Should for sale listings be allowed in the b/s/t without prices

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Does common sense ever come into play on these boards?? Ever??

I don't sell anything here, so I don't have a horse in the race as the saying goes. But why in hell would you force people to list sell prices? The boards are filled with threads saying something to the effect of "Can you believe how much the (enter specific card here) sold by (enter AH or ebay seller name here) went for last night???" And the prices realized are always way over the top. So if someone is looking to sell a rare card, they want to get as much as they possibly can for it, don't they?? Capitalism. So there has to be some leeway with people looking to sell their goods here. If you're interested in the card, send the user a PM and negotiate with him. But, if for some reason you're upset or offended by this like an entitled little kid, then ignore people who don't list prices. Common frickin' sense.

And let's say you're able to convince Leon to make a rule forcing everyone to list a selling price on the B/S/T. The first thing I would do if I decided to sell anything would be to list it like this:
For Sale: Bernie Carbo rookie card for sale. $1,000,000 or best offer.

I posted a price, didn't I? The rule was obeyed. Now what? Are you going to lobby Leon to force people to list 'reasonable' selling prices now? And which of you people is going to be the official arbiter of what a reasonable price is, huh????

Come on!!!!!

+1, I hear you!!

[Jason]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Does common sense ever come into play on these boards?? Ever??

I don't sell anything here, so I don't have a horse in the race as the saying goes. But why in hell would you force people to list sell prices? The boards are filled with threads saying something to the effect of "Can you believe how much the (enter specific card here) sold by (enter AH or ebay seller name here) went for last night???" And the prices realized are always way over the top. So if someone is looking to sell a rare card, they want to get as much as they possibly can for it, don't they?? Capitalism. So there has to be some leeway with people looking to sell their goods here. If you're interested in the card, send the user a PM and negotiate with him. But, if for some reason you're upset or offended by this like an entitled little kid, then ignore people who don't list prices. Common frickin' sense.

And let's say you're able to convince Leon to make a rule forcing everyone to list a selling price on the B/S/T. The first thing I would do if I decided to sell anything would be to list it like this:
For Sale: Bernie Carbo rookie card for sale. $1,000,000 or best offer.

I posted a price, didn't I? The rule was obeyed. Now what? Are you going to lobby Leon to force people to list 'reasonable' selling prices now? And which of you people is going to be the official arbiter of what a reasonable price is, huh????

Come on!!!!!

Very good post. I have zero problem Pm'ing someone if I want the card listed. A lack of price would not deter me. Its slow going for my interests so I cant be picky.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

For this thread to go this long is absolutely unbelievable! I mean really, Are you kidding? Just when you thought you saw it all, well......No price listed, go about your business. What is the mystery? If you are really interested, wouldn't you inquire about the card????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYM4jIxCJ14

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

If you are really interested, wouldn't you inquire about the card????

If a seller were interested in selling their card, wouldn't they post a price? We've had this conversation before about dealer tables at shows. Most agree they bypass dealer tables without prices. Why should a message board be different? If you and others want to waste your time on a card that may or not be for sale, by all means do it. I could care less. But don't make those of us that don't bother asking for a price (or scans) feel stupid for just moving on past those types of listings.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYM4jIxCJ14

Pete that is funny.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If a seller were interested in selling their card, wouldn't they post a price? We've had this conversation before about dealer tables at shows. Most agree they bypass dealer tables without prices. Why should a message board be different? If you and others want to waste your time on a card that may or not be for sale, by all means do it. I could care less. But don't make those of us that don't bother asking for a price (or scans) feel stupid for just moving on past those types of listings.

You are wasting your time common sense and hundreds of posts saying the same thing will not work on this subject.

[CMIZ5290]

I was wondering when these two assholes were going to rear their heads. My God, It's like a bad itch. I cant reach it......

[CMIZ5290]

Hey Pete- Get your ass off the ice fishing and weigh in!....

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Hey Pete- Get your ass off the ice fishing and weigh in!....

