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  #1  
Old 06-30-2007, 04:04 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Congrats to Craig Biggio for his 3,000th hit. Not only did he get his 3,000 but he got five hits out of 6 ABs. That must be a record, has anybody gotten more hits in the game that he got his 3,000th hit. I doubt it, that's style and grace under pressure.

Peter

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  #2  
Old 06-30-2007, 05:44 PM
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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

7 more doubles and he will then pass Brett and move into the top 5 lifetime.

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  #3  
Old 06-30-2007, 05:46 PM
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Posted By: Anonymous

I don't know the answer to your question but being born and raised in Houston, I must say that Craig Biggio is an Icon in this city and has always played the game the way it's suppose to be played. Example, Last night with 2 outs in the bottom of the 11th nobody on and the Rockies leading by a run, he beats out an infield hit to the SS and starts a 2 out rally that culminates in a Carlos Lee walk off Grand Slam. He doesn't beat out the grounder and the game is over.
His first hit was as an Astro and his 3002 hit was as an Astro, which is very unusual these days. He is very high on the list of lifetime doubles and runs scored. He made the All Stars as a catcher and as a 2nd Baseman. He is the most underrated 2nd baseman in baseball history in my opinion.
He's a sure fire HOFer and a class act.
Here's to a good guy, God knows baseball needs them.

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  #4  
Old 06-30-2007, 05:57 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

I think it's safe to say Biggio was the only player to reach his 3000th hit in a five-hit game. And another milestone was set last night, and likely another first.

Frank Thomas hit his 500th homerun, and then was tossed out of the game in the 9th inning for arguing balls and strikes. As he said, "I'm the only player to hit his 500th homerun and be thrown out of the same game."

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  #5  
Old 06-30-2007, 07:24 PM
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Posted By: Steve Dawson

Craig Biggio is the only player with 5 or more hits in the game where they reached 3,000 for their career. George Brett and Tony Gwynn both had 4 hits in their 3,000 hit games.


Steve

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  #6  
Old 06-30-2007, 07:30 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Steve,

That's awesome, thanks for the information.

Peter

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  #7  
Old 06-30-2007, 07:43 PM
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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

End of the 1941 season and the Red Sox are playing a Double-Header.......and, the Yankees had already
clinched the AL pennant.
Ted Williams starts that day with a .3999 BA and his Mgr suggests he sit it out to preserve a .400 stat.

Williams says "hell no" and proceeds to get 6 hits for 8 AB's that day to finish the 1941 season with .406 BA.

That's really what you call....."style and grace under pressure".....it doesn't get any better than that !

TED Z

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  #8  
Old 06-30-2007, 09:05 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I actually heard a debate on the radio today about whether Craig Biggio belongs in the hall of fame...Of course he does. 3,000 is automatic. He's going to be top 5 in doubles, he's never been under suspicion of performance enhancing drugs, he's played with the same team his whole career which is commendable and hard to do in today's market, and I've never heard a bad thing said about Biggio. He always plays hard.

Can anyone remember a year in which there were so many players hitting milestones and difficult accomplishments?

Sosa: 600 HR
Thomas: 500 HR
Biggio: 3,000 Hits
Trevor Hoffman: 500 saves
Tulowitzki: Unassisted Triple Play
Beuhrle: No Hitter
Verlander: No Hitter
Figgins: 6 for 6 in a 9 inning game


Possible milestone
Glavine: 300 wins (3 away)
Pedro Martinez: 3,000 strikeouts (2 away)
Griffey: 600 HR (16 away)
Bonds: all time HR King
Arod, Manny and Thome all should hit 500 HR
Sheffield has a slight chance at 500 HR

The Cubs need 23 wins for 10,000 in their history.


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  #9  
Old 06-30-2007, 09:28 PM
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Posted By: S Gross

Whenever I hear about the 3000 club I think of one thing:

Sam Rice -- 2,987

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  #10  
Old 06-30-2007, 09:34 PM
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Posted By: john/z28jd

Sam Rice was quoted as saying later on in life that if 3000 hits meant anything when he was playing he wouldve kept playing to get it. When he played it was just a round number and no big deal

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  #11  
Old 06-30-2007, 10:09 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

A most interesting stat re the 350 win club:

Clemens is just a win away, Maddux 10 away. It seems most likely Clemens and Maddux will enter the club in consecutive years. Before these two, Warren Spahn won #350 in 1963 and Grover Alexander won his 350th in 1928. So before Clemens in 2007, there had only been two pitchers to reach this milestone in the past 79 years - and now there will be two in two years. In my estimation, we will never see another pitcher reach 350 wins in our lifetime.

