgrass (catching) wasn't printed with any of the American
Beauty backs so your back damage excuse doesn't cut it with me.

[tedzan]

[QUOTE=Pat R;1607544]

No Ted nobody put me up to posting this.

There is no doubt that you have done a lot of research on this set but for
me it is negated by the fact that you can't admit when you make a "mistake".

Hey folks....if some one posts critical comments about you today that are identical to what you've heard from some one else 8 years ago, what is the probability
of this occurrence being just coincidental ? The probability is some where between 100,000 - Million to 1.

So....knowing you have a connection to that other party....you are not being truthful.

OK, you want to talk about mistakes....I admitted 8 years ago that I made on some of those T206 front/back cards. We were all still learning about The Monster.

And, what is more important is that my subsequent research resulted in significant information that is presented in this thread to Net54 members who appreciate
all this "nitty-gritty" stuff regarding T206's.

So, let's discuss your mistakes starting with this thread......in posts #45 and #47 you posted images of 460-only series subjects (Howell, Bergen, Overall, Murray)
that DO NOT pertain to the 350/460 series cards that this thread is devoted to. It is a distraction in the subject matter being discussed here.

If you want to talk 460-only series cards, why not simply start another thread.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

[QUOTE=tedzan;1607576]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Hey folks....if some one posts critical comments about you today that are identical to what you've heard from some one else 8 years ago, what is the probability
of this occurrence being just coincidental ? The probability is some where between 100,000 - Million to 1.

So....knowing you have a connection to that other party....you are not being truthful.
OK, you want to talk about mistakes....I admitted 8 years ago that I made on some of those T206 front/back cards. We were all still learning about The Monster.

And, what is more important is that my subsequent research resulted in significant information that is presented in this thread to Net54 members who appreciate
all this "nitty-gritty" stuff regarding T206's.

So, let's discuss your mistakes starting with this thread......in posts #45 and #47 you posted images of 460-only series subjects (Howell, Bergen, Overall, Murray)
that DO NOT pertain to the 350/460 series cards that this thread is devoted to. It is a distraction in the subject matter being discussed here.

If you want to talk 460-only series cards, why not simply start another thread.


TED Z
.

Well this statement is ironic Ted. I have been truthful, no one influenced what
I have said and frankly I don't care if you believe me . I'm sure
it's similar to what a few other members have posted in the past because it's
based on facts, you have said you owned cards that are no prints and when
confronted about them you continue to lie about it.

Now how about being truthful about the Snodgrass.

[tedzan]

[QUOTE=Pat R;1607608]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Well this statement is ironic Ted. I have been truthful, no one influenced what
I have said and frankly I don't care if you believe me . I'm sure
it's similar to what a few other members have posted in the past because it's
based on facts, you have said you owned cards that are no prints and when
confronted about them you continue to lie about it.

Now how about being truthful about the Snodgrass.

Hey Pat

1st....I had Street (catching) mistakenly identified as Snodgrass (catching).

OK, I made an honest mistake....give me a break !

And, I don't believe you, Pat. You heard that "B-S" from your buddy, and you know it.

Can we now get back to Dec 2016....instead of harping on some thing in Nov 2008. This "B-S" of your's is insane (it's sick). ! !


TED
.

[Gradedcardman]

Ted,

I would love to see a scan of the 460's you have put together. I am going after the no frames now as well. Needed a new conquest after almost being done with the PD 42's (lacking 1 based on my calculations).

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

Ted,

I would love to see a scan of the 460's you have put together. I am going after the no frames now as well. Needed a new conquest after almost being done with the PD 42's (lacking 1 based on my calculations).

Hello Adam

Sixty-six of my AB 460 cards can be seen in this thread I started 4 years ago titled......" Show off your AMERICAN BEAUTY's....T205's and/or T206's ".
Check-it-out......http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=158706


Please email me....I have some thing interesting to tell you.

tedzan11@comcast.net


TED Z
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
LOOKING for these 4 - T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 cards)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)....TINKER (bat off shoulder)
.

[tedzan]

Deleted
.

[tedzan]

While the Black LENOX "connection" is still a work in progress, the 17 confirmed Brown LENOX cards (to date) indicate a definite trend they are exclusively from Group B.

Group B





350/460 series Brown LENOX......17 subjects (to date) confirmed

Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Wagner (bat on right shoulder)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

If this trend continues, eventually I expect that we will discover the remaining 11 subjects from Group B with Brown LENOX backs.

I would appreciate your inputs regarding this subject.

Thanks,

TED Z
.

[Gradedcardman]

Ted Z,

I'll have some Lenox backs on here tomorrow !! Looking forward to keeping this alive !!

[Gradedcardman]

Here is a good example of the Brown writing.

[tedzan]

Hi Adam

It's an excellent and clear example of a brown LENOX.

Thanks for posting it,


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Futhermore, there are 6 subjects in the 460-only series that have been confirmed with brown LENOX backs.
They are......

Chase (trophy)
Latham
Marquard (pitching)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)

I expect more brown LENOX from the 460-only series will eventually be discovered.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

Ted Z,

I'll have some Lenox backs on here tomorrow !! Looking forward to keeping this alive !!

Hi Adam

Consider the following....I have an idea that there may be a connection between the 9 subjects in the 460-only series
confirmed with PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 backs and the brown LENOX cards. What's your thinking on this linkage ?


PIEDMONT #42...................brown LENOX

Chase (trophy)......................Chase (trophy)
Latham.................................Latham
Marquard (follow thru)............Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)...................Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)......................Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting).......................?
Schaefer (Washington)............?
Seymour (portrait)..................?
Wiltse (portrait-cap)................Wiltse (portrait-cap)


TED Z
.

[Gradedcardman]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Adam

Consider the following....I have an idea that there may be a connection between the 9 subjects in the 460-only series
confirmed with PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 backs and the brown LENOX cards. What's your thinking on this linkage ?


PIEDMONT #42...................brown LENOX

Chase (trophy)......................Chase (trophy)
Latham.................................Latham
Marquard (follow thru)............Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)...................Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)......................Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting).......................?
Schaefer (Washington)............?
Seymour (portrait)..................?
Wiltse (portrait-cap)................Wiltse (portrait-cap)


TED Z
.

At first glance I see that they are New York and Washington players...I will dig in a bit more this weekend to see what else I can find.