I believe I did weigh in around post 33.

[ullmandds]

Let's make a new poll I think Kevin should have his own section!😬

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I believe I did weigh in around post 33.

Was that the post where you said you actually bought a card from PWCC despite all of your criticism about them? I know you miss Wonka, I'm sure he misses you too....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I was wondering when these two assholes were going to rear their heads. My God, It's like a bad itch. I cant reach it......

Screw you, you obnoxious piece of shit prick. At least I can rear my head and it's not buried deep up my ass like yours is.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Screw you, you obnoxious piece of shit prick. At least I can rear my head and it's not buried deep up my ass like yours is.

Ouch, that hurt...

[ullmandds]

Wonka is missed!

And at this time just to summarize...an overwhelming majority of board members feel that prices should be mandatory for items for sale in the B/s/t.

Please commence bickering!

[CMIZ5290]

Pete- Fair enough, if Leon wants this I understand and will abide. Again, 90% or better of my threads have prices....

[FourStrikes]

.

[CMIZ5290]

what is a shit prick??

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Wonka is missed!

And at this time just to summarize...an overwhelming majority of board members feel that prices should be mandatory for items for sale in the B/s/t.

Please commence bickering!

Like 6 cavities without pain killers.....

[Lordstan]

My two cents is this.

While I put prices in most of my listings I don't have a problem with ones without. If I see something I want, I'll ask. Simple really. Even if you are someone who passes by any listings without prices, I don't think it should be against the rules.

I think all the vitriol about not listing prices being underhanded is a bit dramatic. While I am sure there are people that are underhanded, I think the majority are just people who either aren't sure if they are clear as to the real market value or, they aren't clear if they really want to sell the item.

I think those that say that listing a price should be absolute and compare it to a dealer at a show, are missing out on the fact that most of the people buying and selling here aren't dealers. They are collectors who are mostly selling so they can buy something else. There is more than just an objective price to many items we own. For many there may be an emotional attachment to an item that makes it hard to price. Dealers who list items on the board for sale, like Richard Simon and Jim Stinson, buy and sell as a business, so for them, the majority of the items are strictly about profit and loss. For many of the collectors here, it may not be that simple and as such, establishing value may not be that simple.
Perhaps as a buyer, you couldn't care less about someones emotional attachment, but it may make a difference on whether they even offer a card up for sale at all.

While I understand some peoples frustrations, I hope Leon doesn't change the rules as I think it would lead to less listings and less stuff coming to market.

Best to all,
Mark

[the 'stache]

I would like sellers to post prices if they are interested in dealing a card they own. Based on the input submitted by many in this discussion, I think it's clear doing so would facilitate more business. However, I don't feel that they should be required to do so. There are so many factors that can drive a card's value one way or the other: centering, edge and corner quality, surface condition, focus, and color quality. Then, there is a card's relative rarity, as well as other considerations including stamps, signatures, errors, miscuts, and previous owners.

That being said, I don't have any problem with a collector putting a card up for sale without posting what specifically they are looking for. Maybe they just want to get an idea on what they could get for the card. They should have that option.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Screw you, you obnoxious piece of shit prick. At least I can rear my head and it's not buried deep up my ass like yours is.

LOL, David I think Kevin was referring to Pete and myself. I am not sure because after the crazy barrage of PM's he sent me after he did not like my answers to questions he directed at me, this is all I see anymore from Kevin.

This message is hidden because CMIZ5290 is on your ignore list.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

The less rules you have, the less rules get broken. I think we have enough rules around here. Of course I'm not a moderator on the board but someone asked for opinions so there you go.

This is how I feel (*except I moderate). ^

Lets keep the cussing to a minimum please. For the record there was never an iota of a chance of this pricing change happening. Never, nadda.....not on this watch. I do like the debate to get everyone's thoughts though. If it was about 90 percent to 10 in favor of doing it, I would consider it. I can't imagine implementing it but I would consider it. Carry on.....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, David I think Kevin was referring to Pete and myself.