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  #12  
Old 06-30-2007, 10:13 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Unless Tom Glavine gets on the juice.

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  #13  
Old 07-01-2007, 06:21 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan- you caught every milestone except one.

Bonds's 750th last night is a milestone, and I think if he hits 6 more he passes somebody, I can't remember who.

Deliberate omission?

And I think there is a chance that after they both retire, Maddux will have more wins than Clemens. This is it for Roger, while Greg will probably go another year or two.

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  #14  
Old 07-01-2007, 08:25 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Everyone keeps mentioning that playing for one team is unusual in this day and age. This is not true. If you look at all the HOFers, I think there are more modern HOFers that played with one team, then pre-war players. Look at all the these greats that played for multiple teams; Ruth, Cobb, Mathewson, Wagner, Young, Collins, Lajoie, etc. Players like Crawford and Johnson, that spent their entire career's with one team were the exception and not the rule back then.

We've probably had more players in the modern era play for one team; Puckett, B Robinson, J Robinson, Yount, Brett, Gwynn, Mantle, DiMaggio, Yaz, Clemete, Gibson, Koufax, Ripken, Biggio, Palmer and several others that I am forgetting.

Jay

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  #15  
Old 07-01-2007, 09:01 AM
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Posted By: Mike (18colt)

The Phillies are rapidly approaching 10,000 losses as a franchise!

(and for next year -- Bonds gets to 3,000 hits?)

MIke (18colt)

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  #16  
Old 07-01-2007, 10:38 AM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Sam Crawford played for the Reds and the Tigers so you can rule him out too. I still think it's more unusual for todays players to stick with one team than it was in the past, and I include Ted Williams, and Joe DiMaggio "in the past".

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  #17  
Old 07-01-2007, 11:16 AM
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Posted By: Ken W.

Who was the guy, who last night, got his 1000th hit, his 200th double, AND hit for the cycle? The fan who caught the HR ball, was kind enough to give it to him.

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  #18  
Old 07-01-2007, 11:27 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Huff? I think I read that he hit for the cycle and his team still lost.

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  #19  
Old 07-01-2007, 12:17 PM
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Posted By: MVSNYC

barry- read his list again...it's there.

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  #20  
Old 07-01-2007, 12:32 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Michael- I can spell but I can't read.

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday- I was a little worn out. Everything went well, and thanks for the good wishes.

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  #21  
Old 07-01-2007, 12:39 PM
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Posted By: MVSNYC

barrie- no worrys my freind...we ar a perfekt matche, cuz i cannat speel!

p.s. what an amazing day in NYC, about 80+ degrees, sunny...i have been walking around the village & soho all day, finally got home, and am watching the yankees on my HD flat screen with a cold beer! does it get any better than that?

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  #22  
Old 07-01-2007, 01:35 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

I too have the Yankee game on and I just poured myself a cold Stella in a frozen mug. A perfect day!

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  #23  
Old 07-01-2007, 02:21 PM
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Posted By: Josh Adams

It is a beautiful day here in Chicago. Just got back from tennis, have an ice cold New Glarus, and watching the Brewers.

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  #24  
Old 07-01-2007, 02:42 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Guys,

The reason for reaching this many milestones in one year may be simpler than you think. There are three factors at play here. First, high salaries mean that players are keeping themselves fit all year round. Second, training methods have improved so players have longer careers. Have there ever been this many pitchers that are 40+. Also, thirdly, because of the continuing history of the game and the contributions of Bill James and SABR, numbers are just more important nowadays. Case in point Barry Bonds is fully away of his place in history and the fact that he is approaching significant milestones. This has to be one of the reasons guys like Randy Johnson and Sammy Sosa continue playing even though they have been on a downhill slide for quite a while.

Peter

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  #25  
Old 07-01-2007, 02:50 PM
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Posted By: Bob

Biggio is about to pass a bunch of HOFers including guys like Al Kaline, Rod Carew, Cap Anson, etc.
He is a no brainer. 3000 hits is still a magic number. How else do you explain Wade Boggs in the Hall?

