Why the Private Auction Leon?

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Posted By: Jay Miller 

Rightly or wrongly, I generally associate private auctions with less than honorable sellers. Since I know this is not the case here I was wondering why you chose this format.

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Posted By: leon

I have stated it before on the board. How many times have any of us seen someone we know bidding on something and we change our plans because of it? How many times have you been emailed because someone sees you bidding on something and they want to offer you the same or want you not to bid etc.....? How many of us see something for sale, it gets good bids, we have one we want to sell, and then email the underbidders, or worse yet the high bidder, to get them to buy ours instead of the one that is running. I have never personally done that but have been approached by others several times on all of the above. I don't mind bidding in Seth's private auctions, SCGaynor's private auctions, and other reputable folks private auctions.....those are my thoughts...good or bad I believe they are justified......take care and best regards.....

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Just wondering why the change of heart as you haven't done this before. I wouldn't think there is a risk of someone going around you on an item like this. I just think some people view a private auction as a screen behind which shill bidding can take place. By the way, Seth's latest auctions, to his credit, have full disclosure.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Leon you are my hero but I agree with Jay on this. If I see a private auction, I sense a shill. Knowing you, naturally I know better but if you email me directly, I will shock you a tad with a known shiller. An oddball rare item is not going to get underbidders approached or some of the other things you stated. Though your point of seeing who is bidding and then not bidding because of that person, seems like a valid one that I never thought of. I am always learning. my best, dan.

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Posted By: leon

We'll see how the auction goes. I have given the "private auction" deal much thought. There is a great chance that it will not even meet the fairly high reserve. If it does someone will get a great card. If it does not then it will go back into my armored igloo.....I really like the card but do need some cash for personal reasons....if it doesn't sell I will do something else....again, I assure any of you there is no funny business going on....and BTW, if any of you have a bigger problem with it then there might be a problem with yourself.....I know some things about folks that I can not discuss but have been totally screwed before...and for all of those that know about it, mums the word....later.....

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Posted By: scgaynor

I have some experience in this area so I will throw in my two cents. For about a year I ran about 50-100 private auctions per month on ebay. I recently stopped, but only for a change of pace and to see if there was a significant change in bidding habits (there has not been). I may very well resume using them in the future.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are some bidder who will ONLY bid in private auctions. It has been my experience that people who have some of the nicest collections, don't like to advertise the fact that they have nice collections, and are very discreet in their bidding.

I would advise using private auctions on items where there is a close knit group of collectors who don't like to bid against each other. I had a problem in the past with collectors of high end Cuban cards colluding with each other to keep the prices low. When I began posting them using the private auction feature, they were bidding against each other with out the others knowlege and the prices were more realisitic.

I am sure that shill bidding is a problem with many sellers using the Private auction feature, but the only thing that you can be sure of by not bidding in a private auction, is that you won't win.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Gentlemen (and lady), let's review the basic rules of this thing of ours:

If you know the auctioneer and trust him/her, don't worry about the private auction designation. Every auction except eBay is private, unless you are in the room bidding live. I don't hear much concern about Mastro shilling for example, yet every auction they run is "private". I really don't think a good auctioneer goes bad when they shift formats, but an A$$ remains one in any format.

If you want an item for "X" price, bid "X" price as your maximum and do not worry about whether you were shilled if you get it for your max.

If you want to make sure no one knows you are bidding on an item, subscribe to a sniping service, bid your max and don't worry about whether you were shilled.

I live by these rules, I "die" by them too.

I think that the concerns over collusion are realistic to a degree. I do respect the anti-shill faction's view, though. While I have experienced first-hand the effect of potential bidders agreeing in advance not to bid on certain items, and also had the situation where the bidders decide not to bid because a buddy is the current high bidder, let's not forget that it is a very big world out there--if a quality card is way too low, you and I can divvy up the bidding all we want but someone else is just as likely as not to come along and jack us both. The real issue is one of not receiving the absolute top maximum bid on an item because of seller collusion. There I think that the private auctioneers have a point, but, frankly, if the item is such that there is real money at stake because of collusion and there is real concern over private auctions, take the item to an auctioneer.