I thought he was referring to me and you since we were the 2 previous posters before his post. Either way, it doesn't negate the fact that he's still an obnoxious prick.

[ColumbiaComics]

Yes. Makes it easier on potential buyers

[Danny Smith]

I really don't care but it is a little annoying when there is no price or even a starting point for offers. Posts with no prices or pics are generally ignored.

[T206Collector]

I view the results of the poll as about dead even -- 50% would require prices and the other 50% don't care or want to keep the status quo.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I view the results of the poll as about dead even -- 50% would require prices and the other 50% don't care or want to keep the status quo.

Personally I view an I don't care vote as a non-vote. If in the presidential election one does not care enough to cast a vote because they do not like either option that to me is the same thing. I don't care is pretty much the same as not voting at all! Just my .02

[pbspelly]

I never buy or sell anything on the B/S/T forum, so I really don't care a whole lot. But from a mostly disinterested point of view, I really don't understand the argument that sellers ask for offers when they "don't have a clue" what the value of the card is. If the seller doesn't have a clue what the value of the card is, how would that seller decide whether to accept someone's offer? How would that seller decide whether an offer is fair or not?

From my (admittedly non-participatory) perspective, this argument just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Is the idea that, well, a seller has some idea of what it is worth to himself, so he just want to see what everyone else thinks, and if it is worth significantly more to others than it is to him than he will sell?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

I never buy or sell anything on the B/S/T forum, so I really don't care a whole lot. But from a mostly disinterested point of view, I really don't understand the argument that sellers ask for offers when they "don't have a clue" what the value of the card is. If the seller doesn't have a clue what the value of the card is, how would that seller decide whether to accept someone's offer? How would that seller decide whether an offer is fair or not?

From my (admittedly non-participatory) perspective, this argument just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Is the idea that, well, a seller has some idea of what it is worth to himself, so he just want to see what everyone else thinks, and if it is worth significantly more to others than it is to him than he will sell?

the sellers almost always have a clue...despite creative wording.

price guides have become useless in this hobby...but we have much better, more accurate up to the minute available to us.

the problem is the prices are often manipulated so true values are fuzzy!

[ullmandds]

additionally...I think a lot of folks on this board who actively try to buy and sell at a profit think profits are a sure thing...that its unacceptable to lose money on a deal.

and this is not reality!

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I view the results of the poll as about dead even -- 50% would require prices and the other 50% don't care or want to keep the status quo.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Personally I view an I don't care vote as a non-vote. If in the presidential election one does not care enough to cast a vote because they do not like either option that to me is the same thing. I don't care is pretty much the same as not voting at all! Just my .02

According to Robert's Rule The abstentions could go either way but in usual rules it would not count and the Aye and Nays would be the only votes that matter. Yet it also states that if the vote requires a majority (or 2/3) of votes present, then the abstentions would count as a nay. So it really depends on the person conducting the vote and how they want to count the abstentions.

[jfkheat]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

For this thread to go this long is absolutely unbelievable! I mean really, Are you kidding? Just when you thought you saw it all, well......No price listed, go about your business. What is the mystery? If you are really interested, wouldn't you inquire about the card????

Please correct me if I am wrong concerning the card that got all of this started, didn't a couple members ask for prices but weren't given one?
James

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by jfkheat

Please correct me if I am wrong concerning the card that got all of this started, didn't a couple members ask for prices but weren't given one?
James

I hate to defend Kevin but maybe he did not want to sell to those people. Nothing wrong with that as there are people I will not buy from or sell to.

I also took this poll as an opinion on price vs no price in listings and not for a second did I think it was about adding a new rule to the forum making anyone add prices.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Personally I view an I don't care vote as a non-vote. If in the presidential election one does not care enough to cast a vote because they do not like either option that to me is the same thing. I don't care is pretty much the same as not voting at all! Just my .02

Actually, upon thinking about how the question was phrased, I think that a vote for I don't care is a Yes.
The poll question is "Should for sale listings be allowed in the b/s/t without prices?"
If you say you don't care, it means you have a no opinion. If you have no opinion, then the answer can't be no, because that would mean you do have an opinion. The same doesn't quite hold true on the other side because the behavior is currently allowed. Therefore, you can infer that the voter with no opinion is OK with the current system, which is an affirmative answer.