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  #26  
Old 07-01-2007, 03:11 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Bob,

Besides Wade Boggs, Al Kaline is another guy that would not be in the HOF without 3,000 hits. At least Wade Boggs had the batting titles. The only other plus Al Kaline had was that he had an excellent glove in the outfield.

It will be interesting to see if 500 home runs will remain a magic number. Too bad Dave Kingman didn't get 500 home runs. It would have driven Hall of Fame voters crazy.

How about this question, name me players that have reached magic numbers but who are not likely to get in the Hall of Fame.

How about Curt Schilling, he got over 3,000 strikeouts, is he going into the Hall.

Peter

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  #27  
Old 07-01-2007, 03:18 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

I'd say McGwire and his 583 HR's is the most obvious.

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  #28  
Old 07-01-2007, 04:29 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, had Kaline only had 2900 hits, I still think he'd get in - he did have 10 Gold Gloves and 1600 RBI.

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  #29  
Old 07-01-2007, 05:09 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Guys with milestones who may never get in:

Rafael Palmeiro: 500 HR and 3,000 hits
Tim Raines: 800 Stolen bases
Pete Rose: 4,000 hits


Ed Konetchy is the only player in the top 20 in career triples who is not a member of the hall of fame.

I wonder if Babe Herman had upped his average just a little bit in 1930 and hit .400 if he would be in the Hall of fame?

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  #30  
Old 07-01-2007, 05:40 PM
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Posted By: Steve Dawson

"The Cubs need 23 wins for 10,000 in their history."



That's pushing it I think, Dan.....they'll probably need until next year to get that one!!!!!


Steve

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  #31  
Old 07-01-2007, 07:00 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Tim Raines will be an interesting case. He's the type of overall player that the HOF has always favored. It's all the other baggage he carries with him that is going to cause him problems.

Peter

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  #32  
Old 07-01-2007, 09:52 PM
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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Besides Wade Boggs, Al Kaline is another guy that would not be in the HOF without 3,000 hits. At least Wade Boggs had the batting titles. The only other plus Al Kaline had was that he had an excellent glove in the outfield.

Kaline: 399 home runs, 1,583 RBI, five times among the top-5 in MVP voting, eight times among the top-10 in MVP voting.

Yeah, I guess the only other plus he had was an excellent glove.

Un-freaking-real.

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  #33  
Old 07-01-2007, 10:05 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"Other then the incident, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the show?"

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  #34  
Old 07-02-2007, 07:43 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

How about Bert Blyleven? 3700+ Ks, 287 wins and 3.31 ERA against a league ERA of 3.90 and he pitched in some the unfriendliest parks to pitchers there was. All the various HOF measures used on baseball-reference.com show him above HOF level except in black ink. The guy belongs, plain and simple. He was just unlucky enough to play for bad teams in hitter friendly parks.

Jay

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Old 07-02-2007, 08:40 AM
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Posted By: peter chao

Jay,

I'm convinced that both Bert Blyleven and Jim Kaat will get in, with some players it just takes longer. Both Ron Santo and Gil Hodges look like they will get in, it may just take them a while.

Peter

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  #36  
Old 07-02-2007, 08:49 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jay, I agree about Blyleven. Same with Tommy John. Falling a few wins short of an artificial milestone should not prevent induction into the Hall.

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Old 07-05-2007, 10:59 AM
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Posted By: peter chao

Jay,

I agree with you, Blyleven should get in the Hall. The problem is people do not identify him with a single team in particular. When you think about the upper tier Hall of Famers, you normally identify them with specific teams. For instance when you think about Babe Ruth, he's a Yankee. Yes, he pitched for the Boston Red Sox, but his best years were with the Yankees.

Peter

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  #38  
Old 07-05-2007, 01:53 PM
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Posted By: CN

I was lucky to play with Craig in High School, I graduated a year ahead of him at Kings Park High School in Suffolk County NY. As a High Schooler he was the best football player on Long Island which encompasses about 3 million people. He played Q.B. and would run the Quarterback Option about 60% of the time and his rushing average was over 10 yards per carry. I remember talking to him while in H.S. and he decided to play baseball at Seton Hall instead of Football because even though he was better in football he figured that based on his size he had a better chance at making the pros in Baseball. He also played catcher back then because he told me that it gave him an advantage towards the majors because back then not many catchers were fast and hit for high averages. He told me he could always switch positions if he ever became established. I find this amazing that as a junior in High School he could see that far ahead. CN

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  #39  
Old 07-05-2007, 02:35 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

CN,

That's interesting, you knew Craig from way back. However, what you said is not that surprising considering the type of ballplayer he turned out to be. Biggio is the thinking man's ballplayer and excels at "small ball," he does all the little things that don't necessary show up in the boxscore.

For instance he avoids grounding into double plays. He gets on base often and is normally among the leaders in getting hit by the pitch. He's good at laying down bunts.

Biggio's thoughtful approach to his career, is the same type of approach he uses when he's out on the baseball diamond.

Peter

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Old 07-05-2007, 03:07 PM
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Posted By: John H.

"I'm convinced that both Bert Blyleven and Jim Kaat will get in, with some players it just takes longer. Both Ron Santo and Gil Hodges look like they will get in, it may just take them a while."

Like a while as in a Veteran's Committee while, methinks.

John

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  #41  
Old 07-05-2007, 03:30 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

"Biggio is the thinking man's ballplayer and excels at "small ball," he does all the little things that don't necessary show up in the boxscore."

Yeah, other than the minor detail of 3000 hits.

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Old 07-05-2007, 03:42 PM
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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Jeff,

Every one of those base hits showed up in a box score. It's much easier to pontificate about nebulous "little things" that are harder to define and value and therefore harder to debate.

And, like Al Kaline, it's a good thing that Biggio has a good glove, because that's the only other thing he has going for him ... other than those 3,000 or so hits.

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Old 07-05-2007, 03:48 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Biggio has about 650 doubles and nearly 1000 extra base hits. That sounds like pretty big ball to me. But I agree he's a smart player and he's going to the HOF.

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Old 07-05-2007, 04:09 PM
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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Just my opinion, but "small ball" is one of the most over-used cliches, mainly employed by sports-radio talk-show hosts and managers who want fans and GMs to think their team "knows the fundamentals," "will do whatever it takes to win" and will "make the most of the talent we have."

Not to mention, they'll take it one game at a time.

It's great if you have a player who can flat-out hit and also can lay down a bunt or move a runner over from second to third with a ground ball to the right side with no one out. But given the choice of a "fundamentally sound" guy who hits .250 or a .300-hitting, extra-base machine who cares little about bunting, I'll take the masher.

In other words, you can have Eckstein, I'll take Pujols.

So yeah, it's great that Biggio gets hit with a lot of pitches and knows how to bunt. But the bottom line is the guy can hit. All that other stuff is complementary to his value, not defining.

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Old 07-05-2007, 04:23 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Baseball has a long history of using cliches. Bunting a runner over is a basic fundamental of the game, and every player should know how to do it. You can call it small ball, or you can simply call it baseball.

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  #46  
Old 07-05-2007, 04:50 PM
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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Agreed that every player should know how to bunt (although one could make a sound argument against trading an out to move a runner from first base to second).

My point is that while knowing how to bunt, hitting behind a runner, etc. are fine complementary skills, if you have a team composed primarily of guys who do "the little things" well but hit .250 with little power, you're going to lose a whole lot more games than you'll win.

Unless you've used the way-back machine and are playing for John McGraw.

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Old 07-05-2007, 06:44 PM
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Posted By: peter chao

Biggio is good at "small ball," but he also has decent power, as pointed out earlier. He may end up in the top five all-time for doubles.

Him and Pete Rose would make my all-time team as utility men.

Peter

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Old 07-05-2007, 06:54 PM
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Default O/T For Stat Guys Only, I'm sure SABR guys are already looking it up

Posted By: bill

ozzie smith
what on earth is he doin in the hall of fame

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Old 07-05-2007, 07:31 PM
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Default O/T For Stat Guys Only, I'm sure SABR guys are already looking it up

Posted By: jay behrens

I'll take Puljos over Eckstein too, but there are a whole hell of a lot more players of caliber of Eckstein than there are of Puljos.

It's pretty much a much no brainer that you want the a power hitter if he hits .300 instead of a Punch and Judy hitter. Remove the power element, and you still want the .300 hitter over .250 hitter, even if the .250 hitter can bunt better. So what exactly was the point of your comparision?

Actually, if I'm the GM, I want the guy with better OBA.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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