I think that he should've left out the I don't care choice. If he had I think most of the IDC's would have been Yes'.

[Leon]

The poll question is- "Should members be allowed to post for sale listings in the b/s/t without a price?"

Please help me understand how that wouldn't be adding a rule? That is the way I took it but maybe I misunderstood the question?

If the question were ONLY should sellers put prices, then I would have answered yes instead of no to that question. I answered yes to the poll question as I believe there shouldn't be a rule about it, as already stated.

Originally Posted by bnorth

....

I also took this poll as an opinion on price vs no price in listings and not for a second did I think it was about adding a new rule to the forum making anyone add prices.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Leon

The poll question is- "Should members be allowed to post for sale listings in the b/s/t without a price?"

Please help me understand how that wouldn't be adding a rule? That is the way I took it but maybe I misunderstood the question?

If the question were ONLY should sellers put prices, then I would have answered yes instead of no to that question. I answered yes to the poll question as I believe there shouldn't be a rule about it, as already stated.

I somehow didn't notice the ALLOWED part. Not my first mistake and sure it won't be my last.

100% my fault as I was posting and responding in this thread as if it peoples opinions and not to change any rule.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Leon

The poll question is- "Should members be allowed to post for sale listings in the b/s/t without a price?"

Please help me understand how that wouldn't be adding a rule? That is the way I took it but maybe I misunderstood the question?

If the question were ONLY should sellers put prices, then I would have answered yes instead of no to that question. I answered yes to the poll question as I believe there shouldn't be a rule about it, as already stated.

Based on the discussion that was already taking place I thought it would be interesting to take a poll on whether or not sellers should be allowed to post listings without prices. A lot of the people who commented said they wish listings contained prices but are not in favor of more rules or forcing members to do something. I believe that if the poll simply asked should sellers list prices with their cards the results would be quite different with most agreeing that listings should have prices.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Based on the discussion that was already taking place I thought it would be interesting to take a poll on whether or not sellers should be allowed to post listings without prices. A lot of the people who commented said they wish listings contained prices but are not in favor of more rules or forcing members to do something. I believe that if the poll simply asked should sellers list prices with their cards the results would be quite different with most agreeing that listings should have prices.

Agreed, but I think a bunch of people would've still answered I don't care. I know my answer(IDC) was based more on that question than the one you asked. If I had read it closely, I would've def answered no.

[xplainer]

Well, stupid me thought you HAD to put a price on a card for sale. All the other forums I am involved with, that is a rule. I guess you can flaunt a card here, and it dosen't bring the dollars you want, you can move on.
I might want to exploit that seam.

[Kenny Cole]

What a tempest in a teapot. I'm an IDC, as I stated very early on. If a price isn't listed I simply move on because if the seller can't figure out what he/she wants for it, or is simply fishing, I'm not interested and don't feel like wasting my time. I never have and I don't see that changing.

That being said, if others feel differently, that's great too. I don't care means just that. I really don't get all the hot feelings that seem to have generated over this thread. If this is the biggest issue that we face as collectors, and it absolutely isn't, we're doing really well. Be happy and collect what you want, how you want. Its supposed to be fun. Its a freaking hobby, not life and death.

Kenny

[RichardSimon]

Too much of this can go on when no price is listed:


Seller: I have XYZ for sale.
Buyer: I will pay $100
Seller: no response
Buyer #2: I will pay $125
Seller: no response
Buyer #3: How much do you want?
Seller: $150
Buyer #3: No thanks.
Seller: Ok, buyer #2 it is yours.

I don't do business like that.
I have always posted prices in the BST when I was selling something.
If some want to work that way, go ahead but it is snarky IMO.